1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2020 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Changed to a plant based diet

Discussion in 'Vegetarian Diet Forum' started by bobduff, Feb 22, 2020.

Tags:
  1. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

    Messages:
    7,839
    Likes Received:
    4,783
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I have seen many times the claim that many type twos reversed their condition eating a plant based diet - but so far I have never found anyone who told me they only had to eat that way to be normal. There was always something else such as medication, drastic weightloss and perpetual low calorie, daily exercise - but that was not regarded as the reason for the success.
    For some people it was still within the first year from diagnosis.
    Having just found that overdosing on supersweet small tomatoes can raise my BG significantly I really can't see any way that I could manage on a vegetarian diet in the long term - my calorie intake would need to be so low that I'd be unable to sustain a normal lifestyle.
     
  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    16,418
    Likes Received:
    11,326
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Please be aware that @bobduff is T1 .

    T2's being treated with low fat vegan diets didn't have such great results when looked at in an actual trial of the method by Dr Neal Barnard one of the main vegan docs.
    His results are here
    Screenshot 2020-02-20 at 19.16.22.png

    Not even down to pre-diabteic levels.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. coby

    coby Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Thank you for that bulkbiker ... I shall sit and read that thoroughly
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,655
    Likes Received:
    8,509
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I would like to see the proof of Type 2 reversal, I.e. numbers (HbA1c, fasting glucose and post prandial), so far the version of protocol advocated in this thread, in a randomised clincal control trial claimed the very same thing of reversal, and in my opinion was nowhere near even my results.

    It is very important not to conflate a reduction of say initial HbA1c of 8.5 to 7.5 on plants alone to for example mine of 14 plus to mid 5's (and yes like many I tried mostly plants early on with higher glucose results).

    The reason for picking up this point is that for Type 2's who are looking for "true" reversal (non- diabetic numbers), "we" need to see proof; I would not accept Dr Neil Barnard's reveral numbers and none of the other plant based "curists" publish results, so until shown this is a myth. Cyrus of Mastering Diabetes was respectfully taken apart by Paul Saladino. It was clear Cyrus understood mechanisms, and came across as very intellegent, but it is not a reversal to have post prandial number of 160 mg / dl plus, cover with insulin and compare this to some of "our" results / expectations. Can anyone who states reversal on any protocol show numbers please (especially after 3 or 4 years).
     
  5. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,655
    Likes Received:
    8,509
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Similar thoughts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    16,418
    Likes Received:
    11,326
    Trophy Points:
    298
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,551
    Likes Received:
    3,419
    Trophy Points:
    198
    That was an excellent podcast. Anyone who wants to debate Paul and win had better do some reading first. The guy is an encyclopaedia of nutrition science. I notice James Wilks still hasn't risen to the challenge of a one-on-one. Most likely realises that the bullying tactics he used to close down Chris Kresser and pull the wool over Rogan's eyes won't cut the mustard with Saladino :shifty:
     
  8. JTL

    JTL Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,102
    Likes Received:
    7,834
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I'm a T2 who isn't far off reversed but I fall off the wagon now and then and it reminds me it's still there.
    Typical story of getting diagnosed knowing nothing about it and have to listen to what those at the surgery are telling me ... they're the experts right?
    Wrong.
    I go on the Metformin and follow the eatwell plate as best as possible and have Weetabix for breakfast with a small amount of sugar on as directed and generally felt unwell and tired everytime I ate.
    Nothing improving numbers not coming down.
    Have a Google.
    I discover this place and after a couple of weeks leave because it seems to be inhabited by fruit cakes who say eating fat is a good way of losing weight and healthy in so many other ways.
    Eat fat to lose weight and lower so called bad cholesterol .... nutters goodbye.
    A couple of months go by and I hear things here and there about low carb high fat .... I don't even know what a carb is!
    My health isn't getting any better and I hear that T2's at the surgery and more or less everywhere else get fatter and sicker and take ever more medication.
    Come back here can't remember my username so join up again.

    I read I talk and realise the people eating fat are actually intelligent and sincere so .... high fat low carb it is what do I have to lose/
    I have never weighed or measured anything beyond eating to my meter.
    The weight came off the blood pressure came down the so called bad cholesterol drops the good rises and I'm feeling full of energy!
    My glucose levels become very stable and acceptable and I have never looked back.
    There are T2's I come across ... fatter sicker ever more medication.
    This site improved my health .... may quite possibly have saved my life.
    My surgery were mortified when I told them I was doing this my way not there's and higher fat they found alarming.
    Six months went by and they were fascinated .... best T2 on their books!
    I have no desire to stop eating dead flesh though.
     
    • Winner Winner x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  9. EddieA12

    EddieA12 · Member

    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Hi. I did the same about 9 months ago and found it easy too. I’m also a Type 1, so there were no issues with making the change. I have friends that have made the change and also my mother (none of which are diabetic), they have all lost body fat and report having more energy. One of them (who I didn’t see for a few months after he started) had really clear vibrant skin (just another plus in my books!).
    I know there are a lot of people against this way of eating, but for my friends, family and I, it’s great!
    If you are interested in seeing some documentaries that cover it I would suggested ‘Forks over knives’ and ‘Game changers’. Both on Netflix. I know the BBC put something out a few weeks/months ago, but I can’t remember what it was called.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. RachelN76

    RachelN76 Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Hi @bobduff
    I’ve been veggie for 30+ years, and I really feel the need to go vegan for moral reasons.
    How did you find cutting out dairy and eggs?

    Milk I’m fine with - the soya alternatives are great. But I really struggle to find decent cheese substitutes (and I love my cheese), and I can’t get to grips with baking without eggs (and I love to bake - even if I don’t eat it)

    I’ve come back to this forum for a bit of advice after taking a while off, and I know I’m going to get burned for this, but it is a bit off putting that the answer to pretty much anything anyone posts is “eat all the meat! Go keto. LCHF”. It’s just not an option for some people, and it’s not always helpful to jump on every thread with that. I’ve got my flameproof panties on, I’m ready!
     
  11. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    16,418
    Likes Received:
    11,326
    Trophy Points:
    298
    It is an option for everyone but it depends if your moral reasons outweigh your health reasons.

    However if you want to be a keto vegan then check out Carrie Diulus who is a T1 but follows a ketogenic vegan diet ( I have no idea how!) but she may give you some pointers.

    Here is a podcast by my mate Daisy who features her.
    https://ketowomanpodcast.com/carrie-diulus/

    Edited by moderator to remove inappropriate content
     
    #31 bulkbiker, Jun 2, 2020 at 7:15 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2020
  12. RachelN76

    RachelN76 Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Thank you @bulkbiker - I’ll have a look at that. My genes, and my complete inability to show any kind of self control around food has made me diabetic.

    and I was thinking about this last night, and I asked myself if going carnivore meant that I would get better diabetic control and live 10 years longer, could I do it. And no, I don’t think I could. Because that would mean I’d have to value ten years of my life as being more valuable than the lives of hundreds (maybe?) of animals. And I just don’t think I’m all that worthy!


    Edited by moderator to remove derailing content
     
    • Hug Hug x 1
    #32 RachelN76, Jun 2, 2020 at 7:21 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2020
  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    16,418
    Likes Received:
    11,326
    Trophy Points:
    298
    As most of us here have realised it isn't eating meat that causes diabetes but the carbohydrates that usually accompany it.
    By avoiding the carbs or severely restricting them our T2 goes into remission.
    That's quite enough proof for me whereas even Dr Neal Barnard in his famous vegan study didn't get anywhere near such good results .
    Screenshot 2020-02-20 at 19.16.22.png


    Edited by moderator
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #33 bulkbiker, Jun 2, 2020 at 7:25 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2020
  14. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    16,418
    Likes Received:
    11,326
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Unfortunately growing veg and grains kills just as many if not more animals than eating them. They may be smaller and less "cute" but they get blasted with insecticide and chewed up in harvesting machines just the same.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. ziggy_w

    ziggy_w Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,594
    Likes Received:
    7,433
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Hi @RachelN76,

    I absolutely agree with you -- we should all be respectful of other's dietary choices.

    If going vegan/vegetarian works for you, makes you feel happy and you enjoy this way of eating, the more power to you. (Although as @bulkbiker mentions veganism/vegetarianism and low-carb don't necessarily need to be mutually exclusive).
     
    #35 ziggy_w, Jun 2, 2020 at 7:36 PM
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  16. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,449
    Likes Received:
    16,903
    Trophy Points:
    198
    A number of posts have been edited to remove provocative, bickering and derailing content. Any further such posts will be deleted.
     
  17. Marie 2

    Marie 2 LADA · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,527
    Likes Received:
    1,089
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Hi. I am a type 1 long time vegan.

    I have an A1c of 32.
    @Walking Girl is a vegetarian and a type 2.

    Follow Your Heart and Daiya cheese alternatives are great.
    A new Just Egg substitute is really good and Follow Your Heart makes an egg substitute.

    A lot of times you can just bake without the eggs, but Ener-G makes a Egg Replacer powder to use for baking.

    My favorite site is It doesn't Taste like Chicken. The site is free and has all sorts of a variety recipes.

    I just started a thread with vegan and vegetarian recipe sites and it also has a list of vegan vegetarian low carb recipe sites.
     
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook