Not your regular diabetic.....please help if possible

Mr X

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Messages
19
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi guys, new here.

Firstly I just want to say please try and stay with me on this as it might be quite a long post but i really need as much advice as possible as not to sound dramatic but it could literally save my life.


Ok so I am not your regular diabetic. I have something called CFRD which is short for Cystic Fibrosis Related Diabetes. This is basically a type of diabetes that is solely related to people with CF and isn't type 1 or 2 but a mix of both of them. It usually happens after one becomes an adult. For me i was fine until a year ago or so when around 22 years of age and before that I wasn't insulin dependant and was functioning as normal so I could eat and drink whatever I liked.


Now unfortunately I need to inject NovoRapid fast acting insulin with anything i eat or drink to keep my levels in check.



So you are with me so far.....now this is where it gets confusing and very different.



Due to my condition I can't eat like a normal diabetic should or would. I have to adhere to very strict guidelines as I am not in a good place right now health wise and am literally fighting for my life and trying to turn things around as they have taken a dive for the worst very recently.


I have to have a certain amount of calories every day without fail....or I lose weight daily. My weight takes a long time to go up but can drop instantly and i am extremely low weight due to this and this affects my life expectancy massively and has implications on all my other symptoms. The higher my weight the more chance I have getting back on track with all the other parts.

Every day is unique and there is no set schedule for me. In an ideal world every day of mine should be schedules and well regimented and i should be doing X medical treatment and X time and eating lots of small meals at given times throughout the day. Unfortunately due to my health this is not possible and on some days I am only awake a few hours of each day and I have different sleep habits so most days I will go to bed in the morning and wake up in the evening or wake up at midnight and have my first meal when people usually are sleeping. As you can imagine this is very detrimental for me but nothing I can do about it as it all depends on my health and if I have an undisturbed sleep as usually I'm up with some pain/problem or another.


The issue with this is I have to cram as much food down as possible whilst i am awake on those days to try and keep up my intake. On good days where i have a normal wake up time I try to space meals out etc and it's all a little easier but still hard due to all my problems.




The issue I am having is also due to this my diet is very high calorie, also very high carb and high protein too. It cannot be low carb and i also cannot change the staple foods that the meals are based around simply because i get on really well with them and there aren't many alternatives that pack the same amount of calories/fats etc.

Each meal is no less than 120g carbs, sometimes can be as high as 180g ....and i normally have a minimum of three of these a day, sometimes more. Also i take supplement protein/gain shakes too a few times a day which are also high carb usually around 50g which i try and take 2-3 lots of in the day.

^this obviously varies depending how many hours I am awake and what kind of a day I am having but you get the idea. Sometimes i half the big meals so the carb content is less and easier on my stomach and then will add a milkshake with it instead etc but the carb total is always high as you can see.


Injecting insulin with this is a nightmare.


All my foods are generally diabetic no no foods. A lot of the meals are based around white rice. Brown rice doesn't go well with the dishes i have.
Potatoes in different forms are another food that features heavily in my meals.
Flat bread ( nan, chapati, roti etc) made from wholemeal flour.
Lentils, beans.
Pasta
Protein powder Milkshake.


^that pretty much sums up all of my meals in one way or another as all of those feature as the staple in the different dishes.




I have been logging my insulin without fail numerous times a day with the meals and trying to inject differnt amounts but still not having much luck and still not putting weight on. I normally measure 1 hour after meal and 2 hours after meal.

1 hour after a meal the figures are naerly always double figures with the highest I've seen being 18 and the odd exceptions with some under 10 when it's a smaller lower carb meal.

and 2 hour after a meal once again normally double figures low teens 10-13 and with lower carb smaller meals it can be perfectly normal and between 5-8.



I have tried things like injecting at different intervals before starting a meal (15 min before, 10 min before etc) but I can't seem to be able to get it lower and I don't want to inject too much for obvious reasons.


Also when injecting with a the high carb shake, i usually inject at the start but the thign is the shake is finished within one minute and near enough instantly i feel totally off my nut as high as a kite and absolutely out of it for the next hour plus. This also happens with meals and I hate it as I sometimes fall asleep missing medicine and other valuable time. It also stops me putting on weight as when my sugar is high I just lose even more weight and it forces my food to digest super fast without absorbing the nutrients. It's an extremely vicious circle and one that I am trying to break out of.


I was wondering if anyone has any tips on what to do in regards to injecting with those kind of meals and what to do with high carb drinks or any tips and advice anyone can give me.


The milkshake doesn't have any sugar in it (only 1g) but i figured as the carb content is so high it's like downing a bottle of Lucozade in one go. I'm sure there must be people that have sweet juices or fizzy drinks on here and if so how do you manage them.

Or shouldn't I have the milkshake by itself and instead have it with a meal so the insulin covers everything together to avoid the spike it gives?


Or is it just simply that due to the nature of those foods I am eating, no matter how much insulin I inject it will never be able to cover such high carb foods like a normal body would? Is that the case as I really am out of ideas and testing as time is running out for me.


If anyone has made it this far then I thank you for that alone!

I would appreciate any advice or anyone willing to help me make some kind of progress, I have exhausted each possible option now so please don't tell me to see anyone but if we could just focus on the above.

Feel free to ask any questions incase I need to give more detail or help you to understand anything else.
 
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Hello Mr X , I have never heard of this condition and it sounds an never ending struggling battle for you.

Have you been tested for Coeliac Disease ? as non absorption of nutrients and loss of weight is a couple of the symptoms.

Good luck and I wish you all the best

RRB
 

Mr X

Member
Messages
19
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hello Mr X , I have never heard of this condition and it sounds an never ending struggling battle for you.

Have you been tested for Coeliac Disease ? as non absorption of nutrients and loss of weight is a couple of the symptoms.

Good luck and I wish you all the best

RRB

Many people haven't and it really is terrible due to the fact that it affects nearly everything in the body to an extent. It's almost like a time bomb and you have to keep fighting to make sure it doesn't affect the next organ/part. Luckily my mind is in a good place and I'm very strong willed and determined so I am trying to undo as opposed to hang on but at the moment there it doesn't look great.


I don't have Coeliac either as I have lot's of gluten throughout the day without much problem. I do suffer from bloating and other GI issues but this is due to the nature of the condition and happens with pretty much anything.


thank you for the support!
 
Messages
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Hi again, some people can have no signs or symptoms of Coeliac Disease, so I just wondering if you have been tested for this condition, as this is an auto immune disease that is connected to diabetes, especially Type 1.

Take care with best wishes RRB
 

Mr X

Member
Messages
19
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi again, some people can have no signs or symptoms of Coeliac Disease, so I just wondering if you have been tested for this condition, as this is an auto immune disease that is connected to diabetes, especially Type 1.

Take care with best wishes RRB
I think I will get tested for it again as maybe things have changed. All the symptoms are covered because they fit under symptoms my other condition hence why I don't think I have it having never had an issue with gluten so to speak. But then again I may have and it might be overlooked. I will definitely chase it up, thanks for the heads up
 

Mr X

Member
Messages
19
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hello,
Sorry to hear about your battle, but well done on the positive attitude.
I haven’t been diabetic long enough to help, but I’m thinking maybe one of the guys who weight lifts might be able to help with insulin for high carb meals / shakes?
Have a look at this thread...?
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/diabetes-has-ruined-my-life.66355/

Emma :)
Checking the link out right now!....Thank you very much!


also on a side note I've just come across a thread you posted in saying you were getting something called a Freestyle Libre. Having just found out about it reading the thread, did you ever get it and try it out? As my fingers have been pricked to death recently with the amount of data logging I am doing and seeing that it looks incredible. Just wondering how well it works and if it is actually useful. Regarding the ins and outs like how long does it last, battery, what exactly do you have to do with it, how long does it stay in, price and maintainence etc!
Would be great to know as I'm still reading page by page to try and find peoples experiences on it
 

Emmotha

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1,123
Type of diabetes
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Checking the link out right now!....Thank you very much!


also on a side note I've just come across a thread you posted in saying you were getting something called a Freestyle Libre. Having just found out about it reading the thread, did you ever get it and try it out? As my fingers have been pricked to death recently with the amount of data logging I am doing and seeing that it looks incredible. Just wondering how well it works and if it is actually useful. Regarding the ins and outs like how long does it last, battery, what exactly do you have to do with it, how long does it stay in, price and maintainence etc!
Would be great to know as I'm still reading page by page to try and find peoples experiences on it

I would say for your circumstance it would be great actually, because like you say you are asleep a lot of the time so not able to test, but the Libre would be able to give you a good indication of what’s going on whilst you sleep.
For me, it took 3 days to settle and start working. I don’t think you could use it as a replacement for the finger testing, but it’s definitely a useful tool and could help a lot.
Battery seems to last a few days, but you can still use it whilst charging (but the cable is very short), also someone else could scan you whilst you’re asleep. (It doesn’t match exactly the blood readings, but after a few days you learn the pattern).
Its £135 for the starter kit, which includes the scanner and 2 patches (which in theory is 28 days).
Which test meter are you using?
 

Mr X

Member
Messages
19
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
I would say for your circumstance it would be great actually, because like you say you are asleep a lot of the time so not able to test, but the Libre would be able to give you a good indication of what’s going on whilst you sleep.
For me, it took 3 days to settle and start working. I don’t think you could use it as a replacement for the finger testing, but it’s definitely a useful tool and could help a lot.
Battery seems to last a few days, but you can still use it whilst charging (but the cable is very short), also someone else could scan you whilst you’re asleep. (It doesn’t match exactly the blood readings, but after a few days you learn the pattern).
Its £135 for the starter kit, which includes the scanner and 2 patches (which in theory is 28 days).
Which test meter are you using?
reading what you just wrote tells me the meter may not be it's all cracked up to be. I am currently using the freestyle optium neo.

why wouldn't it be a substitute for the finger testing, i thought it should tell the readings and if not more?
The main reason i was interested was a long with not having to prick myself but the fact it tells you if the levels are rising or decreasing etc as it would be good to note patterns. But if it isn't reliable then may not be worth it.


And absolutely the amount of times i have to get up whilst i finally manage to get sleep to test is annoying. On paper it seems perfect.
 

noblehead

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Hi Mrs X and welcome to the forum.

Yours is quite a complex case and I wouldn't know where to start tbh, all I can suggest is you ask diabetes care team on how best you can reduce your postprandial spikes.

Not knowing much about CFRD I'm very reluctant to mention diet, but I'm wondering if you could perhaps replace some of the high carb foods with some protein and fats to limit the spikes, each 1g of fat has 9 cals as opposed to carbs & protein that have 4 cals, perhaps by having a word with the dietitian assigned to the diabetes clinic they might advise further.

Gary Scheiner wrote an article called Strike the Spike about reducing postprandial spikes, it might still be worthwhile you having a look:

http://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/articles/high-blood-glucose/strike-the-spike-ii/all/
 
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Brunneria

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Hi, Mr X,

I'm afraid I can offer absolutely no help with the high carb diet and insulin, but I wanted to say how welcome you are., and to bump your thread.

Hopefully some more experienced insulin users will be along soon to give their suggestions.

The only thing I can think to contribute, is that adding fibre to your shakes may slow their absorption a bit. You can get psyllium husks or something called Lepicol, and just stir them in to any drink. The powder swells up, making the drink thicker, and also slower to digest. It takes a bit of getting used to, but may be worth trying...
 

Bazzza

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Hmm...cut out the carbs from the pasta, rice, potatoes, bread. You can get them from veg too. What's the other illness you have that's making you fight for your life?
 

Mr X

Member
Messages
19
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi Mrs X and welcome to the forum.

Yours is quite a complex case and I wouldn't know where to start tbh, all I can suggest is you ask diabetes care team on how best you can reduce your postprandial spikes.

Not knowing much about CFRD I'm very reluctant to mention diet, but I'm wondering if you could perhaps replace some of the high carb foods with some protein and fats to limit the spikes, each 1g of fat has 9 cals as opposed to carbs & protein that have 4 cals, perhaps by having a word with the dietitian assigned to the diabetes clinic they might advise further.

Gary Scheiner wrote an article called Strike the Spike about reducing postprandial spikes, it might still be worthwhile you having a look:

http://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/articles/high-blood-glucose/strike-the-spike-ii/all/
Thanks, I have tried to add more fat and protein but due to my GI issues food digestion can be very slow and due to this i stay feeling full up for long periods of time which in turn makes me not want to eat as I feel full. This obviously has an extremely negative impact so I have to keep everything balanced and can't overload with fat. I do get a good intake of fats through my diet though all healthy fats.

Hi, Mr X,

I'm afraid I can offer absolutely no help with the high carb diet and insulin, but I wanted to say how welcome you are., and to bump your thread.

Hopefully some more experienced insulin users will be along soon to give their suggestions.

The only thing I can think to contribute, is that adding fibre to your shakes may slow their absorption a bit. You can get psyllium husks or something called Lepicol, and just stir them in to any drink. The powder swells up, making the drink thicker, and also slower to digest. It takes a bit of getting used to, but may be worth trying...

Thank you very much for the warm welcome! Thank you for the advice but as above I don't want to have anything that would make it too long to digest leaving my stomach fuller for longer. I need to digest as fast as possible and get as much food in!

It really is a viscious circle as if it isn't one thing it's the other stopping it. Makes it very very annoying to try and find some form of a break!
 
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Mr X

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Messages
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Type of diabetes
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Hmm...cut out the carbs from the pasta, rice, potatoes, bread. You can get them from veg too. What's the other illness you have that's making you fight for your life?
clearly you didn't read everything above?

and CF is the illness...which in turn causes a whole host of other related conditions to do with the other organs. A long list if I were to sit down and start.
 

noblehead

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Thanks, I have tried to add more fat and protein but due to my GI issues food digestion can be very slow and due to this i stay feeling full up for long periods of time which in turn makes me not want to eat as I feel full. This obviously has an extremely negative impact so I have to keep everything balanced and can't overload with fat. I do get a good intake of fats through my diet though all healthy fats.

As said yours is a complex case Mr X and I do feel that your best approach is to ask for professional advice on this matter.

The usual route to prevent postprandial spikes is to reduce the carbs, eat carbs that are lower on the gi and add some fats to the meal, as you've already tried injecting ahead of your food I don't know how you could overcome this, hence why your HCP's might be able to help here.
 
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Mr X

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Type of diabetes
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As said yours is a complex case Mr X and I do feel that your best approach is to ask for professional advice on this matter.

The usual route to prevent postprandial spikes is to reduce the carbs, eat carbs that are lower on the gi and add some fats to the meal, as you've already tried injecting ahead of your food I don't know how you could overcome this, hence why your HCP's might be able to help here.
Thanks!
 

Bazzza

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Messages
162
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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clearly you didn't read everything above?

and CF is the illness...which in turn causes a whole host of other related conditions to do with the other organs. A long list if I were to sit down and start.

In that case then you really ought to be in hospital getting medical treatment if your "literally fighting for your life" Would a hospital not seem the best and most logical place to be to get help and information how to deal with it rather than asking strangers on an internet forum how to mange a disease that no one else has or knows much about.
 

Mr X

Member
Messages
19
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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In that case then you really ought to be in hospital getting medical treatment if your "literally fighting for your life" Would a hospital not seem the best and most logical place to be to get help and information how to deal with it rather than asking strangers on an internet forum how to mange a disease that no one else has or knows much about.
Don't you think that would have been the most logical place to start?.....Don't you think I would have already covered that with my medical team HENCE writing the penultimate line of my OP saying I have exhausted each option?

and just out of curiousity how do you know where I am currently based, when I have been in hospital or what condition I am in? You don't so how can you comment on where I should be and what I should be doing?

Judging by what you wrote you expect me to be lying on the floor about to die in the next few minutes when fighting for ones life was mentioned. Many people are fighting for their lives in and out of hospital! If a terminally ill patient walks out of a hospital it doesn't make them okay! They still are fighting for their life.

And I am not asking people about managing a disease that no one knows about. I am asking about managing INSULIN doses from people with DIABETES and a DIABETES forum seems a good place for that to get as many views and as much advice all in one go from real life experiences and people trying different things that work for them...don't you think?
 
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logindetails

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I'm wondering if an insulin pump would help you control the spikes better than injections - I don't know enough about pumps but I'm sure someone who has experience with one will be along to offer advice.
As far as the Libre is concerned I recommend it for the trend data it provides which will help you in judging insulin doses and timing. Unfortunately it is not yet available on the NHS so would cost you aprox £100 per month to fund - you could always use it now and again when you can afford it.
 
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Emmotha

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reading what you just wrote tells me the meter may not be it's all cracked up to be. I am currently using the freestyle optium neo.

why wouldn't it be a substitute for the finger testing, i thought it should tell the readings and if not more?
The main reason i was interested was a long with not having to prick myself but the fact it tells you if the levels are rising or decreasing etc as it would be good to note patterns. But if it isn't reliable then may not be worth it.


And absolutely the amount of times i have to get up whilst i finally manage to get sleep to test is annoying. On paper it seems perfect.

Hello. I think eventually it will be a replacement, but at the mo ppl are saying a few things about accuracy so you wouldn't be able to rely on it alone. You probably could cut down on a lot of finger tests though. It uses the same strips as the NEO so you could use the machine to scan and for prick tests.

If you could find the money I do think it would help you to manage :)