Article in Thursday,s Daily Mail

[chris lowe]

If walking is such a great cure how come our local traffic warden is still a fat b*****d? (No I'm not bitter, just saying)

 

[Agraham1826]

I have bolded a bit of your reply, as I think it may also be a good idea for you to have a read up on the current thinking about diets, fats, and heart risk.

"Research makes it clear that abnormal blood lipid (fat) levels have a strong correlation with the risk of coronary artery disease, heart attack and coronary death. In turn, abnormal blood lipids are related to what you eat. A diet high in saturated fats (e.g. cheese) and trans fats (often used in cakes, cookies and fast food) leads to high levels of cholesterol." - World Heart Federation

"The American Heart Association recommends limiting saturated fats – which are found in butter, cheese, red meat and other animal-based foods. Decades of sound science has proven it can raise your “bad” cholesterol and put you at higher risk for heart disease."

"fats, too much saturated fat can increase the amount of cholesterol in your blood, which can increase your risk of developing coronary heart disease." Foundation British Heart Foundation

Like I said increases risk not set in stone, I really have no idea what your issue is. Im in no way judging anyone I consume way to many carbs/fat/sugar but you cant deny diet has an effect on your health in the vast majority of people so maybe jump of that high horse of yours instead of jumping down my throat. I have said nothing that is offensive or rude and your patronising attitude is ridiculous keyboard warrior. This forum is about sharing information, offering a different perspective and giving opinion not jumping down peoples throats when I have said nothing that isn't proven by both well renowned diabetes research. My granddad died at 72 of a heart attack two of his 18 siblings have also died of a heart attack yes it may run in my family but I do know the fried breakfast he ate every morning, the stodgy pies he ate at his butches and the fried chips etc he ate every single day didn't help at all. Im not judging anyones diet because that would make me a giant hypocrite I eat extremely unhealthy on a weekend it isn't good for my Diabetes, yes my type 1, which is also effected by my bad diet so maybe just calm down and stop being so defensive.

oh and also only because a couple articles say it may not be linked to heart problems doesn't make the thousands upon thousands of research not true, it wouldn't even matter if it is true no matter what a healthier diet is always better for your health anyway for another billion reasons we are all different we have different bodies, different brains which makes us act in a different way towards life a food. I may not always follow a healthy diet but i'm not kidding myself its not healthier than a bad one just because I don't follow it perfectly and feel I have to justify myself.

 

[Agraham1826]

I am in T2 category because that's what I am! I ate the wrong foods because that's what the recommended diet was for many years - low fat, low calorie. That's a bad lifestyle choice! I was active until I suffered from depression and ME, so I was forced to become 'lazy'. I went to my GP for help to lose weight. The diets I was given didn't work. One of them was the GI diet. I put on weight on it and had to give up after 2 weeks because I couldn't afford to put on any more pounds. At that time I had been gaining 7 pounds a year. I gained 8 pounds in just 2 weeks by following the GI diet and the recommended portion sizes.

My husband went to the same GP about a minor illness and was told 'Keep on doing whatever you are doing' So he did. He ate 6 Snickers bars that night 'just because they were there' He is slim and not T2. My diet has always been healthier than his and I exercise just as much as him, sometimes more, yet I am the one criticised for how I look.

T2 is also a condition where our bodies don't function properly.

I also have CFS/ME I find it really hard with weight/depression/sleep and I cant walk up the stairs without that lead legs feeling. I am agreeing with you totally we are all born with different genes my sister eats a lot more than I do and she is a lot slimmer than I am. Diet didn't work for me I only lost weight because I had a really bad kidney infection a year an a half ago and now I still get nauseous now my stomach has never been the same. You should never be criticised for how you look because I can guarantee there is nothing wrong with your appearance , people who do that have a warped perception of beauty. I don't why you misunderstood me but I was agreeing with you saying T2 is also where your body doesn't function properly I was defending that fact people have such a warped view that T1 and T2 are different in that way but they are not. Sorry if you thought I was!

And quick thing is you aren't forced to be "lazy"you aren't lazy at all I know a lot of us with ME are the opposite of lazy even doing a simple normal run of the mill day is hard, the fact we keep trying is evidence of the fact we are anything but lazy we are stronger than most.

 

[Brunneria]

oh and also only because a couple articles say it may not be linked to heart problems doesn't make the thousands upon thousands of research not true, .

Actually, the old research was based on fallacies, and those organisations you quoted are lagging waaaayyyy behind with their research and evidence. Probably because they have been giving out advice based on bad science for decades, and they are reluctant to admit they are wrong.

If you want the whole sad story of selective research, scientific egos, and misinformation, then this book is a good read:
https://thebigfatsurprise.com/

This is an extract from the Credit Suisse Report on the subject from the end of 2015
"We found that 40% of nutritionists and 70% of general practitioners surveyed believe that eating cholesterol-rich foods has damaging cardiovascular effects. This is not true, according to the extensive research that has become available in recent years. Furthermore, they have limited knowledge of the potential benefits and risks of increased fat consumption,” said Giles Keating, Vice Chairman of Investment Strategy & Research and Deputy Global Chief Investment Officer for Private Banking & Wealth Management. “There is a concerning knowledge gap between the facts on fat and what consumers have been told."

The whole field of cholesterol and diet and heart disease is undergoing a seismic upheaval, as more and more people realise just how wrong the old advice has been. It isn't just a couple of articles that say this. It is hugely supported across study after study, in a way that the old 'saturated fat is a stab in the heart' thinking was never supported by science or logic.

You don't have to accept it. No one has to take on new information if they don't want to, but I am afraid that the new evidence is clear and compelling for those of us who are willing to read it in depth.

This is a useful overview.
http://www.zoeharcombe.com/the-knowledge/we-have-got-cholesterol-completely-wrong/

 

[Agraham1826]

Actually, the old research was based on fallacies, and those organisations you quoted are lagging waaaayyyy behind with their research and evidence. Probably because they have been giving out advice based on bad science for decades, and they are reluctant to admit they are wrong.

If you want the whole sad story of selective research, scientific egos, and misinformation, then this book is a good read:
https://thebigfatsurprise.com/

This is an extract from the Credit Suisse Report on the subject from the end of 2015
"We found that 40% of nutritionists and 70% of general practitioners surveyed believe that eating cholesterol-rich foods has damaging cardiovascular effects. This is not true, according to the extensive research that has become available in recent years. Furthermore, they have limited knowledge of the potential benefits and risks of increased fat consumption,” said Giles Keating, Vice Chairman of Investment Strategy & Research and Deputy Global Chief Investment Officer for Private Banking & Wealth Management. “There is a concerning knowledge gap between the facts on fat and what consumers have been told."

The whole field of cholesterol and diet and heart disease is undergoing a seismic upheaval, as more and more people realise just how wrong the old advice has been. It isn't just a couple of articles that say this. It is hugely supported across study after study, in a way that the old 'saturated fat is a stab in the heart' thinking was never supported by science or logic.

You don't have to accept it. No one has to take on new information if they don't want to, but I am afraid that the new evidence is clear and compelling for those of us who are willing to read it in depth.

This is a useful overview.
http://www.zoeharcombe.com/the-knowledge/we-have-got-cholesterol-completely-wrong/

This is interesting but it still doesn't justify bad diet, this point was picked out of a lot of other examples by some picking a fight about nothing. Thanks for the info, i am very open to new ideas thanks I will take a look

 

[Brunneria]

Thanks. Sorry if that looked like a lecture. It wasn't intended as one, but it seemed to come out that way. Past my bedtime!

I think the main takeaway on the whole Fat/Diet/Heart thing is (to my understanding) that fat is OK so long as it is unprocessed, natural, and not too heavy on the polyunsaturated fats. The advice about mono unsaturated being good for us (olive oil) is still great, but there is a shift away from seeing saturated fats as being Evil Incarnate.

 

[donnellysdogs]

I think we are better off on:

1) no ready meals;
2) natural, no additive etc foods..
3) veg,fruit and meat is all allowed on a tea plate...
4) small amounts of fat is ok..whether its lard,coconut, olive etc...
5) dairy is ok if tolerated
6) avoid pasta, bread and rice,although occasionally a roll can be nice..

Dont make your self miserable.

 

[bulkbiker]

This is interesting but it still doesn't justify bad diet, this point was picked out of a lot of other examples by some picking a fight about nothing. Thanks for the info, i am very open to new ideas thanks I will take a look

No-one was trying to pick a fight we were saying that the demonisation of fat now appears to be unjustified. Fat when consumed with carbs is bad yes but a bacon and egg fried breakfast will have a much better effect on your blood sugar than cereal. Even the recently retired president of the World Heart Federation gave a speech recently (Jan 2017) where he stated that too many carbs are bad for you and some fats (natural not man made) can have a beneficial health impact. Also there is less all cause mortality with higher cholesterol so lowering cholesterol increases your chances of death.. especially for women.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I think it is sad that there is a sort of ground swell of "knowledge" brought about by decades of mis-information which makes people think that they instinctively know what is a good and bad diet.

The whole basis of LCHF is that fat is good for you, and carbohydrates can be bad for you.

Ancel Keyes and his "you are what you eat" which led people to believe that if you ate cholesterol then your blood filled with cholesterol has done untold harm.

Current research suggests that the body makes its own cholesterol from its own fat.
Where does it get the fat?
Mainly from carbohydrates; once the very limited glycogen store in your body is full the carbohydrates are stored as fat.
So high carbohydrate can lead to high cholesterol.

 

[Art Of Flowers]

Deaths from diabetic related illness dropped dramatically in WW1 and WW2 due to rationing resulting in people eating a lot less.

During the Great Depression in the between 1929 and 1932 life expectancy increased by six years ... see http://ur.umich.edu/0910/Oct05_09/19.php

The Great Depression had a silver lining: During that hard time, U.S. life expectancy increased by 6.2 years, researchers say. Life expectancy rose from 57.1 in 1929 to 63.3 years in 1932, according to the analysis by U-M researchers José A.
​

People can dramatically improve type 2 diabetes, general health and live a lot longer if you eat less or do intermittent fasting.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Deaths from diabetic related illness dropped dramatically in WW1 and WW2 due to rationing resulting in people eating a lot less.

During the Great Depression in the between 1929 and 1932 life expectancy increased by six years ... see http://ur.umich.edu/0910/Oct05_09/19.php

The Great Depression had a silver lining: During that hard time, U.S. life expectancy increased by 6.2 years, researchers say. Life expectancy rose from 57.1 in 1929 to 63.3 years in 1932, according to the analysis by U-M researchers José A.
​

People can dramatically improve type 2 diabetes, general health and live a lot longer if you eat less or do intermittent fasting.

If I was a touch cynical (Moi?) I might wonder if the death certificates that read "acute lead poisoning" or "missing head" perhaps failed to mention diabetes as a contributing cause?

Yes, if you are forced to live on the kind of diet which is recommended (by some) to reduce the effects of diabetes then you may not show the symptoms.

Sadly, I think I would rather have diabetes than live through two world wars.
Certainly not the Spanish Flu in 1919 which carried off diabetics and non-diabetics alike in huge numbers.

Edit: my failing memory suggests that the diet in WW2 at least was carbohydrate heavy and protein light; meat and eggs were rationed.

 

[kokhongw]

The decades of misguided fear of saturated fats and ketosis created the chasm that continues to keeps millions of T2D away from the oasis of glucose AND insulin normalization.

It took more than blind reckless courage to leap across this divide, Unfortunately most ,including Sir Muir, continues fueling the myth that it is self inflicted lack of actitivity, and not misguidance that have left many families lost, struggling and hopeless in the desert and wildiness of this condition's many dreadful complications..many of us here are the fortunate few who have stumbled upon information and connected to life experiences that helped us made that leap and discovered otherwise.

I am glad this community is one of the few in the world that is actively building the necessary bridges to help these millions to cross the divide with its successful Low Carb program.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Sir Muir believes that the key to good health is standing rather than sitting whenever possible, because sitting too much results in too much inflammation, and ‘inflammation is thought to be the cause of many diseases – type 2 diabetes, dementia, vascular disease – most common problems.’ I think he's wrong, although I don't have a knighthood.

 

[serenity648]

Sir Muir believes that the key to good health is standing rather than sitting whenever possible, because sitting too much results in too much inflammation, and ‘inflammation is thought to be the cause of many diseases – type 2 diabetes, dementia, vascular disease – most common problems.’ I think he's wrong, although I don't have a knighthood.

I cant see my daughters office manager being too happy at her saying she is not going to sit for long. Or the local call centre manager - where the staff are penalised for toilet breaks. Who writes this bull anyway????????

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

I cant see my daughters office manager being too happy at her saying she is not going to sit for long. Or the local call centre manager - where the staff are penalised for toilet breaks. Who writes this bull anyway????????

People seem to like to take an idea that seems to make some sense, then run with it ignoring any other information to the contrary of that idea or any other ideas at all.

 

[Agraham1826]

Thanks. Sorry if that looked like a lecture. It wasn't intended as one, but it seemed to come out that way. Past my bedtime!

I think the main takeaway on the whole Fat/Diet/Heart thing is (to my understanding) that fat is OK so long as it is unprocessed, natural, and not too heavy on the polyunsaturated fats. The advice about mono unsaturated being good for us (olive oil) is still great, but there is a shift away from seeing saturated fats as being Evil Incarnate.

Im hoping your right with the amount of KFC and Mc Donalds I had this week

I think it must also depend on the person for example I "technically" have high cholesterol, but its my good cholesterol which is HDL but my LDL and Triglycerides are all at a good level. I think its likely we are all born with different "normal" levels I may eat the same thing as another person but they could have high LDL etc I think eating badly effects people in different ways as your more prone to different things.

And PS. I appreciate your view this is why we are on the forum to educate and support each other I didn't think you were lecturing.

 

[Agraham1826]

No-one was trying to pick a fight we were saying that the demonisation of fat now appears to be unjustified. Fat when consumed with carbs is bad yes but a bacon and egg fried breakfast will have a much better effect on your blood sugar than cereal. Even the recently retired president of the World Heart Federation gave a speech recently (Jan 2017) where he stated that too many carbs are bad for you and some fats (natural not man made) can have a beneficial health impact. Also there is less all cause mortality with higher cholesterol so lowering cholesterol increases your chances of death.. especially for women.

I understand this but this was far from my point my original post wasn't about this, I appreciate your insight and have actually looked into it a lot more now but this was a very small thing on a list of common health problems I wasn't even on about heart problems originally a lot of people focus on one tiny point to mask the fact that a lot of the rest makes a lot of sense It was a small comment, I should have educated myself more granted, but it wasn't even originally about this. Thank You

 

[Agraham1826]

Deaths from diabetic related illness dropped dramatically in WW1 and WW2 due to rationing resulting in people eating a lot less.

During the Great Depression in the between 1929 and 1932 life expectancy increased by six years ... see http://ur.umich.edu/0910/Oct05_09/19.php

The Great Depression had a silver lining: During that hard time, U.S. life expectancy increased by 6.2 years, researchers say. Life expectancy rose from 57.1 in 1929 to 63.3 years in 1932, according to the analysis by U-M researchers José A.
​

People can dramatically improve type 2 diabetes, general health and live a lot longer if you eat less or do intermittent fasting.

Wanted to give an "Interesting" reaction but you cant. Maybe rationing isn't the way forward haha but this really shows something!

 

[MikeTurin]

Wanted to give an "Interesting" reaction but you cant. Maybe rationing isn't the way forward haha but this really shows something!

I think, and medical literature agrees with me, that dietary changes happened after WWII could be the cause, not the rationing itself. Read the presence of a lot of food but of low quality.

Documentary on food processing and use of added sugar, salt and fats in industrial food processing (in Italian)
http://www.raiplay.it/video/2017/03...ena-9d1dc689-8eca-4d96-a623-07f14411494d.html

 

[Agraham1826]

I think, and medical literature agrees with me, that dietary changes happened after WWII could be the cause, not the rationing itself. Read the presence of a lot of food but of low quality.

Documentary on food processing and use of added sugar, salt and fats in industrial food processing (in Italian)
http://www.raiplay.it/video/2017/03...ena-9d1dc689-8eca-4d96-a623-07f14411494d.html

Thanks I will take a look!

I cant speak Italian, my boyfriends Italian but I cant really get him to translate anything english?