Covid/Coronavirus and diabetes - the numbers

liza_h

Active Member
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27
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
I was similar although it took approx 40 years for my Thyroid to sort itself out and I have been on Thyroxine for 7 years. After my body nearly shut down in my late teens when I went on a very low calorie diet (similar to the Newcastle diet) an endocrinologist told me that I was one of his few patients who could truly blame their metabolism for their weight problems.
It seems that you have had an extreme version of thyroid problems. I really feel for you as the past 10 years with a simpler version of being under-active have been challenging enough so I cannot imagine the difficulties you've had over 40 years. I'm surprised that you weren't given Thyroxine earlier.

I would fall out with your endocrinologist regarding his "one of the few" statement. I have studied/qualified in nutrition and sports science and throughout my adult life I kept very fit and active until my thyroid issues so I'm used to tracking calorie intake, expenditure and so on.

At a TSH of 2 and above I cannot lose weight. Above 3 and I gain weight even in calorie deficit. When I reach TSH of nearly 3 I begin to have other underactive symptoms, which include insomnia, extreme tiredness/lethargy and muscle cramps all of which effect my ability to exercise. I also get uncontrollable carb cravings which would lead to more weight gain.

I've had the doctors with the attitude that my problems haven't been due to my underactive thyroid. I've had doctors who won't give an increase in T4 until I go above TSH 5 - because they don't believe my symptoms. One doctor even told me another patient has a much higher TSH than me and he's fine... as if we're all machines and all function in exactly the same way.

I can spend 2 years between TSH 3-5 in which time I gain even more weight, lose muscle mass etc. I know because I studied sport/nutrition and can track it. These doctors don't know my sports/nutrition background. They just see an ageing overweight woman and go by the figures on the computer and policies determined by politics.

I feel that your endo is another "expert" who wants to blame the patient because it's the easy answer, instead of accepting that for some of us (me for example) a small amount of T4 can make a big difference. I am very sensitive to really small amounts of T4. Luckily I convert well to T3. Small amounts of T4 make a big difference to my health and ability to lose weight/ keep weight stable. I'm sure that there are many who need to take T4 much sooner than we do.

I spoke to a more sympathetic GP last summer who gave me a small raise in T4 and I can titrate my dose to my symptoms. This has enabled me to lose over 2 stone, exercise again and lower my blood glucose levels while keeping my TSH between 0.5-2. I've decided going forward that I will have to continue to follow my thyroid symptoms.
 

Max68

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Messages
751
What is becoming even more concerning, forgetting mortality rates for the moment, seems to be the way Covid is leaving an awful lot of people with post Covid complications. It's becoming apparent that this disease affects the whole body, not just the lungs, and according to a discussion on GMB yesterday it's suggested that "half" of those recovered, regardless of underlying conditions, are suffering weeks/months later with various symptoms such as persistent shortness of breath etc and other complications including heart, liver and kidney issues. Needs a lot more investigation and statistics but it certainly paints a picture that it's far from a disease that you either get it and recover or you get it and require hospital care as the two main patient categories.
 
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MrsA2

Expert
Messages
5,574
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
It seems that you have had an extreme version of thyroid problems. I really feel for you as the past 10 years with a simpler version of being under-active have been challenging enough so I cannot imagine the difficulties you've had over 40 years. I'm surprised that you weren't given Thyroxine earlier.

I would fall out with your endocrinologist regarding his "one of the few" statement. I have studied/qualified in nutrition and sports science and throughout my adult life I kept very fit and active until my thyroid issues so I'm used to tracking calorie intake, expenditure and so on.

At a TSH of 2 and above I cannot lose weight. Above 3 and I gain weight even in calorie deficit. When I reach TSH of nearly 3 I begin to have other underactive symptoms, which include insomnia, extreme tiredness/lethargy and muscle cramps all of which effect my ability to exercise. I also get uncontrollable carb cravings which would lead to more weight gain.

I've had the doctors with the attitude that my problems haven't been due to my underactive thyroid. I've had doctors who won't give an increase in T4 until I go above TSH 5 - because they don't believe my symptoms. One doctor even told me another patient has a much higher TSH than me and he's fine... as if we're all machines and all function in exactly the same way.

I can spend 2 years between TSH 3-5 in which time I gain even more weight, lose muscle mass etc. I know because I studied sport/nutrition and can track it. These doctors don't know my sports/nutrition background. They just see an ageing overweight woman and go by the figures on the computer and policies determined by politics.

I feel that your endo is another "expert" who wants to blame the patient because it's the easy answer, instead of accepting that for some of us (me for example) a small amount of T4 can make a big difference. I am very sensitive to really small amounts of T4. Luckily I convert well to T3. Small amounts of T4 make a big difference to my health and ability to lose weight/ keep weight stable. I'm sure that there are many who need to take T4 much sooner than we do.

I spoke to a more sympathetic GP last summer who gave me a small raise in T4 and I can titrate my dose to my symptoms. This has enabled me to lose over 2 stone, exercise again and lower my blood glucose levels while keeping my TSH between 0.5-2. I've decided going forward that I will have to continue to follow my thyroid symptoms.
@liza_h
Hi Liza
I work (or think I work) on just half a thyroid, unmedicated. How do you get your TSH measured? On the rare occasions mine is done I'm just told "in normal range"
 

HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,465
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@liza_h
Hi Liza
I work (or think I work) on just half a thyroid, unmedicated. How do you get your TSH measured? On the rare occasions mine is done I'm just told "in normal range"
I too only have half, unmedicated. They should measure tsh and t4 at a minimum. T3 is good to be checked too. And ask for the actual numbers not their summary of “normal”. I ask for it to be tested every so often (at least annual) as my surgeon explained to me it’ll work til it doesn’t. Might be next month or 10 or more years time. This way I know what’s typical for me should I ever need to convince them a change is not “my” normal. Post op my tsh doubled but t4 remained the same. I guess the remaining half works double time now to maintain the same levels. Very hard to find info for those who’ve had semi/hemi/
partial thyroidectomy

You should be able to get past results too if you sign up to online results that all English surgeries should give you access to if requested. If they don’t, ask for printouts.
 

Daphne917

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,320
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
It seems that you have had an extreme version of thyroid problems. I really feel for you as the past 10 years with a simpler version of being under-active have been challenging enough so I cannot imagine the difficulties you've had over 40 years. I'm surprised that you weren't given Thyroxine earlier.

I would fall out with your endocrinologist regarding his "one of the few" statement. I have studied/qualified in nutrition and sports science and throughout my adult life I kept very fit and active until my thyroid issues so I'm used to tracking calorie intake, expenditure and so on.

At a TSH of 2 and above I cannot lose weight. Above 3 and I gain weight even in calorie deficit. When I reach TSH of nearly 3 I begin to have other underactive symptoms, which include insomnia, extreme tiredness/lethargy and muscle cramps all of which effect my ability to exercise. I also get uncontrollable carb cravings which would lead to more weight gain.

I've had the doctors with the attitude that my problems haven't been due to my underactive thyroid. I've had doctors who won't give an increase in T4 until I go above TSH 5 - because they don't believe my symptoms. One doctor even told me another patient has a much higher TSH than me and he's fine... as if we're all machines and all function in exactly the same way.

I can spend 2 years between TSH 3-5 in which time I gain even more weight, lose muscle mass etc. I know because I studied sport/nutrition and can track it. These doctors don't know my sports/nutrition background. They just see an ageing overweight woman and go by the figures on the computer and policies determined by politics.

I feel that your endo is another "expert" who wants to blame the patient because it's the easy answer, instead of accepting that for some of us (me for example) a small amount of T4 can make a big difference. I am very sensitive to really small amounts of T4. Luckily I convert well to T3. Small amounts of T4 make a big difference to my health and ability to lose weight/ keep weight stable. I'm sure that there are many who need to take T4 much sooner than we do.

I spoke to a more sympathetic GP last summer who gave me a small raise in T4 and I can titrate my dose to my symptoms. This has enabled me to lose over 2 stone, exercise again and lower my blood glucose levels while keeping my TSH between 0.5-2. I've decided going forward that I will have to continue to follow my thyroid symptoms.
In fairness the endocrinologist did say that it would take a while for my thyroid to decide what it was going to as 3 blood tests gave 3 different results - under, over and borderline. Like him various GPs over the years have been convinced that it was my thyroid and my blood was tested bi-annually however the results were usually borderline or, if under, a second blood test would be either borderline or over although I had all the symptoms of hypothyroidism. About 6 years ago I had two blood tests one month apart with finally gave them the diagnosis that I, and they, knew would happen eventually. Since starting treatment I have lost 30lbs but this weight loss has stalled however I do feel a lot better.
 

DavidGrahamJones

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Messages
3,263
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Newspapers
Related to diabetes and post Covid19 symptoms, but not necessarily following on from what has already been mentioned. It would seem that where the virus has caused a lot of problems after recovery is where the virus has affected the beta cells in the pancreas and as that would suggest people are being diagnosed with Type I diabetes.

I'm sure that the videos creator, Dr Campbell, would like to see more info on this but you might like to check out this video, the diabetes bit starts at about 4 minutes 40 seconds.
.

I've been following this man's videos since the beginning and he's well qualified along with being careful about what he says.
 
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Max68

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Messages
751
Related to diabetes and post Covid19 symptoms, but not necessarily following on from what has already been mentioned. It would seem that where the virus has caused a lot of problems after recovery is where the virus has affected the beta cells in the pancreas and as that would suggest people are being diagnosed with Type I diabetes.

What I like about Dr John, as well as his pleasant demeanour, is his ability to apologise and correct himself or any studies/information he shares, if it turns out to be incorrect, or if he was mistaken. Members of the Government take note!! ;)
 

Max68

Well-Known Member
Messages
751
Related to diabetes and post Covid19 symptoms, but not necessarily following on from what has already been mentioned. It would seem that where the virus has caused a lot of problems after recovery is where the virus has affected the beta cells in the pancreas and as that would suggest people are being diagnosed with Type I diabetes.

I'm sure that the videos creator, Dr Campbell, would like to see more info on this but you might like to check out this video, the diabetes bit starts at about 4 minutes 40 seconds.
.

I've been following this man's videos since the beginning and he's well qualified along with being careful about what he says.

He mentioned some interesting stuff last night about the role of statins as a possible treatment. However if high blood pressure and diabetes are "risks" one would assume a proportion of those with diabetes and high BP might well already be on statins ??

Some more stuff in the news today about the role of blood groups in more severe disease with Covid. Sadly I've looked through all my blood tests and can't see my blood group!! :banghead::banghead:
 

Mr_Pot

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,573
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
He mentioned some interesting stuff last night about the role of statins as a possible treatment. However if high blood pressure and diabetes are "risks" one would assume a proportion of those with diabetes and high BP might well already be on statins ??

Some more stuff in the news today about the role of blood groups in more severe disease with Covid. Sadly I've looked through all my blood tests and can't see my blood group!! :banghead::banghead:
I remember that my mother was AB- and my father was group O but I have no idea of my blood group - when do people get told?
 

urbanracer

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Not being able to eat as many chocolate digestives as I used to.
He mentioned some interesting stuff last night about the role of statins as a possible treatment. However if high blood pressure and diabetes are "risks" one would assume a proportion of those with diabetes and high BP might well already be on statins ??

Some more stuff in the news today about the role of blood groups in more severe disease with Covid. Sadly I've looked through all my blood tests and can't see my blood group!! :banghead::banghead:

Blood groups A, B and AB show a statistical disposition toward the development of diabetes,-

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/12/141218210021.htm

... so bearing in mind that there seems to be a high number of diabetics in the fatalities I would not be surprised to see correlation with blood groups.
 

HSSS

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7,465
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If you’ve ever donated blood it’ll be on the book or card they give you. Unless you’ve had surgery it’s unlikely you’ve ever been tested. And possible your gp notes won’t contain it even if you have.

sadly I’m in the “wrong” group to find any reassurance in this information
 

Krystyna23040

Expert
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7,064
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
If you’ve ever donated blood it’ll be on the book or card they give you. Unless you’ve had surgery it’s unlikely you’ve ever been tested. And possible your gp notes won’t contain it even if you have.

Sadly I’m in the “wrong” group to find any reassurance in this information
Unfortunately I am also in the wrong group as I am B+ according to my blood donor card.
 

lindisfel

Expert
Messages
5,659
So thats alright then, if the 800 plus deaths from Covid 19 during the week amount to a plus on an accountants balance sheet!

Surely the fact that deaths are down due to a mild winter doesnt lessen the pain of those seeing a relative die fighting for breath from covid 19?

Humans are just not counters to be dismissed, because by dying they bring deaths up to a so called 'normal' level.
D.
 

urbanracer

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bulkbiker

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Difficult to reconcile a 1 week fall of 65 with ONS data showing there have now been 63k excess deaths since the end of January.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...s-in-uk-under-coronavirus-lockdown-pass-63000

If the pandemic is as deadly as oft reported though then there surely should be more deaths than average every single week?

That seeing a lower than average week is moderately surprising was the point I and the article were trying to make.

In a thread about COVID the numbers I thought this was relevant.

Please delete if I was wrong to think that.
 

urbanracer

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Not being able to eat as many chocolate digestives as I used to.
If the pandemic is as deadly as oft reported though then there surely should be more deaths than average every single week?

That seeing a lower than average week is moderately surprising was the point I and the article were trying to make.

In a thread about COVID the numbers I thought this was relevant.

Please delete if I was wrong to think that.

Is it really surprising ? If one were to make the argument that some of those who died recently would have died later this year, then you might expect the weekly average to dip at some point now that there is at least some degree of control over the transmission.