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Obesity, T2 and my right to eat the diet that will heal me

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by zand, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Winnie53

    Winnie53 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    In the middle of a huge project at the moment, but really enjoying reading what's being posted, though don't have the time to read the links at the moment. Will do so when I have more time to get completely caught up with you all.
     
  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Strange ...as quite a lot of people say they have benefitted from this archaeologists take on T2.. hey ho..
     
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  3. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Like I say, why twist the archaeology to beef up lchf when lchf stands on its own anyway.

    If I wanted to be more sure on the topic I would probably want to speak to a guy like this:

    https://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/archaeology/people/academics/barton/hb

    “I specialise in Southeast Asian prehistory, the archaeology and anthropology of hunters & gatherers, prehistoric diet, hunter-gatherer management of wild plants, vegecultures, and the origins of tropical agriculture. My doctoral work was an investigation of surface lithic scatters in the Simpson Desert of western Queensland. In that work I approached the analysis of lithic scatters through the theoretical frameworks of Human Behavioural Ecology and Technological Organisation. I also specialise in the analysis of organic residues on artefacts and am an expert in the analysis of ancient starch granules as an indicator of prehistoric plant use that is opening windows not just into human diet, but also that of primates, past and present.”
     
    #203 Listlad, Aug 31, 2019 at 3:06 AM
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  4. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Does the anti lchf conspiracy really extend to the National Geographic magazine? The more I read and hear, it would seem that the anti lchf conspiracy must exist in all academic circles too. Surely not?
     
    #204 Listlad, Aug 31, 2019 at 3:09 AM
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  5. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    #205 Listlad, Aug 31, 2019 at 5:26 AM
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  6. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they would take their references from standard sources.

    I learned in my Karate days not to "appeal to authority", this is how I achieved the British championship. I know the stuff coming out of Oxford (UK) and Harvard is garbage, National Geographic are just another name, with humans behind it, now get me some superior aliens and I will accept if shown, their authority; at this stage I will not listen to non low carb Doctor, Dietition, etc for example, I would rather trust for my health a £15.00 blood glucose monitor, would I be wrong after almost 5 years of study and real world testing.

    I have a reference on this site where I said I wanted to do less meat, this is how easy it is to believe everything out there (needless to say this is no longer my thought).

    Here's a common sense example, before getting Type 2, I was an Omnivore, so meat and fish was in my diet, now I eat more meat and my Type 2 is reversed and my biomarkers are improved, - this is true of over 90% approximately of reversed Type 2's who at the least continue to eat meat, have you seen the biomarkers of those who take part in Carnivore Corner, some have HbA1cs of 29 to low 30's, low crp and insulin. Another common sense observation when I was growing up hardly anyone was fat / overweight (perhaps a Gran or Grandad), meat and dairy were pre-dominant, I can even remember getting milk at school everyday - those days liver and bacon, steak and kidney pie, home cooking mainly, cheap meat cuts / stews, beef dripping, lard. I talk to my Father In Law and know the truth about the foods of his childhood, I know my wifes Grandad used to get a single Orange for Christmas as a treat.

    I can't recall the name of the trial but when vegetarians and meat eaters who shop at whole food stores are compared, there are no differences between predicted outcomes.

    The same so called accepted facts are why statins are mainstream, low fat high carb fruit and veg is great (I believe low GI are alright).

    This is a kicker that is still a fact:
    Screenshot_20190831-082350_Google.jpg
    So still chronic and progressive, should I believe this or my avatar.
     
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  7. Dr Snoddy

    Dr Snoddy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    He can keep his tiny hands off NZ.
     
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  8. Bluecarnation

    Bluecarnation · Member

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    The problem with science is that research is always changing and we are told to change as new theories are developed, we need to use common sense and sensible eating.
     
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  9. Mike D

    Mike D Type 2 · Expert

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    Theories? Odd ....
     
  10. Scott-C

    Scott-C Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Statistics aren't really my thing, so I'll just leave this here:

    https://nutritionalrevolution.org/2019/02/10/macronutrients-part-1/

    The author has looked at USDA data, which is derived from what shops in America have been selling, and he reckons it indicates that far from the populace heeding government guidelines, they've been buying and eating more fat and fewer carbs, and attributes rising obesity and T2 to that.

    I don't have a view on this but found it an interesting approach and will leave it to the statisticians to discuss.

    8.png

    15.png
     
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    #210 Scott-C, Aug 31, 2019 at 11:58 AM
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  11. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I do wonder if the rise of trans fats in previous decades, and now interestified fats, has some effect on our bodies that other fats do not. The above graph would make more sense if that it the case.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5497165/
    Article title: What are interesterified fats and should we be worried about them in our diet?
     
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  12. Dr Snoddy

    Dr Snoddy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    One possibility is that we are just consuming more food faster. And if that sounds glib it is possible to eat a 700kcal burger in under 5 minutes. Only limited chewing is required and the brain has little time to register that chewing and swallowing have taken place. Meals prepared from scratch using fresh ingredients have little processing and usually require more chewing and swallowing.
     
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  13. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    This is why nothing can be taken at face value. I am not saying my facts are better than those presented, but I see this more often:
    MeatBreakdown.jpg

    Why are nuts included with meat, that's the first problem. Do we really believe grains are down. Beef consumption has absolutely gone down, poultry has gone up. I believe many who are optimising on Keto / Carnivore see poultry as pleasant but inferior to beef / lamp / oxtail and similar i.e. red meat, mainly due to the Omega 6 count.

    It is disingenuous to claim that fats have gone up. Another slight of hand, many of us do not consider vegetable (seed) oils, canola, margarine, and the like as fats. For completeness for newbies the accepted wisdom for those on a LCHF and similar are that natural fats in meat (preferably grass finished), butter, ghee, lard, beef tallow, coconut / mct oil and then perhaps avocado oil are what are deemed as "real" fats.

    We know that the current standard diets are over 60% plant / sugar / vegetable oil based and a PHD is not required to prove this practically. If you look at (generalising, not including "healthier stuff)) breakfast this is some sugary grain based cereal or bread / toast with something like Nutella, jam, a breakfast bar, smoothie, usually something sweet and a sweet drink (so mainly flour, vegetable oil and sugar), mainly carb based. Lunch is something like a bagel, panini, bread something, pastry, chips, potato, crisps, fast food, milk chocolate, a sweet fruit (mainly flour, carbs), fizzy drink or similar. Dinner - potato based something, rice, pasta, ready meal fast food, sauce, meat / fish (maybe processed, breaded), pizza, Chinese, Indian, alcohol, fruit juice (flour, veg oil, sugar, carbs). I have noticed in the UK and across Europe when I travel, that double carbs or more are often used within a meal i.e. rice and chips with a meal. I have missed out snacks, as any who has bought petrol knows them all.
     
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  14. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    I know you wild colonial boys, you would have his guts for garters! :)
     
  15. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    I'd love to know what those fats are.
    We would have most animal fats included in the meat and eggs section
    Dairy will have milk, butter and cream.
    So that can only leave vegetable oils presumably. Toxic, factory produced inflammation triggers.

    I see Mr Bass kindly doesn't consider that.
     
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    #215 bulkbiker, Aug 31, 2019 at 4:58 PM
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  16. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    In my limited experience, people round here dont think of any seed or nut oils, or spreads, or olive oil as fats. They refer to fats as lard, butter, suet, and the lovely tasty bits on meat (if you can find meat with fat on round here)
     
  17. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Eating bread and dripping never made me fat, but neither did rice pudding made with whole milk or fish and chips cooked in lard.

    You would have said most kids looked undernourished in the 1950's.
    D.
     
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  18. Dr Snoddy

    Dr Snoddy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. We wild colonial gals would have more than his guts!
     
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  19. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Expert

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    I ate that stuff as well, 'cept the fish and chips were done in dripping, bread pudding was a firm favourite if we had any stale bread.

    War and post war time rationing in the UK kept people alive, but I can remember being hungry as a kid still
     
  20. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I don’t disagree with a lot of what you are saying in your post.

    I do question the bit about when exactly ancient man started eating carbohydrates. The rest I am comfortable with. On going carnivore, I choose not to for a number of reasons. If I need to at some point then I will.
     
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