Keto diet not for me

[ByeBye]

Well I'm with @Oldvatr on this one. If having Diabetes has taught me anything it's not to trust the medical profession to give you good advice. Mine didn't that's for sure.. Fortunately there's this excellent site and the Fung's and Unwins of the world. And as an aside, thought we'd learnt that diabetes is not a progressive decease if you treat the cause and not the symptom?

 

[Goonergal]

All, please be mindful of the forum ethos and rules when responding to posts.

This is a topic on which there are many strong views, but please respect the views of others and refrain from falling into the trading of personal insults. Rules A2, A3, A5 and B3 are particularly pertinent here. The full rules and ethos can be found here:
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/community-ethos-forum-rules.50278/

One post has already been deleted.
Any further insults or derailing posts will be edited or deleted and may incur sanctions.

 

[WackyJacky64]

I’m sorry you had so much pain.

Yes , I had pain in my joints too and my doctor told me it’s because of keto diet . Of course my BG went down but naturally if I don’t eat sugar or carb , it will go down . My suggestion is to see a nutritionist and ask for a diet that matches your system and other medical concerns .

Pls don’t listen to ppl preaching their diet . Just seek expert advise and follow it and report back so we can support each other and get inspiration. I’m much better since I started my own tailored diet . But it might not work for you .

I now eat 80~130 carbs a day and feel great , blood sugar is normal after eating and I walk an hour a day. Pain almost gone in joints but I only stopped keto in September when i became ill. My doctor and diabetic nurse are very good and agree with carb intake , blood pressure normal , so far so good.

 

[bulkbiker]

All I tried to do was to report back what I heard from several specialists.

May I ask how many cases of remission your specialists have experienced?

 

[HSSS]

@Winnie-the-Pooh whilst I appreciate what your specialists have told you and your personal decision to see them as infallible, are you aware that other qualified experts do entirely support keto and low carb diets, for diabetes amongst other reasons?

There is no complete consensus even amongst these experts. You could just as likely ended up in front of those that do support keto (the numbers are rapidly expanding as the research is published and disseminated). I wonder what you’d have chosen then?

Low fat has already failed many of us hence our trying something else - that works better for us and our advocacy of such methods, and that includes things beyond bgl and weight.

 

[aealexandrou]

I cannot comment on anyone's medical and nutritional expert. What I do know is that when I was diagnosed 6 years ago with T2D I was told next to nothing, given the Diabetes Handbook v8 that recommended upto 14 portions of starchy foods and despite annual checkups have not been given any additional medical or nutritional advice. As a result I was on metformin and gabapentin for over 5 years without any hope of improving my medical condition and having retinopathy scares in between. End of last February I went low carb, within a few weeks Keto and by the end of March intermittent fasting. My BSL are better than ever, stopped meds in April, lost 17 kilos and have never felt better. No kidney issues, no Keto flue, and no stomach issues. No one appears to have noticed that I haven't requested my prescription for the last 7 or so months.
I am sure there are other diets out there which when well regulated can improve BSL, but I found Keto and intermittent such an easy process, no calorie counting and did exactly what I expected it to do. Going back to good old fashioned whole food eating has been a bonus and cutting out the junk a doddle. I still had my Christmas pudding and a wafer of cake and know that if I maintain this lifestyle I will not miss out on the pleasure of good food.

 

[HSSS]

Keto diet lowers my blood sugar from 153 to 71 ( diabetic 2 , no insulin ).

That is good but


After 10 days of keto , I have a UTI , my kidney hurts , constant nausea, blood sugar drops to 60 , dizzy , confused , shaking , shivering , blurred vision and confusion.

So this evening, my endocrinologist doctor asked me to loosen up and my nephrologist doctor asked me to make sure I get some sugar via fruits and some cabs every day .

I love the keto good effects : low blood sugar , acne is gone , skin feels better but I cannot handle UTIs ( already have been to emergency twice due to kidney infection). So UTIs can kill me and my blood sugar constantly hovers on dangerously low values .


Anyone had this reaction to keto diet ? If so , how you find a balance .

going all the way back to post #1 to try and stay on track.

can you be certain that keto caused your uti? Or could dehydration and electrolyte imbalance have been the issue? Common side effects of keto yes, but easily solved.

Again a common but resolvable side effect is nausea due to a rapid increase in fats. We need to increase more slowly to allow the body to adjust.

10 days is nothing and yes a short term side effect can be keto flu but that doesn’t last and can be shorter or even non existent when hydration and electrolytes and fats are better balanced.

You say no insulin but are you on other meds that should have been adjusted to account for a different way of eating having been set to higher carb expectations?

It’s easy to rule out keto (or any other way of eating for that matter) if we haven’t got used to it and adjusted it to suit our own bodies/lifestyles/comorbidities when it could easily work if done correctly or with some tweeking.

It’s easy to right keto off as “dangerous” when the realities may be far far less dramatic and simple to resolve keeping all the good aspects without the bad.

 

[Oldvatr]

going all the way back to post #1 to try and stay on track.

can you be certain that keto caused your uti? Or could dehydration and electrolyte imbalance have been the issue? Common side effects of keto yes, but easily solved.

Again a common but resolvable side effect is nausea due to a rapid increase in fats. We need to increase more slowly to allow the body to adjust.

10 days is nothing and yes a short term side effect can be keto flu but that doesn’t last and can be shorter or even non existent when hydration and electrolytes and fats are better balanced.

You say no insulin but are you on other meds that should have been adjusted to account for a different way of eating having been set to higher carb expectations?

It’s easy to rule out keto (or any other way of eating for that matter) if we haven’t got used to it and adjusted it to suit our own bodies/lifestyles/comorbidities when it could easily work if done correctly or with some tweeking.

It’s easy to right keto off as “dangerous” when the realities may be far far less dramatic and simple to resolve keeping all the good aspects without the bad.

Sorry to be a pedant. but I dont think uti;'s are caused by either diabetes, sugar or a keto diet. They are normally bacterial infections and are generally associated with the E coli bacterium. Where diabetes comes into it is that there is an increased risk due to diabetics being more likely to excrete glucose in the wee, and the bacteria feed on the sugar and grow faster. On the other hand, a keto diet should reduce that source of nutrient and help prevent a uti growing. However there is one way changing to keto diet may be playing a part and that is that you may be ingesting more yeast products in the new diet than before, or that the increase in veggie and/ or meat or dairy intake could have exposed you to more e coli. We all get exposed to e coli nowadays so uti's are on the increase naturally, and not just in the LC brigades.

Edit to add: most of us are carriers of Candida Albicans, which is a yeast naturally occurring in our guts, It also feeds on glucose, but can remain dormant for years. Changes in gut flora can trigger it into action, so any change in diet long term can trigger an attack. Again, it is not keto per se that may have triggered this, but the dramatic change in diet to any other diet may have done the same.

 

[Winnie-the-Pooh]

I’m not going to edit a post . But I remove it so ppl don’t jump on my neck ! Go and see your doctor if u have kidney pain .

 

[bulkbiker]

Uti is listed as side effect of metformin .

I've just been through 6 websites on metformin side effects yet not one mentioned UTI.. odd..

 

[lucylocket61]

Uti is listed as side effect of metformin .
I can see that myself and a nephrologist told me so . She described the process by which it can cause uti . There are two reasons it can make you get UTI much easier .


Edited by moderator

Dapagliflozin and Metformin combination medication can cause the symptoms you list, not Metformin on its own.

 

[Resurgam]

From my early 20s I had drs raving at me about the dangers of low carb eating - handing me low fat high carb low calorie diet sheets, and 4 decades later I was hugely overweight - almost spherical, unable to work or even walk far, sleeping in the afternoons, and full on diabetic.
As soon as I was sneeringly told I was a very bad diabetic, I went low carb. The change was swift - though the tablets did me no good. Three years later I am back at work and feeling half my age. Changed nothing but my diet, and tossed the tablets in the bin.
Dr isn't even speaking to me - suspect he's sulking.
It is simply not logical to continue to repeat the behaviour which failed me so spectacularly for so long when doing what I was told had to be wrong work so wonderfully well, every time I return to what I can see and feel restores me to good health and well being.
I had to run around to the clinic recently, to pick up something at the desk - bounced in doing my usual imitation of a Tigger and encountered the nurse I've seen a few times over the years - her expression when she recognized me was absolutely priceless. 'You're looking well' she managed. I laughed and wished her Merry Christmas.

 

[Winnie-the-Pooh]

Dapagliflozin and Metformin combination medication can cause the symptoms you list, not Metformin on its own.

I have no idea about the combo drug you found out. Never heard of it.

Also if the public on an Internet forum know better that a professor of nephrology, then let’s agree to disagree . The side effects are due to a chemical mechanism that they can describe to you ( some enzymes in urine ) plus the fact that metformin works in the gut. Ask your nephrologist. I asked mine . Make your own conclusions. I made mine.

Other option for us is to go get 14 yrs of university education in general medicine , then internal medicine and then finally nephrology and come back to post here , assuming everyone has the mental capacity and motivation for it. I did those yrs already in a different area so not willing to redo it . Have no motivation for a second round !

 

[Antje77]

Uti is listed as side effect of metformin .

If it is, please provide a source other than one single nephrologist.
Our admin team hasn't been able to find one either, and it doesn't do to inform people of side effects that aren't known, let alone listed.

 

[HSSS]

I have no idea about the combo drug you found out. Never heard of it.

Also if the public on an Internet forum know better that a professor of nephrology, then let’s agree to disagree . The side effects are due to a chemical mechanism that they can describe to you ( some enzymes in urine ) plus the fact that metformin works in the gut. Ask your nephrologist. I asked mine . Make your own conclusions. I made mine.

Other option for us is to go get 14 yrs of university education in general medicine , then internal medicine and then finally nephrology and come back to post here , assuming everyone has the mental capacity and motivation for it. I did those yrs already in a different area so not willing to redo it . Have no motivation for a second round !

Do you really believe that every single phd holder knows everything there is to know on a subject and is infallible?

In my opinion this is why medicine can stagnant and arrogance can set in. The belief that Drs are gods in white coats that know everything. Challenging current beliefs is a good thing to progress knowledge and ensure broad and comprehensive thinking.

Ps. Here in the U.K. very few diabetics will see a nephrologist, especially just for a metformin prescription.

 

[Winnie-the-Pooh]

If it is, please provide a source other than one single nephrologist.
Our admin team hasn't been able to find one either, and it doesn't do to inform people of side effects that aren't known, let alone listed.

I saw it on Christmas Day when I was in hospital for this reason in agony . I cannot remember the key words I put in . But as soon as I saw uti , that prompted me to call my nephrologist on her personal phone and ask . I did not know that I get harassed here later on .

Here is the story . I had no uti in many yrs. Right after I started metformin, I got darkened urine , burning , flank pain and difficulty with urinating . Every time I would stop metformin and would drink water and cranberry juice and antibiotics and it would heal till last time it landed me in hospital .

Every time when I stoped metformin I was ok , then on the start I was sick again . I lowered the dose , now I’m ok .

My nephrologist told me it is more of a secondary side effect due to its mechanism and told me how and told me what to take to prevent it .

Metformin also makes u more prone to infections it seems. She said util with metformin is very rare but she has seen it before . She also called a professor of pharmacology for me as they liked the science behind it. It was not trivial for them either and they have not tested their hypothesis since it’s rare . But it makes sense to me an to them .

I will try to find the link and post it when I can but I’m not a doctor and I don’t know medicine and I’m not going to imply metformin can have the same side effect in others .


I don’t feel safe to post my own experience and what my doctor tells me if others don’t seek advice of their own and want me to do their doctors job . I’m not responsible for what I experience or what my doctor tells me . I don’t need to prove anything to anyone. So please go and ask for yourself . Don’t ever consider my post as evidence . I am a mathematician and no nothing about medicine . I hope it’s clear .


But as for the link it was a typical medicine side effect website that comes up . I was in hospital so I did not save it or took notice of it or validate it. I was in agony so all I needed was to see it on my phone, to contact my nephrologist. I usually don’t trust these websites since side effects they report often comes from public and not a meta analysis. You should not trust them either . Always contact your doctor . Always .


I repeat it again . If you don’t have a speciality in nephrology or urology , go and ask a doctor . My doctor advice to me is between me and her and based on my other medical issues I don’t share . It might not apply to anyone else .

I am lucky to have best insurance possible in US. So my medical expenses are almost nothing and I can see as many doctors as I want and get the best care possible . So I understand others might want to limit doctor visits but sadly it is not the best money saving strategy . Please see doctors if you need advice .

 

[Antje77]

Here is the story . I had no uti in many yrs. Right after I started metformin, I got darkened urine , burning , flank pain and difficulty with urinating . Every time I would stop metformin and would drink water and cranberry juice and antibiotics and it would heal till last time it landed me in hospital .

I don’t feel safe to post my own experience and what my doctor tells me

It's perfectly fine to share your own experience and what your doctors tell you.

What is not fine is to translate that N=1 to a statement like:

Uti is listed as side effect of metformin .

, especially when no-one seems to be able to find a place where it's listed as a side effect.

Please edit your post to say that you and your nephrologist believe UTI is a side effect of metformin.

 

[Winnie-the-Pooh]

Maybe every one should learn to search for themselves. If they cannot find it or don’t believe it or don’t want to see a doctor , then their health , their business.

 

[HSSS]

Maybe every one should learn to search for themselves. If they cannot find it or don’t believe it or don’t want to see a doctor , then their health , their business.

You are missing the point here and the irony is strong. You are stating your experience as medical fact and thereby doing what you accuse the rest of us of doing. Ie giving medical advice. We do not doubt what you have experienced or what individual doctors or websites may have told you. However you state your experience as medical fact but fail to provide evidence of such.

Money saving is not the issue with regard to seeing drs in the U.K. it simply doesn’t work that way here.

Not everyone has your blind faith in doctors, justified, experiential or otherwise.

I’m sorry you were in pain and in hospital.

it’s possible, should you wish to, that your browsing history will give you the details of the links you went to.

 

[Listlad]

Eatwell helped but was not good enough. Lower carb higher fat brought my blood sugar levels down to normal levels, brought my weight down and reduced my blood pressure considerably. Whilst I don’t practice keto, by keeping my carb level to less than 130 grams per day worked for me. I don’t need that to be peer reviewed or approved at Phd level.