Low carb and putting on weight

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NIC703

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I have so many questions today !!

By eating more protein in the way of meat, cheese and eggs surley I will pile on lots of weight?

Can anyone explain ?
 

sweetLea

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No. If you think about the Atkins diet then you will realise that you are more likely to lose weight low carbing and eating lots of proteins and fats. :D
 

Dillinger

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Hi Nic,

Well - you have inadvertently strayed into a very hotly debated area with this question.

The traditional advice from the NHS is that fat is the thing to be avoided; weight gain is a simple process of not using as many calories as you consume. The solution to being overweight then comes down to eating less and moving more. Fat has more calories than protein and carbs so is the key one to reduce in your diet. Simple really.

Except the above is a load of rubbish and doesn't take into account the reasons why we get fat. It is well known that there is only one hormone in our bodies responsible for creating fat and that is insulin. The more glucose in the blood we have the more insulin we need to deal with it; and the more insulin we have the more fat is laid down. Increasing your carbohydrate consumption means increasing the amount of fat you are creating. Insulin also inhibits fat from being metabolised by the body.

So, the alternative reality that so many of us promote is; forget about all the fat and protein worries you have, eat more of them and less of the carbs and you will need to inject less insulin if you are Type 1 and produce less insulin if you are Type 2. Less insulin means less fat creation and if you are eating a low enough amount of carbs then your body will naturally start to metabolise your fat reserves; hence weight loss.

It is this idea that the Atkins diet is based on and what a number of other popular diets; the South beach diet, the Paleo diet and so on.

Give it a try and see how you go. Lots of people just say 'eat in moderation' and that is fine, but the key thing is is to drop the carb content of your diet to such an extent that your insulin levels come down and your body can start shifting fat.

Best

Dillinger
 

borofergie

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NIC703 said:
YIPEEEEEE, thats what I wanted to hear :clap:

In addition to what Dillinger just said (all of which I agree with), including more fat and more protein in your diet will probably help fill you up more than "quick burn carbs", meaning that you'll probably end up eating less total calories anyway, so it's like a double whammy.
 

NIC703

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Far to good to be true, yummy foods that were once forbidden, better control of my BS and weight loss.
 

kareeta

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Dillinger said:
Hi Nic,

Well - you have inadvertently strayed into a very hotly debated area with this question.

The traditional advice from the NHS is that fat is the thing to be avoided; weight gain is a simple process of not using as many calories as you consume. The solution to being overweight then comes down to eating less and moving more. Fat has more calories than protein and carbs so is the key one to reduce in your diet. Simple really.

Except the above is a load of rubbish and doesn't take into account the reasons why we get fat. It is well known that there is only one hormone in our bodies responsible for creating fat and that is insulin. The more glucose in the blood we have the more insulin we need to deal with it; and the more insulin we have the more fat is laid down. Increasing your carbohydrate consumption means increasing the amount of fat you are creating. Insulin also inhibits fat from being metabolised by the body.

So, the alternative reality that so many of us promote is; forget about all the fat and protein worries you have, eat more of them and less of the carbs and you will need to inject less insulin if you are Type 1 and produce less insulin if you are Type 2. Less insulin means less fat creation and if you are eating a low enough amount of carbs then your body will naturally start to metabolise your fat reserves; hence weight loss.

It is this idea that the Atkins diet is based on and what a number of other popular diets; the South beach diet, the Paleo diet and so on.

Give it a try and see how you go. Lots of people just say 'eat in moderation' and that is fine, but the key thing is is to drop the carb content of your diet to such an extent that your insulin levels come down and your body can start shifting fat.

Best

Dillinger

Fantastic informative post, many thanks. I just need to figure out a daily diet that is sustainable with 50g carbs or less.
Will have a mosey through my South Beach book tonight. :clap:
 

Sid Bonkers

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Dillinger said:
Except the above is a load of rubbish and doesn't take into account the reasons why we get fat. It is well known that there is only one hormone in our bodies responsible for creating fat and that is insulin. The more glucose in the blood we have the more insulin we need to deal with it; and the more insulin we have the more fat is laid down. Increasing your carbohydrate consumption means increasing the amount of fat you are creating. Insulin also inhibits fat from being metabolised by the body.

[mod edit]

However how do you account for overweight diabetics who have impaired pancreatic function, surely with less insulin they should all be super slim? No the fact is if you eat more calories than you burn you will not lose weight regardless of whether you eat more or less fat/carbs/protein. Carb control may be key to diabetic control but calorie control is the key to weight loss :thumbup:
 

borofergie

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Sid Bonkers said:
However how do you account for overweight diabetics who have impaired pancreatic function, surely with less insulin they should all be super slim? No the fact is if you eat more calories than you burn you will not lose weight regardless of whether you eat more or less fat/carbs/protein. Carb control may be key to diabetic control but calorie control is the key to weight loss :thumbup:

Most (but not all) Overweight Diabetics are the insulin resistant type. We end up pumping out much more insulin to deal with our chronically elevated BG. The problem for most of us is that we produce too much insulin not too little (which is why we're mostly fat). That's what burns the beta cells out, and eventually leads to the pancreas packing up, at which point they either go onto insulin, or stop being obese very quickly.

Have you actually read the Taubes book Sid?
 

Dillinger

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What Borofergie said - those diabetics have a vastly increased amount of insulin hence the weight, the point being demonstrated the other way with pre-diagnosis Type 1's - where no or very little insulin is present; what happens? They lose vast amounts of weight (and get very ill).
 

xyzzy

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Look sid, borofergie, Dillinger, ?Eddie?

I don't understand at all. I get exactly what all of you are saying which makes no sense.

Tell me if I turned into Mr Mouse and just ate say 3500 calories of cheese a day and did no exercise would I put on weight? Let's assume the cheese causes a minimal insulin reaction.

The logical answer to me is yes I would but I'd like to understand why at a more fundamental level. As I say all your arguments kind of make sense at the moment. :crazy:
 

borofergie

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xyzzy said:
Tell me if I turned into Mr Mouse and just ate say 3500 calories of cheese a day and did no exercise would I put on weight? Let's assume the cheese causes a minimal insulin reaction.

No. You'd be dead. Man cannot live on cheese alone.

Even if you didn't you'd probably get fat. No-one is saying that you can't deliberately overfeed yourself to obesity. It works for Fois Gras bound geese and it's work for you. But that's completely irrelevant. Almost nobody chooses to make themselves obese.

What we're talking about is more subtle than that. If your insulin levels are continually high, most of the energy you eat gets stored as fat, and so, even though you've eaten a big meal, there not much of the glucose is getting used as energy by your muscles and your brain.

The consequence is that you are both lethargic (because you don't have any spare energy for running around) and hungry, because your body is craving energy which is now locked up as fat. Which is the start of a vicous circle - you exercise less, and eat more, not because you are lazy and greedy, but because that's what your hormones are making your body do.

When you are on a ketogenic diet, your insulin levels are almost always low, so your body burns fat for it's energy (plus a small amount of manufactured glucose).
 

noblehead

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Dillinger said:
The traditional advice from the NHS is that fat is the thing to be avoided; weight gain is a simple process of not using as many calories as you consume. The solution to being overweight then comes down to eating less and moving more. Fat has more calories than protein and carbs so is the key one to reduce in your diet. Simple really.


I can only talk from experience but reducing the calories in my diet helped me lose just over 2 stone in 18 months, my insulin requirements altered very little in this time and if I'm not mistaken Dillinger both you and I are on similar doses of insulin despite us both being miles apart in our carbohydrate intake.

I've said before on numerous occasions that a breakfast of eggs and bacon needs as much insulin as my preferred breakfast of porridge, yogurt, seeds and blueberries, my TDD is currently 36 units which I don't see as being excessive in anyway, I'm a firm believer that moderation is the key when it comes to carbs, fat & protein.
 

philc

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This issue is covered by Gary Taubes in his book "Good Calories Bad calories". Scientific research into fattening diets proved that people eating more than 5000 calories per day could still lose weight. This was achieved via a combination of protein and fats but no carbs. In fact, one of the most interesting aspects of the study was that it was very difficult for those in the sample to eat so many calories from this source. The food on offer was unlimited amounts of meat and fish but they basically just got full up...but still lost weight.

Contrast that with the sumo wrestlers of Japan. A 1976 University of Tokyo study into the diet of the elite group of sumo wrestlers revealed that they ate on average 5,500 calories per day, mostly gained from a pork stew called "chanko nabe". Guess what? The highest nutritional content in the stew was 57% carbohydrates and only 16% fat. Yet more proof that a low fat high carb diet makes you fat! Essential if you're a sumo wrestler!
 

Sid Bonkers

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philc said:
This issue is covered by Gary Taubes in his book "Good Calories Bad calories". Scientific research into fattening diets proved that people eating more than 5000 calories per day could still lose weight.

And what scientific research was this then? I wasnt aware that Taubes was a doctor involved in research!!!
borofergie said:
Have you actually read the Taubes book Sid?


No Stephen, why would I, I tend to believe what the medical profession believe rather than what some maverick with a 'feory' says ...
 

borofergie

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Sid Bonkers said:
And what scientific research was this then? I wasnt aware that Taubes was a doctor involved in research!!!

Read his book, and you'll find out.

borofergie said:
No Stephen, why would I, I tend to believe what the medical profession believe rather than what some maverick with a 'feory' says ...

OK, I understand. How can you say you don't like his "feories", when you don't know what they are?
 

Defren

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borofergie said:
NIC703 said:
YIPEEEEEE, thats what I wanted to hear :clap:

In addition to what Dillinger just said (all of which I agree with), including more fat and more protein in your diet will probably help fill you up more than "quick burn carbs", meaning that you'll probably end up eating less total calories anyway, so it's like a double whammy.

I couldn't agree more with this. I started very low carbs, high protein and middling fat a week last Tuesday. I have gone from being a foodie, to struggling to have any kind of appetite. I am on Metformin which is an appetite suppressant, but even so, all I manage is a tiny breakfast and I really struggle to eat anything, a very small lunch (today I have a meal replacement shake) but I did manage a dinner of almost all veg (I rolled corn on the cob in homemade garlic butter for a little fat). I will have a slice of Burgen bread with a spread and peanut butter before bed, as this I have found helps my fasting level.
 

borofergie

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Another thread derailed...
A forum for those that low-carb, and those that wish to learn more about low-carbing. Please do not come into this forum to debate the validity of low-carbing - this forum is for those that wish to learn more and exchange ideas.

NIC703, as Nigel and Sid are saying it is about calories-in vs calories-out. You have to eat more calories than you burn to get fat. You have to burn more calories than you eat to get slimmer. Everyone agrees on that. It's a fundamental law of physics (The First Law of Thermodynamics). But it doesn't help you much, if you can't control either your calories in, or your calories out.

Why do some people consume more calories than other? Either you accept that all obese people are either greedy or lazy, or you realise that the amount of energy that you have for fat storage or exercise is mostly determined by your hormonal response to the food you eat.

Why do tall people get tall? Is it because they eat too much, or because of their hormones?

Everyone knows skinny people who eat lots of junk food and never exercise. Everyone knows fat people that can never lose weight no matter how much they cut calories and increae exercise. If it was as simple as calorie reducion, then everyone would be slim, and we wouldn't be in the middle of an obesity epidemic.
 

Sid Bonkers

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borofergie said:
Another thread derailed...

By which you mean that some people have differing views from those you hold I assume?

A forum for those that low-carb, and those that wish to learn more about low-carbing. Please do not come into this forum to debate the validity of low-carbing - this forum is for those that wish to learn more and exchange ideas.

Who's debating the validity of low carbing, I low carb myself, just not to the extremes that you do. Have you even considered that some people may be interested in what I have to say? :)

borofergie said:
NIC703, as Nigel and Sid are saying it is about calories-in vs calories-out. You have to eat more calories than you burn to get fat. You have to burn more calories than you eat to get slimmer. Everyone agrees on that. It's a fundamental law of physics (The First Law of Thermodynamics).

So what is it you are you disagreeing with in what I have said?

borofergie said:
The question is why do some people consume more calories than other?

The £1,000,000 question and one that no one knows for sure, some people eat as an emotional response, others, who knows, certainly not Taubes/Groves etc

borofergie said:
Either you accept that all obese people are either greedy or lazy, or you realise that the amount of energy that you have for fat storage or exercise is determined by your hormonal response to the food you eat.

But you have already agreed that the amount of energy you have for fat storage is dependant on the amount of food you eat.......see above, "You have to eat more calories than you burn to get fat. You have to burn more calories than you eat to get slimmer" your words not mine. And why do I have to accept that people are either greedy or lazy or that it is determined by their hormonal response to the food they eat, yes that will be true in some cases, some people may have thyroid problems or other hormonal problems which may affect their weight but that does not apply to everyone. As I've already said no one has all the pieces to the jigsaw yet, not even Taubes I'm afraid.

borofergie said:
If it was as simple as cutting calories, then everyone would be slim, and we wouldn't be in the middle of an obesity epidemic.

No one has said it is simple to cut calories, in fact it can be very, very difficult to break the habits of a life time, although it is possible, but I expect I am wrong about that as well :lol:
 

Sid Bonkers

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borofergie said:
Sid said:
No Stephen, why would I, I tend to believe what the medical profession believe rather than what some maverick with a 'feory' says ...

OK, I understand. How can you say you don't like his "feories", when you don't know what they are?

Because I watched his video Stephen, where he talks about his theory and I didnt think he was correct in what he said, can you not accept that I do not hold the same views as you. OK I was being flippant and trying to belittle him by saying "feory" 'in inverted commas' and I accept that was rather childish of me, but I just do not agree with him, is that a crime?
 
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