Are there any type 1 diabetics here in remission?

[Jaylee]

Lovely people,

Can we please keep all responses within the boundaries of civility?

I thank you all…

OK,

So now it time to reiterate what was said upstream.. On behalf of the whole moderator team.

Keep bickering & snipes off the message board..

Thanx again.

 

[Billy Barroo]

Hi,

Within the context of your topic. You are more than welcome to produce more recent documentation on the two cases studied using the Paleomedicina diet.


This sounds awful for you..
Your attachment is a copy of your initial admission for DKA & diagnosis in December 2019.

If you were re-admitted the end of February & early March, 2020.
What was the prognosis regarding the tests on your symptoms?

Still Type 1, gastroparesis, abnormal heart rhythm. I ditched the alkaline gastroparesis medication Omeprazol etc, as it was the alkalinity that was causing the problem. I acidified my stomach with Betaine Hydrochloride + pepsin and it stopped the gastroparesis in it's tracks within half an hour. I did the opposite to what they were advising me to do after months of intensive research.

 

[Billy Barroo]

Just casually chatting with my endo, his main concerns are insulin bolusing for fat/protein meals is notoriously hard to get right, can be easier to have lows and there is no safe way to distinguish nutritional ketosis from clinical DKA - big factors in why neither US/UK current diabetes guidelines advocate low carb/Keto for Type 1s, even though now well recognised as very powerful for treating T2. This is why he has been doing a study with multiple T1 participants to see if there is helpful potential to modify the Type 1 guidance to support use of Low carb / Keto ways of eating. That said, Dr Bernstein in the USA is considered one of the major advocates of moderate protein, moderate fat, very low carb eating to help good glucose control in Type 1, especially children. But not accepted mainstream.

Thank you for posting a couple of references - but these are individual case studies - primarily of interest because they are such unusual outliers, and you may also fall into this category if you are a genuine Type 1 or a very rare, very long LADA Type. Pragmatically I envy you - my beta cells no longer function at any level and I do develop concerning DKA symptoms if I go longer than 24 hrs without my usual insulins.

I try to keep my ketone levels around the 2.5 mark, which is fine for me as long as my blood glucose levels are low.

 

[ert]

You are digging yourself into a deeper hole . You asked a question Quote: "Does it last a month, a year, 5 years or a lifetime? An extremely important point we keep coming back to". and I answered it. Quote: "The honeymoon period can vary from person to person. It can last for any number of days, weeks, months and years". I actually thought you didn't know. You replied Quote:"Yes I did know that. No need for sarcasm." If you you already knew, then why did you ask the question? You need to stop spreading false information It's the likes of you that's causing the confusion. The scientific evidence is out there, do some research it's been there for years. The out of date mantra saying "Only type 2 diabetics can go into remission" has been debunked on so many levels.
Can you explain how these type 1 diabetics can not go into remission? even though they did.

Brilliant scientific success! Type 1 diabetes has been overcome. There is only one question left: will Hungarian or French researchers take credit for this groundbreaking discovery?

Before we get started, here is a brief explanation of the title and of its practical implications. Click here, to read this article on our new website! THE CASE The diet which is radically different from the current recommendations of diabetologists can

www.paleomedicina.com

I'm no longer interested in your personal opinions. Show us some genuine scientific facts. or just let's agree to disagree with each other and leave it at that.

There is a cut off for honeymoon for a type 1. Part of the diagnosis for type 1 is rapid deterioration onto insulin. A c-peptide test is a cheap way to confirm a diagnosis and the time frame after the first three years.

 

[Billy Barroo]

I've gone and asked directly to the Paleolithic Ketogenic Diet group if there are any updates on your queries. My post is pending, Admin need to approve it first. I'll let you know if or when it's approved.

Sorry Brunneria but it hasn't been approved. I've been asked not to ask questions about patients in the published articles. they may or may not provide us information. and that they need patient consent to unveil someone's personal and medical information in a publication and it's required at the time of the publication, it does not necessarily entitles them to do this any longer. In a few cases, they know the patient's position and may update readers on this, but not in other cases.
I was wondering if I should close this thread down now. The title of this thread is "Are there any type 1 diabetics here in remission?" Not "Am I a type 1 diabetic in remission."

 

[Jaylee]

Sorry Brunneria but it hasn't been approved. I've been asked not to ask questions about patients in the published articles. they may or may not provide us information. and that hey need patient consent to unveil someone's personal and medical information in a publication and it's required at the time of the publication, it does not necessarily entitles them to do this any longer. In a few cases, they know the patient's position and may update readers on this, but not in other cases.

Now I’m baffled..

Both cases were anonymous apart from male & T1 of a certain age in the original study.?

Are there any other longer term patient studies with consent?

 

[Billy Barroo]

Now I’m baffled..

Both cases were anonymous apart from male & T1 of a certain age in the original study.?

Are there any other longer term patient studies with consent?

I've been asked not to ask questions about patients in the published articles.

 

[HSSS]

If you you already knew, then why did you ask the question?

I thought I’d covered this in post 76. It was a rhetoric question to highlight the limitation of the report. Obviously not recognised as such by yourself, nor was the precious explanation clear enough it seems.

You need to stop spreading false information It's the likes of you that's causing the confusion. The scientific evidence is out there, do some research it's been there for years. The out of date mantra saying "Only type 2 diabetics can go into remission" has been debunked on so many levels.

exactly what false information have I spread? (Edit to add I have only ever said remission is not a term normally or typically applied to type 1, check my posts, and using it here is what is causing confusion and tried to debate what how remission in type 1 is different from the widely accepted term of honeymoon)

i am simply pointing why your posts are raising so much contention and misunderstanding /debate. I am far from the only one doing so even if you don’t want to hear an opinion other than your own. The language and definitions you use are not typically associated with type 1 (outside of your specific dietary group) and thus are confusing and misleading to much of the wider audience and my posts are attempting to explain that to you. I haven’t argued your experience or the science, just your language and assumptions. Please stop twisting my words.

 

[AndBreathe]

OK, here’s my take on his.

@Billy Barroo isnt presenting in the usual way for someone historically diagnosed with T1 diabetes. He is showing a number of very unusual characteristics, leading members to adopt sceptical positions at best. That’s only natural.

But.

When I was diagnosed with T2 in the dark ages of 2013, it was the usually adopted approach that T2 would be a progressive condition, with progression only on a downward trajectory over time. Dietary advice, both in the medical community and to quite a large extent in online communities, was to just ease back on sugar, and go wholemeal. Remission was a very, new concept. Taylor’s work had not been fully published and the longer term low carb way of eating was in its infancy. Remission wasn’t really a thing.

Fast forward to today when T2 in remission is a fairly accepted state, although some medics find it hard to grasp the concept. Long teem LC eating is common, even for healthy individuals. Times change. Knowledge develops.

Moving forward, who knows what we will all learn about diabetes. The most common approach to Billy here and now, feels like 2013 all over again. Maybe Billy is a phenomenon. Maybe he’s T2. Maybe his honeymoon is just longer than some, but his time since diagnosis is still quite brief, if his pancreas splutters. Personally, I don’t believe that some of these diagnoses are binary, and particularly when it comes to type - even after significant periods, way longer than Billy’s. .

Personally, the jury is out for me on what’s actually happening with Billy. I can’t form a definite view - primarily because we don’t know enough and Billy’s lack of follow up testing of insulin and c-peptide levels doesn’t help anyone, but he is living as he chooses to.

Only time, and/or significant additional testing will tell any of us exactly what Billy’s situation is.

@Billy Barroo , do you retain a small supply of insulin, to have available should your need come back, suddenly? I would b concerned if you had no immediate, ready access to medication.

 

[HSSS]

OK, here’s my take on his.

@Billy Barroo isnt presenting in the usual way for someone historically diagnosed with T1 diabetes. He is showing a number of very unusual characteristics, leading members to adopt sceptical positions at best. That’s only natural.

But.

When I was diagnosed with T2 in the dark ages of 2013, it was the usually adopted approach that T2 would be a progressive condition, with progression only on a downward trajectory over time. Dietary advice, both in the medical community and to quite a large extent in online communities, was to just ease back on sugar, and go wholemeal. Remission was a very, new concept. Taylor’s work had not been fully published and the longer term low carb way of eating was in its infancy. Remission wasn’t really a thing.

Fast forward to today when T2 in remission is a fairly accepted state, although some medics find it hard to grasp the concept. Long teem LC eating is common, even for healthy individuals. Times change. Knowledge develops.

Moving forward, who knows what we will all learn about diabetes. The most common approach to Billy here and now, feels like 2013 all over again. Maybe Billy is a phenomenon. Maybe he’s T2. Maybe his honeymoon is just longer than some, but his time since diagnosis is still quite brief, if his pancreas splutters. Personally, I don’t believe that some of these diagnoses are binary, and particularly when it comes to type - even after significant periods, way longer than Billy’s. .

Personally, the jury is out for me on what’s actually happening with Billy. I can’t form a definite view - primarily because we don’t know enough and Billy’s lack of follow up testing of insulin and c-peptide levels doesn’t help anyone, but he is living as he chooses to.

Only time, and/or significant additional testing will tell any of us exactly what Billy’s situation is.

@Billy Barroo , do you retain a small supply of insulin, to have available should your need come back, suddenly? I would b concerned if you had no immediate, ready access to medication.

I think all most are saying is that there are accepted and widely documented possibilities here (misdiagnosis or honeymoon assisted by carni diet) here that are not, apparently, even being considered by billy. And you are quite right, all new approaches that become mainstream have to start somewhere (blimey even low carb as a management tool is still a bit out there for many medics).

I’m just not sure there’s any real evidence for something groundbreaking happening here on what we know so far. Tell me in 5 yrs there’s still no insulin required and antibodies are positive and c peptide is below normal and I’ll be converted perhaps.

 

[Billy Barroo]

OK, here’s my take on his.

@Billy Barroo isnt presenting in the usual way for someone historically diagnosed with T1 diabetes. He is showing a number of very unusual characteristics, leading members to adopt sceptical positions at best. That’s only natural.

But.

When I was diagnosed with T2 in the dark ages of 2013, it was the usually adopted approach that T2 would be a progressive condition, with progression only on a downward trajectory over time. Dietary advice, both in the medical community and to quite a large extent in online communities, was to just ease back on sugar, and go wholemeal. Remission was a very, new concept. Taylor’s work had not been fully published and the longer term low carb way of eating was in its infancy. Remission wasn’t really a thing.

Fast forward to today when T2 in remission is a fairly accepted state, although some medics find it hard to grasp the concept. Long teem LC eating is common, even for healthy individuals. Times change. Knowledge develops.

Moving forward, who knows what we will all learn about diabetes. The most common approach to Billy here and now, feels like 2013 all over again. Maybe Billy is a phenomenon. Maybe he’s T2. Maybe his honeymoon is just longer than some, but his time since diagnosis is still quite brief, if his pancreas splutters. Personally, I don’t believe that some of these diagnoses are binary, and particularly when it comes to type - even after significant periods, way longer than Billy’s. .

Personally, the jury is out for me on what’s actually happening with Billy. I can’t form a definite view - primarily because we don’t know enough and Billy’s lack of follow up testing of insulin and c-peptide levels doesn’t help anyone, but he is living as he chooses to.

Only time, and/or significant additional testing will tell any of us exactly what Billy’s situation is.

@Billy Barroo , do you retain a small supply of insulin, to have available should your need come back, suddenly? I would b concerned if you had no immediate, ready access to medication.

Yes I do keep an emergency supply of insulin, both basal and bolus. I have 2 high saturated animal fat, medium protein, zero carb meals a day, I test my blood sugars 4 times a day. There are so many type I diabetics out there that I still keep in contact with that are still in remission and have been for years. I don't need carbs, I get all I need through the gluconeogenesis pathway.

 

[Billy Barroo]

I thought I’d covered this in post 76. It was a rhetoric question to highlight the limitation of the report. Obviously not recognised as such by yourself, nor was the precious explanation clear enough it seems.



exactly what false information have I spread? (Edit to add I have only ever said remission is not a term normally or typically applied to type 1, check my posts, and using it here is what is causing confusion and tried to debate what how remission in type 1 is different from the widely accepted term of honeymoon)

i am simply pointing why your posts are raising so much contention and misunderstanding /debate. I am far from the only one doing so even if you don’t want to hear an opinion other than your own. The language and definitions you use are not typically associated with type 1 (outside of your specific dietary group) and thus are confusing and misleading to much of the wider audience and my posts are attempting to explain that to you. I haven’t argued your experience or the science, just your language and assumptions. Please stop twisting my words.

The out of date mantra saying "Only type 2 diabetics can go into remission" IS FALSE INFORMATION. There is nothing confusing and misleading. Remission applies to type ones and type two's and that is a well known fact. They are not opinions or assumptions they're facts.

 

[Jaylee]

Here's a link to Rachel Chalmers NZ Carnivore group.

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Hi,

I’m not totally convinced on Rachel Charmers condition. She has been T1 for 13 years. Yet on her personal FB page she is the proud mother of 3 kids. The eldest possibly being 12/13?

However,
It is possible & not unheard of to come off insulin if one has “gestational diabetes?”

 

[Zhnyaka]

The out of date mantra saying "Only type 2 diabetics can go into remission" IS FALSE INFORMATION.

if you can avoid injecting insulin, we are very happy for you, but please do not forget that diabetes, especially t1, can lead to death. Of course, you wish other diabetics only the best, but you can accidentally kill them or lead to serious complications. You can do whatever you want with yourself, no one forces you to take injections, but be careful putting other people in danger. There are hundreds of people here who can listen to you and it will cost them their lives and health. There is nothing wrong with insulin to avoid it, hypoglycemia is easily stopped with the help of glucose, and you quickly get used to needles, but complications of diabetes are very dangerous and almost irreversible, ketoacidosis is not something that anyone wants to face (once again, because there is hardly a t1 who has never had ketopcidosis).

I am very sorry if I expressed myself too harshly. Belief in the remission of diabetes once almost cost me my life (if you want, I can tell you the details) and I began to have polyneuropathy (thanks to my doctor, which is a fairly mild form) before I reached adolescence

 

[AndBreathe]

My daughter lasted three months before her honeymoon. Then the need for insulin increased dramatically. Now we want to transfer her to a pump, I have already asked the doctor to set it for us. we are waiting for the turn and a quota. But fats are the most dangerous for her because after a meal they slow down the absorption of carbohydrates for two hours and then every time I have a sugar crash.

To be honest, whilst I completely sympathise that fats cause your daughter issues with sugar control, this could be largely attributed to a need to dose differently for significantly different foods and compositions. It is unfortunately something we hear a lot of, in one form or another.

To be clear; I am not insulting you, your daughter or anyone's attempt to care for her, just replaying observations made repeatedly over time.

As I observe it, pumps are revolutionary to care, but do bring along their own steep learning curves.

T1 diabetes is not a condition often associated with silver bullet solutions.

 

[AndBreathe]

I think all most are saying is that there are accepted and widely documented possibilities here (misdiagnosis or honeymoon assisted by carni diet) here that are not, apparently, even being considered by billy. And you are quite right, all new approaches that become mainstream have to start somewhere (blimey even low carb as a management tool is still a bit out there for many medics).

I’m just not sure there’s any real evidence for something groundbreaking happening here on what we know so far. Tell me in 5 yrs there’s still no insulin required and antibodies are positive and c peptide is below normal and I’ll be converted perhaps.

I know what people are saying, but, frankly, we are all flogging a dead horse here. @Billy Barroo has one very clear view of his situation, whereas yours and many others' is very different. Nobody knows who is correct, and I am confident to include the OP in that statement.

I'm not insulting anyone here or calling anyone disingenuous. We each have our beliefs and whilst some of those beliefs might be flawed, they are still valid beliefs to that person or people.

Frustratingly, beliefs and factual realities can differ. Think unicorns, Santa (sorry munchkins), climate change and the shape of the earth just as examples.

 

[Brunneria]

Sorry Brunneria but it hasn't been approved. I've been asked not to ask questions about patients in the published articles. they may or may not provide us information. and that they need patient consent to unveil someone's personal and medical information in a publication and it's required at the time of the publication, it does not necessarily entitles them to do this any longer. In a few cases, they know the patient's position and may update readers on this, but not in other cases.

Thank you for asking your group, and thank you for letting us know the outcome.

My view is that if both individuals in the case studies were still being 'successfully treated' by the Paleomedicina diet, and were still what you are calling 'in remission', then the Paleomedicina doctors would be shouting the news across the internet and at every carnivore and diabetes conference. There would also be more cases studies and larger trials.
Since these things aren't happening, I suspect that, several years later, the news isn't that great.

T1 honeymoons are very complex. I can see how reducing the insulin requirements (exogenous or endogenous) may prolong the honeymoon, and I can see how reducing the rate of autoimmune damage to the pancreas may also prolong the honeymoon, but to achieve that indefinitely? To effectively stop T1 in its tracks? That is a tall, tall order, and these two case studies don't provide that evidence (the case studies would have to have been conducted for years, and followed up for decades, to justify such a claim) - in my opinion.

Edited to add: For full disclosure, I am reluctant to use the phrase 'in remission' about T2 diabetes too. As far as I can see, the criteria used by (for instance) the NHS to classify Remission are absurdly lax, and people often throw the term around as if it were some kind of Holy Grail, when in fact is more commonly just a pause in the progression of T2, that lasts for as long as they stick to their low carb diet, maintain their exercise regime, and keep motivated. As soon as injury or illness stops them exercising, or they fall off the diet wagon, they are back to full blown insulin resistance (hyperinsulinaemia), and are stacking up more damage. Personally, I wish people would just say 'well controlled T2' for as long as their control is held.

 

[Juicyj]

Remission applies to type ones

No it doesn't - without insulin type 1 diabetics die, do not mislead people with this information.

(Mod edit to comply with forum ethos).

 

[Billy Barroo]

Thank you for asking your group, and thank you for letting us know the outcome.

My view is that if both individuals in the case studies were still being 'successfully treated' by the Paleomedicina diet, and were still what you are calling 'in remission', then the Paleomedicina doctors would be shouting the news across the internet and at every carnivore and diabetes conference. There would also be more cases studies and larger trials.
Since these things aren't happening, I suspect that, several years later, the news isn't that great.

T1 honeymoons are very complex. I can see how reducing the insulin requirements (exogenous or endogenous) may prolong the honeymoon, and I can see how reducing the rate of autoimmune damage to the pancreas may also prolong the honeymoon, but to achieve that indefinitely? To effectively stop T1 in its tracks? That is a tall, tall order, and these two case studies don't provide that evidence (the case studies would have to have been conducted for years, and followed up for decades, to justify such a claim) - in my opinion.

Edited to add: For full disclosure, I am reluctant to use the phrase 'in remission' about T2 diabetes too. As far as I can see, the criteria used by (for instance) the NHS to classify Remission are absurdly lax, and people often throw the term around as if it were some kind of Holy Grail, when in fact is more commonly just a pause in the progression of T2, that lasts for as long as they stick to their low carb diet, maintain their exercise regime, and keep motivated. As soon as injury or illness stops them exercising, or they fall off the diet wagon, they are back to full blown insulin resistance (hyperinsulinaemia), and are stacking up more damage. Personally, I wish people would just say 'well controlled T2' for as long as their control is held.

Paleomedicina doctors "are" shouting the news across the internet and at every carnivore and diabetes conference. Type in Zsofia Clemens and Csaba Toth on YouTube and Google.

Fast forward to the 1 hour 16 minute mark and listen to what Dr. Zsófia Clemens, a neurobiologist and clinical researcher specialising in nutrition, nutritional therapy and brain research has to say about putting type 1 diabetes into remission. They're still trying to cover it up.

 

[Billy Barroo]

Paleomedicina doctors "are" shouting the news across the internet and at every carnivore and diabetes conference. Type in Zsofia Clemens and Csaba Toth on YouTube and Google.

Fast forward to the 1 hour 16 minute mark and listen to what Dr. Zsófia Clemens, a neurobiologist and clinical researcher specialising in nutrition, nutritional therapy and brain research has to say about putting type 1 diabetes into remission. They're still trying to cover it up.