1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2019 »
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Cholesterol and Statins

Discussion in 'Other Health Conditions and Diabetes' started by bulkbiker, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,820
    Likes Received:
    10,258
    Trophy Points:
    298
    No because there are none.. in fact there never will be until people are taken at birth fed a specific diet for a lifetime then die and get autopsied.. however claiming that an ancestral food that mankind has eaten for millennia is "unhealthy" seems a bit crazy to me. Also of course it is not possible to eat "saturated fat" it doesn't exist in solitude in any food but is always accompanied by mono and poly unsaturated in differing ratios..

    Edit to ad I think the PURE study showed a lack of any association between sat fat and ACM so negative evidence (which is probably stronger than any other) there was also a consideration that it may be slightly protective.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    #181 bulkbiker, Jun 16, 2019 at 7:54 PM
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  2. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,543
    Likes Received:
    6,956
    Trophy Points:
    278
    No studies but there is plenty of history. Sami, Masai, Inuit etc.
     
  3. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,487
    Likes Received:
    2,753
    Trophy Points:
    178
    There was this one three million year study that showed humans can thrive on natural animal fats and proteins. Ended in 1977.

    :shifty:
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,543
    Likes Received:
    6,956
    Trophy Points:
    278
    Would not like to trawl the data on that one!
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  5. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,487
    Likes Received:
    2,753
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Just get Walter Willet’s boys to run the meta analysis software looking for patterns within predetermined criteria. Normally does the trick :pompous:
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  6. jjraak

    jjraak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,973
    Likes Received:
    4,857
    Trophy Points:
    178
    interesting point, @KK123 .
    i wondered the same.

    i also input my scores after following the LCHF diet many advocate on here..not keto mind.
    and from my scores at DX in august 2018 to Jan 2019 just gone when i went down to almost normal levels HBA1c of 42
    all my markers on this AND the previous used, hughs calculator had improved dramatically.

    While i can see the concerns as to what we shouldn't eat., the main thread does seem to be lots of what is advocated here.
    real foods, less fruit, less sugars, etc.

    i suppose in any given situation a case COULD be made that any item we eat, can cause a heart attack, but in reality all any of us can do is take note, listen and with due diligence pick our own path way.

    Can't think of a more depressing way of living then being afraid to eat anything, because it might be bad, in some way or other.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,543
    Likes Received:
    6,956
    Trophy Points:
    278
    Not sure why the conversation has turned to SAFAs when we know that dietary cholesterol has very little impact on serum cholesterol. Obviously this statement comes with the understanding that plant sterols in cholesterol lowering margarines are an exception.
     
  8. Sapien

    Sapien Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Unfortunately for most of those years the humans were eating wild and not domesticated animals and certainly not factory farmed animals fattened up on corn.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,543
    Likes Received:
    6,956
    Trophy Points:
    278
    They were not eating hyperpalatable, highly refined carbs every two hours either. And that is apart from from 30 years of trans fats and the man made polys of modern times. I know which I'd choose to eat between modern cattle and the other things.
     
  10. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,820
    Likes Received:
    10,258
    Trophy Points:
    298
    "Unfortunately"?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,820
    Likes Received:
    10,258
    Trophy Points:
    298
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Sapien

    Sapien Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Fortunately for them, unfortunately for us that most meat is now factory farmed. Unfortunately we can’t assume that if animal fat was healthy hundreds or thousands of years ago that still applies today. Animals are what they eat.

    Today many animals are raised on corn and soy feed. Grass fed can still be fattened for market on corn. Lots of omega 6 fat relative to omega 3 in most meat these days- not too different from vegetable oils.

    Fraud is not uncommon in marketing meat, fish, olive oil, etc. You don’t always know what you are really buying.

    I think meat is way better than vegetable oil and grains, but I am not convinced that meat in large quantity is the healthiest low carb alternative. (aka carnivore).
     
  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,820
    Likes Received:
    10,258
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Where do you live? Here in the UK most animals are out in the fields eating grass.. I doubt very much that the farm that most of my meat comes from would spend money on feed when grass is free...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Sapien

    Sapien Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    “Unfortunately” in the US, but factory farms and deception aren’t unique to the US.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/environ...00-livestock-mega-farms-investigation-reveals

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-an...abelled-in-one-in-five-samples-worldwide/amp/

    https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/jan/04/olive-oil-real-thing
     
  15. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,543
    Likes Received:
    6,956
    Trophy Points:
    278
    No factory farms in my county.
    I despise all seafood.
    Stopped using olive oil when I rediscovered butter and lard.
    I'm alright, Jack (as long as I buy local meat).
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  16. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,610
    Likes Received:
    1,099
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Hi Jim, that's the point, none of us get them unless we are willing to pay for them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

    Messages:
    24,539
    Likes Received:
    30,268
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Is the hs-CRP test the same as a CRP ?

    I was given a CRP as part of my routine health checks back in 2012, well before my T2 diagnosis. Not had one since.
     
  18. Sapien

    Sapien Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    The standard CRP measured from 10 to 1000 mg/L and is used to detect inflammation. (a bit cheaper than hs-CRP) Those are measurement used in the US.

    The hs-CRP (high sensitivity) measures from 0.2 to 10 mg/L and is used to evaluate CV risk.

    Low risk is less than 1.0 mg/L. Average risk 1.0 to 3.0 and high risk above 3.0.

    I have had the test three times. Once it came back 0.2. A different doc ordered it later and it came back 32.5! The doc said “not possible” and re-ordered the test two days later which came back <0.2. (Either I am in really good shape or really bad shape).

    hs-CRP was covered by insurance, whereas the CAC (calcium score) was not covered. (Luckily my calcium score was zero.)
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

    Messages:
    24,539
    Likes Received:
    30,268
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Thank you. You seem to be in very good shape!! Well done. :)

    My records show the standard range was 0 to 10mg/l and just said C- reactive protein. My score was 5 at that time, but I have arthritis so that may explain things. I may ask for the other one.
     
  20. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,543
    Likes Received:
    6,956
    Trophy Points:
    278
    • Informative Informative x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook