COVID vaccination

jenny707

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What I would like to know is if the vaccine has been tested on people with health issues like diabetes and in my case asthma as usually testing is done on young and youngish people also has the vaccine been tested on the really elderly over 80 my mum is 87 and stepdad 95 they are fit and reasonably healthy how do we know if the vaccine will make them poorly and in my case my breathing worse
 
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Ymdawd

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Type of diabetes
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What I would like to know is if the vaccine has been tested on people with health issues like diabetes and in my case asthma as usually testing is done on young and youngish people also has the vaccine been tested on the really elderly over 80 my mum is 87 and stepdad 95 they are fit and reasonably healthy how do we know if the vaccine will make them poorly and in my case my breathing worse

I am 70 years old and diabetic to boot but I will not have the covid vaccine until several million doses have been administered. It is only then that the more obscure side effects are revealed.
 

Ymdawd

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What I would like to know is if the vaccine has been tested on people with health issues like diabetes and in my case asthma as usually testing is done on young and youngish people also has the vaccine been tested on the really elderly over 80 my mum is 87 and stepdad 95 they are fit and reasonably healthy how do we know if the vaccine will make them poorly and in my case my breathing worse

Simply you don’t.
 

Ymdawd

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I am also 70 and diabetic, but I want to be alive while waiting for those million doses to complete. Bring it on I say.

If you want an example of what I mean about unexpected adverse side effects may i mention ‘ thalidomide’.? That was nasty indeed.

Simply put there is no shortcuts in drug safety. Several years work cannot be compressed into a couple of months.
I respect your right to “ bring it on as you say “ but i prefer to be a little more conservative.
 

JudiP

Active Member
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I am anti vax and I don’t care what you think!!!!
I am sick and tired of seeing people that are anti vax getting slandered on Facebook.
We have good reason to feel this way and simply attacking us or bad mouthing us is not going to change our minds.
We will not be silenced!!!
I for one will never have another one again. No chance, I don’t care what you say to try and convince me, I’ve fallen for that trap too many times before.
They are absolutely the worst make of vacuum cleaner.
.
GTECH all the way for me!!!
.
Hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
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That’s brilliant - I was fooled right to the end!
 

Oldvatr

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If you want an example of what I mean about unexpected adverse side effects may i mention ‘ thalidomide’.? That was nasty indeed.

Simply put there is no shortcuts in drug safety. Several years work cannot be compressed into a couple of months.
I respect your right to “ bring it on as you say “ but i prefer to be a little more conservative.
I am surprised that you consider Covid- SARS2 to be safer and less harmful. I could put my head in the clouds too, since recent research is showing that most infections now come from the 16-40 year age group and that the 15-17 year age group is also showing a rising trend in asymptomatic carriers, At 70 I am well distanced from them, or so I could think, But that thinking is no guarantee that I am right. Or that I am safe, Simply put, there is no safety in Covid either. We know Covid is no magic carpet ride that our age and comorbidity presuppose us to being severely harmed by it, and that is quite clearly proven by the statistics. The 60.7 million sample pool (and rising) shows this to be a known cause of death.

PS the Zikka virus produces similar birth defects as thalidomide. Another unfriendly virus that was probably not made in a test tube.
 

DCUKMod

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I reversed my Type 2
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I see those very clever bods, in Leicester are recruiting for a COVID Vaccine trial, to run 2 years and 3 months.
 

Oldvatr

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I see those very clever bods, in Leicester are recruiting for a COVID Vaccine trial, to run 2 years and 3 months.
Three pregnancies? The covid is doubling every 3 months. so our current 60m cases worldwide will become 960m by the end of next year unless we change things.
 

DCUKMod

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Three pregnancies? The covid is doubling every 3 months. so our current 60m cases worldwide will become 960m by the end of next year unless we change things.

I don't quite see anything relevant in your statement.

I would like to think we are all open minded to the fact there are many vaccines in development. In my view, it is likely over time that there will be several vaccines licensed, over time. This trial could be for COVID, but for protection by a different mechanism to those currently in the headline.

At this moment, I don't have any detail on the trial, but I,can possibly find out more tomorrow.
 

Oldvatr

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I don't quite see anything relevant in your statement.

I would like to think we are all open minded to the fact there are many vaccines in development. In my view, it is likely over time that there will be several vaccines licensed, over time. This trial could be for COVID, but for protection by a different mechanism to those currently in the headline.

At this moment, I don't have any detail on the trial, but I,can possibly find out more tomorrow.
There has been severe kickback against vaccines because they are not being tested with a full range of conditions in the sample, and thalidomide is usually the main mention. The trial period of 2 years 3 months happens to cover the possibility I mentioned.
Of course, there is a solid reason why this condition should be excluded from the testing base, and also why the test sample qualification required healthy volunteers. It would have negated the trial if sick people were included since that would skew the results. I note that none of the people calling out on this feels inclined to volunteer their services for the sake of mankind.
 

Dianemacfaden

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I have had a delightful conversation with my friends this evening about the COVID vaccination. It was interesting to see everyone’s perspective. We were split in the middle between taking it immediately and not taking it at all.
I can’t understand why anyone would not have the vaccine! I have had type 1 nearly 50 years and been having annual flu vaccines for years with no problems so I will be first in the queue when they are rolled out.
 

bulkbiker

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19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
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I can’t understand why anyone would not have the vaccine! I have had type 1 nearly 50 years and been having annual flu vaccines for years with no problems so I will be first in the queue when they are rolled out.

Because they have been hastily created.
Use for the most part completely long term untested new scientific processes.
Don't appear to provide a whole lot of "protection".

Need I go on?
 
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Ymdawd

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I can’t understand why anyone would not have the vaccine! I have had type 1 nearly 50 years and been having annual flu vaccines for years with no problems so I will be first in the queue when they are rolled out.

Flu vaccines are fine haven been given to many millions of people with no major problems. The only major problem.? to have been shown is not to give them to people known to be allergic to eggs. Training for pharmacists includes CPR training in case of an almost theoretical possibility of anaphylactic shock - a useful bit of training in other situations too.

Would anticipate similar situation with covid vaccine. Some will clearly be comfortable having it right away. Some will prefer to wait a while and some will not want it at all. I prefer the middle scenario/option.
 

Oldvatr

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Because they have been hastily created.
Use for the most part completely long term untested new scientific processes.
Don't appear to provide a whole lot of "protection".

Need I go on?
According to that paper that was posted earlier on in this thread, and from a reputable archive, they started investigating the base vehicle for the new vaccines in 2015. The technology is new but not hurried as you claim. Within a week or two of the Wuhan outbreak starting, and before the covid hit the rest of the world, the Chinese shared the complete genome for the covid, so it is clear they knew all about this strain, It is the same family as the SARS and MERS viruses so again there was prior experience in dealing with it. What has been rushed is the bootup the jacksy to get commercial labs online, and this is where the learning curve starts in earnest. All potential candidates for licensing have all undergone the usual 3 stage trials, with the required complement of participants meeting previously defined criteria that have been used with success for many other vaccines, so the protocols have been adhered to but are not yet complete. We await publication and peer review before independent panel grants the licence, again standard practice. Indeed there are problems with the Astrazenica results which may be serendipitous but do show a drop off in their procedures. They are recruiting now for a new trial to begin asap to extend their stage 3 trial to validate their claims.
 

bulkbiker

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According to that paper that was posted earlier on in this thread, and from a reputable archive, they started investigating the base vehicle for the new vaccines in 2015. The technology is new but not hurried as you claim. Within a week or two of the Wuhan outbreak starting, and before the covid hit the rest of the world, the Chinese shared the complete genome for the covid, so it is clear they knew all about this strain, It is the same family as the SARS and MERS viruses so again there was prior experience in dealing with it. What has been rushed is the bootup the jacksy to get commercial labs online, and this is where the learning curve starts in earnest. All potential candidates for licensing have all undergone the usual 3 stage trials, with the required complement of participants meeting previously defined criteria that have been used with success for many other vaccines, so the protocols have been adhered to but are not yet complete. We await publication and peer review before independent panel grants the licence, again standard practice. Indeed there are problems with the Astrazenica results which may be serendipitous but do show a drop off in their procedures. They are recruiting now for a new trial to begin asap to extend their stage 3 trial to validate their claims.

So far as I am aware no mRNA vaccine has ever been used in the human population before?
Am I wrong?
Two of the three proposed vaccines use this methodology.
That they need transportation a seriously low temperatures and very careful handling rings a number of alarm bells to me especially if they are to be released into the NHS.
Maybe I'm being overly cautious but....
 

hankjam

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4,270
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
So far as I am aware no mRNA vaccine has ever been used in the human population before?
Am I wrong?
Two of the three proposed vaccines use this methodology.
That they need transportation a seriously low temperatures and very careful handling rings a number of alarm bells to me especially if they are to be released into the NHS.
Maybe I'm being overly cautious but....

Think only the Pfizer jab needs -80°C and it's fairly standard part of distribution logistics to transport and store on dry ice .
 

Oldvatr

Expert
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8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
So far as I am aware no mRNA vaccine has ever been used in the human population before?
Am I wrong?
Two of the three proposed vaccines use this methodology.
That they need transportation a seriously low temperatures and very careful handling rings a number of alarm bells to me especially if they are to be released into the NHS.
Maybe I'm being overly cautious but....
As a vaccine, it is the new vehicle that was described as being experimented on with animals in 2015. But our bodies come across viral RNA quite often as well as the full blown DNA. The common cold is of the exact same family as the other covids. Another form of vaccine is made by using antibodies from sufferers, and that to my mind is much closer to live covid than I would like.

I think the type of vaccine that attacks the S-protein in the spike is more worrisome since that could potentially attack the ACE-2 receptors in the blood, and those control blood pressure, That is the one I would avoid, personally speaking, and assuming I get to choose. But RNA is like the packed lunch of DNA [snip snip], and is not enough to regenerate the virus but is enough to nudge the body to produce antibody reaction, Once a lab has isolated the RNA, it can be incubated on a large scale using much the same processes as other vaccines.
 

Oldvatr

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Think only the Pfizer jab needs -80°C and it's fairly standard part of distribution logistics to transport and store on dry ice .
It needs -70C apparently, but it is able to be stored in a normal refrigerator for up to 5 days once defrosted. Apparently, the RNA is a single strand (like unzipped DNA) so that makes it fragile. It also needs to have a U particle inserted into it to make it attractive to the immune system. The strand needs to be wrapped in a lipid bubble to allow it to be delivered to the cell where it gets unpacked for use and builds the S-protein without the rest of the DNA bits. This RNA is part of the natural coding system in our bodies and is used extensively as the shorthand shipping manifesto for what it represents. Our cells use this code to recognise useful bits, and the U segment calls in the T-Cells to escort it off the premises, So although this is the first time this technique is being used in humans, it is using natural processes in the body that are fairly well understood in genetic engineering.

The two contenders for the prize differ in what they use for the lipid, and this largely explains the different temperatures for long term storage,
 

Oldvatr

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Please Fasten Seat Belts. No Smoking. No Naked aggression. It's official. The Pfizer express is taking off to a hospital near you (hopefully). Wonder what the tariff will be after Dec 31? It's coming from Belgium.
 
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