The illusive TRUTH

[Hobbytraveller]

Do any of the members have their favorite ways of finding truth?
It can be such an illusive thing to establish and human nature seems to incline us towards seeking out things that support our own views.
So I am left with trusting certain individuals who broadly agree with my own research into things and accepting that as reality.
Broadly based on the concept that perception IS reality.

 

[TeddyTottie]

I guess, truth is what I see to be true from my perspective. For example, LCHF has turned my health around in lots of ways that are measurable in both objective and subjective ways. Objectively I see a scientific reading of my BG reduce to normal levels and see my weight reduce as measured by scales, eye and bagginess of clothing. I see that I no longer need to take drugs to manage my digestive issues and feel that I am no longer suffer digestive discomfort. My psoriasis has gone and my Hidradenitis is in remission. My blood pressure is reduced as measured and felt with occasional dizziness on standing. Very subjectively, I feel I eat better, enjoy my food more and have a much better relationship with it. I feel ‘cleaner’.

I research the effects of lowering my BG and my weight and can correlate much of the data with my observed results. That is enough for me, ‘proof’ of the causes of the self-evident results.

For other truths... I like a reasoned argument with good documentation and review by a wide range of people who specialise in that area. I always ask myself, what is their axe to grind and do they have a financial or doctrinal investment in any particular outcome.

An open mind and a pinch of salt, I guess!

 

[JohnEGreen]

"Verrà la morte e avrà i tuoi occhi-
questa morte che ci accompagna
dal mattino alla sera, insonne,
sorda, come un vecchio rimorso
o un vizio assurdo. I tuoi occhi
saranno una vana parola,
un grido taciuto, un silenzio.
Così li vedi ogni mattina
quando su te sola ti pieghi
nello specchio. O cara speranza,
quel giorno sapremo anche noi
che sei la vita e sei il nulla.
Per tutti la morte ha uno sguardo.
Verrà la morte e avrà i tuoi occhi.
Sarà come smettere un vizio,
come vedere nello specchio
riemergere un viso morto,
come ascoltare un labbro chiuso.
Scenderemo nel gorgo muti.”

― Cesare Pavese, Verrà la morte e avrà i tuoi occhi

 

[LaoDan]

My meter guides me towards the truth as far as diet is concerned. This site, Google, PubMed and meditating under my coconut tree are also helpful

 

[Daibell]

I always try to find as many relevant sources of information as I can and then distil them which is why these forums are so useful. As a professional engineer, now retired, this is what I have always done during my career. I don't automatically trust any one source no matter what the qualifications or experience are. I look to them to 'prove' themselves in the context of other inputs. Medics are no exception to this. I have been treated by 'idiot' medics over the years as well as superb ones. This is normal and 'experts' are not always experts.

 

[JohnEGreen]

If you search for truth it is best first to define what truth is this is a philosophical question and so there can be many answers all equally valid in their own way.

Plato believed that there are truths to be discovered; that knowledge is possible. ... Since truth is objective, our knowledge of true propositions must be about real things. According to Plato, these real things are Forms. Their nature is such that the only mode by which we can know them is rationality.

Aristotle's well-known definition of truth was “To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true”

But if your search is for something to believe then that's a matter of faith and all you need to do is decide who to put your faith in and therefore who's version of the truth you are willing to accept.

By the way the poem was about one of the two truths or certainties of life Death and Taxes.

Translated as follows.

Death will come and your eyes will have
this death that accompanies us
from morning to evening, sleepless,
deaf, like an old remorse
or an absurd vice. Your eyes
will be a vain word,
a silent cry, a silence.
So you see them every morning
when you lean over yourself
in the mirror. O dear hope,
that day we too will know
that you are life and you are nothingness.
For all, death has a look.
Death will come and have your eyes.
It will be like giving up a vice,
like seeing
a dead face re-emerge in the mirror ,
like listening to a closed lip.
We will go down into the muti eddy.

Cesare Pavese

Truth is something difficult to ascertain all you can do is listen to as many opinions as you can and the use your own intelligence to pick the one or ones that seem rational and make sense to you.

You can after all only view the world through the lens of your own mind.

And remember truth as an absolute will always be the truth even if no one believes it.
A lie will always be a lie even if every one believes it.

Critical reading is always a good thing to try and I never trust rhetoric even if I use it.

 

[lindisfel]

Do any of the members have their favorite ways of finding truth?
It can be such an illusive thing to establish and human nature seems to incline us towards seeking out things that support our own views.
So I am left with trusting certain individuals who broadly agree with my own research into things and accepting that as reality.
Broadly based on the concept that perception IS reality.

Surely if truth is illusive it can never be found?
If it is elusive it is hard to find.

Pilate said, "What is truth?" I guess he was a rather cynical political animal and wouldn't let truth get in the way of his ambitions.

I am sure truth exists but most things in theology and science are approximations.
Politics and truth seldom mix.

Did Hitler murder millions?
I have no doubt he did away with c.Six million Jews, c.600,000 gypsies, plus homosexuals, dissenting religious minorities, communist etc.
All true and to deny it is falsehood.

D.

 

[Nicole T]

Do any of the members have their favorite ways of finding truth?
It can be such an illusive thing to establish and human nature seems to incline us towards seeking out things that support our own views.
So I am left with trusting certain individuals who broadly agree with my own research into things and accepting that as reality.
Broadly based on the concept that perception IS reality.

Absolute truth tends to exist only by definition. 1+1 is 2, by definition. A whale is a kind of mammal, by definition. Everything else is an opinion or a belief, hopefully based on an objective evaluation of available evidence. Sometimes there's very compelling evidence for something, but as long as one rational person believes otherwise, that truth isn't absolute.

Confirmation bias certainly plays a role when it comes to weighing up evidence. It's human nature to take note of things that affirm our beliefs and ignore things that discredit them. Social media has, of course, sent this skyrocketing. Now that everyone with an Internet connection is able to be 'published', you don't have to look far to find someone else who believes in your 'truth', no matter how ridiculous it might seem to most people.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Absolute truth tends to exist only by definition. 1+1 is 2, by definition. A whale is a kind of mammal, by definition. Everything else is an opinion or a belief, hopefully based on an objective evaluation of available evidence. Sometimes there's very compelling evidence for something, but as long as one rational person believes otherwise, that truth isn't absolute.

Confirmation bias certainly plays a role when it comes to weighing up evidence. It's human nature to take note of things that affirm our beliefs and ignore things that discredit them. Social media has, of course, sent this skyrocketing. Now that everyone with an Internet connection is able to be 'published', you don't have to look far to find someone else who believes in your 'truth', no matter how ridiculous it might seem to most people.

One plus one does not always equal two, especially with regard to hypomethylating agents: the question of synergy of azacitidine and lenalidomide for treatment of relapsed acute myeloid leukemia and myelodysplastic syndromes post allogeneic hematopoietic stem cell transplant

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31225770/

Circadian Math: One Plus One Doesn't Always Equal Two

https://news.rpi.edu/luwakkey/2456


One plus one, does it make one?

Obviously not but then.

https://ali.medium.com/one-plus-one-does-it-make-one-66cca346e2de

 

[lessci]

One plus one does not always equal two, especially with regard to hypomethylating agents: the question of synergy of azacitidine and lenalidomide for treatment of relapsed acute myeloid leukemia and myelodysplastic syndromes post allogeneic hematopoietic stem cell transplant

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31225770/

Circadian Math: One Plus One Doesn't Always Equal Two

https://news.rpi.edu/luwakkey/2456


One plus one, does it make one?

Obviously not but then.

https://ali.medium.com/one-plus-one-does-it-make-one-66cca346e2de

1+1 can also equal many in reproductive terms

 

[Mr_Pot]

especially with regard to hypomethylating agents: the question of synergy of azacitidine and lenalidomide for treatment of relapsed acute myeloid leukemia and myelodysplastic syndromes post allogeneic hematopoietic stem cell transplant

That was on the tip of my tongue.

 

[Antje77]

Hi everyone, this thread was moved to the General Chat part of the forum so you can all philosophise on the concept of truth to your heart's content

Enjoy!

 

[Lamont D]

I cannot tell a lie!
I always tell the truth!

A lie detector doesn't always find the truth.

I always thought that the truth was an observation of what happened.
And an observation is based on how they see it.
History is always observed from whoever wins or is paying the writer.

If you believe someone, that means you trust their version of it, so it's a fact, isn't it?

Propaganda is used by those who want you to know the truth, until it is found to be an abuse of the truth used by politicians. In truth, don't believe anything they say or what you read in the papers or on the television. Simply because they are always employed by owners who are politically motivated.

Is this the truth or a lie?

 

[Hobbytraveller]

I guess, truth is what I see to be true from my perspective. For example, LCHF has turned my health around in lots of ways that are measurable in both objective and subjective ways. Objectively I see a scientific reading of my BG reduce to normal levels and see my weight reduce as measured by scales, eye and bagginess of clothing. I see that I no longer need to take drugs to manage my digestive issues and feel that I am no longer suffer digestive discomfort. My psoriasis has gone and my Hidradenitis is in remission. My blood pressure is reduced as measured and felt with occasional dizziness on standing. Very subjectively, I feel I eat better, enjoy my food more and have a much better relationship with it. I feel ‘cleaner’.

I research the effects of lowering my BG and my weight and can correlate much of the data with my observed results. That is enough for me, ‘proof’ of the causes of the self-evident results.

For other truths... I like a reasoned argument with good documentation and review by a wide range of people who specialise in that area. I always ask myself, what is their axe to grind and do they have a financial or doctrinal investment in any particular outcome.

An open mind and a pinch of salt, I guess!

Great reply
You highlight the ease we find in recognising the things that affect us and are measurable.
I guess I am not trying to identify liars but I am increasingly struggling with 'Truth twisters' Spin doctors', those who are 'Economical with the truth'
and the mischievous element who seem to enjoy creating fear and uncertainty by circulating half believable information.