candi-girl
Well-Known Member
lol fair play 
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Bernstein
- Thread starter Fuggsy
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Dipsticky, you're winding me up;
but just in case
Richard K. Bernstein MD , Fellow of the American College of Nutrition and of the American College of Endocrinology, Diplomate of the American Academy of Wound Management
Specialises in Treatment of Diabetes in his practice in Mamaroneck NY
Author of
Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution.
Developed T1 at the age of 12 in 1946 and still working( do your own sums). Originally qualified as an engineer, but retrained as a doctor in his 40s,initially because of the advent of glucose monitors.
Was probably the first diabetic to own a monitor, becuase originally they were only supplied to doctors and Bernstein's wife was one.( as far as I know, still is) discovered that he could reverse his complications and avoid getting any more, by aggressive treatment of his condition with diet and minimal insulin.
Sn example to any that wish to follow and keep healthy by his method.
but just in case
Richard K. Bernstein MD , Fellow of the American College of Nutrition and of the American College of Endocrinology, Diplomate of the American Academy of Wound Management
Specialises in Treatment of Diabetes in his practice in Mamaroneck NY
Author of
Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution.
Developed T1 at the age of 12 in 1946 and still working( do your own sums). Originally qualified as an engineer, but retrained as a doctor in his 40s,initially because of the advent of glucose monitors.
Was probably the first diabetic to own a monitor, becuase originally they were only supplied to doctors and Bernstein's wife was one.( as far as I know, still is) discovered that he could reverse his complications and avoid getting any more, by aggressive treatment of his condition with diet and minimal insulin.
Sn example to any that wish to follow and keep healthy by his method.
phoenix
Expert
To balance Hanas views rather than set off a huge argument. Heres another point of view from a non low carber.
Dr R Bernstein is a maverick. He has written a lot and not everything he writes is controversial, however his diet is what divides him from the majority of diabetes specialists. he advocates an extremely restrictive diet of 6 grams of carb at breakfast, 12 grams at lunch, and 12 grams at dinner/supper. it is a method that will probably reduce blood glucose levels but whether it is a 'healthy' method in any other way is open to question.
He has a private practice where he sees self selected patients , those who don't like the idea of his methods are unlikely to see him, and will also change doctor if the methods don't work for them. I understand from someone on another forum who tried to see him that his fees are very high and not covered by most insurance, so again another form of selectivity. (compare this with the position of most doctors in a universal health care system)
His evidence is anecdotal since it consists of his own experiences and interpretation.
He writes populist books rather than academic papers.These are advertised all over the internet, just google you can't miss him. You can read extracts of his book and form your own judgement. There is a forum where his followers discuss their woe.(which I thought was their misery at eating such a diet but discovered it meant way of eating) ,you can even become a member of the Bernstein Connection for 40 dollars a year.
Of course he is not the only Dr Bernstein. You might also come across a Dr Gerald Bernstein with a far more moderate model, whose patients are also successful.It is interesting to read of his difficulties in dealing with the majority of diabetics (ie those that don't have good insurance, in the US)
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/11/nyregion/nyregionspecial5/11diabetes.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
And I am so glad that when I developed diabetes I did not discover the writings of Dr R Bernstein,though I have read them since. When diagnosed, (with type 1) I decided that diabetes was not going to stop me indeed it was an incentive to improve my lifestyle. I found out about type 1 diabetics who had climbed mountains, ran marathons, completed triathlons and others who had lived long and useful lives. Very few drastically cut carbs, but lived a 'healthy' lifestyle with a mixture of unrefined foods, exercise and appropriately adjusted insulin . Following these principles has been effective for me. I'm very sure its been far far better psychologically and physiologically than adopting an over-restrictive woe.
Dr R Bernstein is a maverick. He has written a lot and not everything he writes is controversial, however his diet is what divides him from the majority of diabetes specialists. he advocates an extremely restrictive diet of 6 grams of carb at breakfast, 12 grams at lunch, and 12 grams at dinner/supper. it is a method that will probably reduce blood glucose levels but whether it is a 'healthy' method in any other way is open to question.
He has a private practice where he sees self selected patients , those who don't like the idea of his methods are unlikely to see him, and will also change doctor if the methods don't work for them. I understand from someone on another forum who tried to see him that his fees are very high and not covered by most insurance, so again another form of selectivity. (compare this with the position of most doctors in a universal health care system)
His evidence is anecdotal since it consists of his own experiences and interpretation.
He writes populist books rather than academic papers.These are advertised all over the internet, just google you can't miss him. You can read extracts of his book and form your own judgement. There is a forum where his followers discuss their woe.(which I thought was their misery at eating such a diet but discovered it meant way of eating) ,you can even become a member of the Bernstein Connection for 40 dollars a year.
Of course he is not the only Dr Bernstein. You might also come across a Dr Gerald Bernstein with a far more moderate model, whose patients are also successful.It is interesting to read of his difficulties in dealing with the majority of diabetics (ie those that don't have good insurance, in the US)
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/11/nyregion/nyregionspecial5/11diabetes.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
And I am so glad that when I developed diabetes I did not discover the writings of Dr R Bernstein,though I have read them since. When diagnosed, (with type 1) I decided that diabetes was not going to stop me indeed it was an incentive to improve my lifestyle. I found out about type 1 diabetics who had climbed mountains, ran marathons, completed triathlons and others who had lived long and useful lives. Very few drastically cut carbs, but lived a 'healthy' lifestyle with a mixture of unrefined foods, exercise and appropriately adjusted insulin . Following these principles has been effective for me. I'm very sure its been far far better psychologically and physiologically than adopting an over-restrictive woe.
mullaneder
Well-Known Member
great post phoenix 
Phoenix, may i thank you for that post!
It's heartening to read from a fellow diabetic who both takes control of their disease and yet leads a 'normal' life without the deprivations and restrictions that a low-carb approach involves!
And i really enjoyed learning more about the venerable (cough!) Bernstein!
bunty
It's heartening to read from a fellow diabetic who both takes control of their disease and yet leads a 'normal' life without the deprivations and restrictions that a low-carb approach involves!
And i really enjoyed learning more about the venerable (cough!) Bernstein!
bunty
Here are some other mavericks who were ridiculed in their day
• Arrhenius (ion chemistry)
• Alfven, Hans (galaxy-scale plasma dynamics)
• Baird, John L. (television camera)
• Bakker, Robert (fast, warm-blooded dinosaurs)
• Bardeen & Brattain (transistor)
• Bretz J Harlen (ice age geology)
• Chandrasekhar, Subrahmanyan (black holes in 1930)
• Chladni, Ernst (meteorites in 1800)
• Crick & Watson (DNA)
• Doppler (optical Doppler effect)
• Folk, Robert L. (existence and importance of nanobacteria)
• Galvani (bioelectricity)
• Harvey, William (circulation of blood, 1628)
• Krebs (ATP energy, Krebs cycle)
• Galileo (supported the Copernican viewpoint)
• Gauss, Karl F. (nonEuclidean geometery)
• Binning/Roher/Gimzewski (scanning-tunneling microscope)
• Goddard, Robert (rocket-powered space ships)
• Goethe (Land color theory)
• Gold, Thomas (deep non-biological petroleum deposits)
• Gold, Thomas (deep mine bacteria)
• Lister, J (sterilizing)
• T Maiman (Laser)
• Mayer, Julius R. (The Law of Conservation of Energy)
• Marshall, B (ulcers caused by bacteria, helicobacter pylori)
• McClintlock, Barbara (mobile genetic elements, "jumping genes", transposons)
• Newlands, J. (pre-Mendeleev periodic table)
• Nottebohm, F. (neurogenesis: brains can grow neurons)
• Ohm, George S. (Ohm's Law)
• Ovshinsky, Stanford R. (amorphous semiconductor devices)
• Pasteur, Louis (germ theory of disease)
• Prusiner, Stanley (existence of prions, 1982)
• Rous, Peyton (viruses cause cancer)
• Semmelweis, I. (surgeons wash hands, puerperal fever )
• Steen-McIntyre, Virginia (southwest US indians villiage , 300,000BC)
• Tesla, Nikola (Earth electrical resonance, "Schumann" resonance)
• Tesla, Nikola (brushless AC motor)
• J H van't Hoff (molecules are 3D)
• Warren, Warren S (flaw in MRI theory)
• Wegener, Alfred (continental drift)
• Wright, Wilbur & Orville (flying machines)
• Zwicky, Fritz (existence of dark matter, 1933)
• Zweig, George (quark theory)
Or perhaps Barry Marshall, who was so sure the medical establishment was wrong about the cause of stomach ulcers that he swallowed the bacteria he believed were to blame.
• Arrhenius (ion chemistry)
• Alfven, Hans (galaxy-scale plasma dynamics)
• Baird, John L. (television camera)
• Bakker, Robert (fast, warm-blooded dinosaurs)
• Bardeen & Brattain (transistor)
• Bretz J Harlen (ice age geology)
• Chandrasekhar, Subrahmanyan (black holes in 1930)
• Chladni, Ernst (meteorites in 1800)
• Crick & Watson (DNA)
• Doppler (optical Doppler effect)
• Folk, Robert L. (existence and importance of nanobacteria)
• Galvani (bioelectricity)
• Harvey, William (circulation of blood, 1628)
• Krebs (ATP energy, Krebs cycle)
• Galileo (supported the Copernican viewpoint)
• Gauss, Karl F. (nonEuclidean geometery)
• Binning/Roher/Gimzewski (scanning-tunneling microscope)
• Goddard, Robert (rocket-powered space ships)
• Goethe (Land color theory)
• Gold, Thomas (deep non-biological petroleum deposits)
• Gold, Thomas (deep mine bacteria)
• Lister, J (sterilizing)
• T Maiman (Laser)
• Mayer, Julius R. (The Law of Conservation of Energy)
• Marshall, B (ulcers caused by bacteria, helicobacter pylori)
• McClintlock, Barbara (mobile genetic elements, "jumping genes", transposons)
• Newlands, J. (pre-Mendeleev periodic table)
• Nottebohm, F. (neurogenesis: brains can grow neurons)
• Ohm, George S. (Ohm's Law)
• Ovshinsky, Stanford R. (amorphous semiconductor devices)
• Pasteur, Louis (germ theory of disease)
• Prusiner, Stanley (existence of prions, 1982)
• Rous, Peyton (viruses cause cancer)
• Semmelweis, I. (surgeons wash hands, puerperal fever )
• Steen-McIntyre, Virginia (southwest US indians villiage , 300,000BC)
• Tesla, Nikola (Earth electrical resonance, "Schumann" resonance)
• Tesla, Nikola (brushless AC motor)
• J H van't Hoff (molecules are 3D)
• Warren, Warren S (flaw in MRI theory)
• Wegener, Alfred (continental drift)
• Wright, Wilbur & Orville (flying machines)
• Zwicky, Fritz (existence of dark matter, 1933)
• Zweig, George (quark theory)
Or perhaps Barry Marshall, who was so sure the medical establishment was wrong about the cause of stomach ulcers that he swallowed the bacteria he believed were to blame.
phoenix
Expert
And the point of that long list was???
A maverick is by definition one that refuses to abide by the dictates of or resists adherence to a group; ie a dissenter. Dr Bernstein fulfills that criteria. Being a maverick does not ensure that the ideas are valid. There have been many mavericks that have been proved totally wrong, most have been probably been totally forgotten.The internet has its downside in that some peoples opinions receive a far larger audience than may be deserved. It is far more difficult to conduct a proper scientific trial, write it up and get it accepted by a reputable journal, than to write a populist blog or even book.
The views of anothe recent maverick in the medical field, those of Dr Andrew Wakefield , were widely discussed on internet forums and accepted by many mothers with children going unvaccinated as a consequence. This did not make him right.
My posting gives some reasons why I don't believe in following his extreme dietary principles so I won't repeat it.
A maverick is by definition one that refuses to abide by the dictates of or resists adherence to a group; ie a dissenter. Dr Bernstein fulfills that criteria. Being a maverick does not ensure that the ideas are valid. There have been many mavericks that have been proved totally wrong, most have been probably been totally forgotten.The internet has its downside in that some peoples opinions receive a far larger audience than may be deserved. It is far more difficult to conduct a proper scientific trial, write it up and get it accepted by a reputable journal, than to write a populist blog or even book.
The views of anothe recent maverick in the medical field, those of Dr Andrew Wakefield , were widely discussed on internet forums and accepted by many mothers with children going unvaccinated as a consequence. This did not make him right.
My posting gives some reasons why I don't believe in following his extreme dietary principles so I won't repeat it.
crystalyips
Member
If Bernstein's Book is the Holy Grail it is portrayed to be why is it necessary for it to be advertised all over the web. I for one don't appreciate his buy my book, buy my cd attitude. No other diabetes specialists have to self proclaim their lifestyle choice.
I'd rather have a higher hba1c and enjoy life with a few carbs thrown in for good measure.
I'd rather have a higher hba1c and enjoy life with a few carbs thrown in for good measure.
phoenix
Expert
Actually when I read Dr Bernsteins list of foods to avoid (tomatoes and onions anyone?)I don't think that many people on this forum come anywhere near following his dietary principles. Certainly not if the recipes are anything to go by.
The carbs in my own veg and salad portions (and I hope most peoples) would break the limits, moreover he suggests that too many green leafy veg will themselves cause spikes(the chinese food affect he calls it).
The carbs in my own veg and salad portions (and I hope most peoples) would break the limits, moreover he suggests that too many green leafy veg will themselves cause spikes(the chinese food affect he calls it).
That mavericks can't always be just dismissed simply for being 'mavericks'?phoenix said:
That is certainly true, the West is getting fatter eating less fat and more carbohydrate, thank goodness for dissenters. How many scientific breakthroughs have come through the work of dissenters? Some people call that 'progress'.
Very difficult not to in todays fat obsessed climate.
Nor does it prove your ideas are invalid (see list).
Some are exonerated (see list)
In who's opinion?
And so it should be. That doesn't mean there isn't bias in the scientific world though. Not all studies are valid either.
Are all 'mavericks' created equal?
Great! I don't follow Bernstein either
Agree, I don't follow Bernstein, it's aimed at type 1s primarily!crystalyips said:
Hmmm there's a few out there actually! Well those that are diabetics and not just 'experts' regurgitating the usual nonsense. I guess Bernstein is saying something completely out of the 'norm', suppose I might shout about it in his position.
I'd rather have a low Hb1Ac and enjoy life with a few carbs thrown in. Funnily enough carbs don't equate enjoyment of life for me. I do like ryvittas though!
phoenix said:
I don't avoid them, although I don't eat them in bucketloads either,but they do affect my BG, especially stewed tomatoes or slow fried onions! Made a lamb curry tonight with both those things in LOL
phoenix said:
I don't think many people proclaim to, do they?
phoenix said:
I don't think it's intended to be a recipe book, to be honest. There's lots of good ones out there though!
Depends what you choose I guess, I go for very high fibre foods, I tend to find the fibre can be offset against the total carbs.phoenix said:
phoenix said:
Well you learn something new everyday!
TheTartanPimpernel
Well-Known Member
On the other hand there were some brown nosed fanatics:
" I truly believe, if there is any justice in this world Richard Bernstein should be awarded the Nobel prize."
A quote that says something about how to count the brain cells in negative numbers.
" I truly believe, if there is any justice in this world Richard Bernstein should be awarded the Nobel prize."
A quote that says something about how to count the brain cells in negative numbers.
TheTartanPimpernel said:
Ooooh that's a bit harsh. I don't understand why you resort to the term 'brown nosed fanatics' surely if someone has found something that has, in their mind, completely changed their life, they are entitled to be enthusiastic! Aren't they?
Surely it's just another tool in the box, it's up to you to choose the right tool for you and let others choose theirs. Bernstein is a tool. Atkins is a tool. Low GI is a tool. Low fat high fibre is a tool. Just do what suits and let's not get hung up eh?
Well that's my two penneth anyway LOL
Best wishes!
phoenix
Expert
I agree with Tartan Pimpernal,
I would like to think (but will probably be disapointed) that we have said a final goodbye to the perpetrator of those statements. He can continue without opposition on your (doczone) new forum. :wink:
I think Dr Bernstein has had far more discussion in this section than he deserves, the whole issue makes for unnecessarily polarised opinion which serves no useful purpose .
I would like to think (but will probably be disapointed) that we have said a final goodbye to the perpetrator of those statements. He can continue without opposition on your (doczone) new forum. :wink:
I think Dr Bernstein has had far more discussion in this section than he deserves, the whole issue makes for unnecessarily polarised opinion which serves no useful purpose .
Can I ask that people remember this before posting here:
Administrator wrote:
If you low-carb and wish to debate/discuss low-carbing issues, stick to the low-carb diabetes diet forum. However contrary to your opinion some of the threads may be, please keep this area of the forum free for non low-carbers. Consistent misuse of this forum is a banning offence.
Regards,
Admin
Administrator wrote:
If you low-carb and wish to debate/discuss low-carbing issues, stick to the low-carb diabetes diet forum. However contrary to your opinion some of the threads may be, please keep this area of the forum free for non low-carbers. Consistent misuse of this forum is a banning offence.
Regards,
Admin
mullaneder
Well-Known Member
hear hear theres a few things that i dont agree with in the low carb forum but i wouldnt dream of posting there as it would only lead to arguements
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