Could rinse aid residue be harmful and part of the cause of mellitus?

[LokiTheFiddler]

According to a study published in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, professional dishwashers that use rinse aids could potentially harm the protective layer of the gut. The study employed in vitro methodologies and studied the effects of the dishwashing components, including rinse aids, on cultured cells, organoids, and a gut-on-a-chip model. Results showed that professional rinse aid, at a dilution of 1:20000, was found to be cytotoxic and responsible for compromising the epithelial barrier integrity through disruption of cellular tight junctions. This could lead to increased cytotoxicity of human intestinal epithelial cells, as supported by the data from the study.

Alcohol ethoxylate is a "non ionic surfactant" which is the main ingredient in rinse aid. It helps water slide off the dishes, glasses etc.
So imagine what it does to the intestinal muscosa layer?

Perhaps it isn't so much the western diet causing mellitus, but the chemicals in our life?

??
Do you have a dish washer?
Do you use rinse aid?
Have you had a dish washer before or after being diagnosed with melittus?

 

[zand]

I've been T2 for 12 years. I've never lived in a home with a dishwasher. I suspect that a variety of chemicals including those in food and drink have a negative effect on the gut.

 

[Zhnyaka]

Is the gut somehow connected with diabetes? I would assume that it can cause other diseases, but it is unlikely diabetes

 

[jjraak]

I've been T2 for 12 years. I've never lived in a home with a dishwasher. I suspect that a variety of chemicals including those in food and drink have a negative effect on the gut.

Same here, but for closer to 5 years .

 

[jjraak]

Perhaps it isn't so much the western diet causing mellitus, but the chemicals in our life?

Interesting point, I suppose ..mmhh.

Given that a certain chemical load 'could' set in play the conditions that began our bodies decline in processing carbohydrates.

In challenging it, I could only say that the 'remedy' aka LCHF for me, reversed the 'scoring' method without any other modifications to my chemical 'input'
(HBA1c)

So my food input measurably improved my diabetes 'level'

So much so, that at some point (40 HBA1c) I think technically IF I had been assessed for DX at THAT point, I wouldn't have been classed as T2D.

And given nothing else had changed, that I know of ,

Perhaps the food WAS the issue not chemicals ?

Not disputing chemicals have their place in being guilty for a whole tsunami of impairments & conditions .

Just that in T2D, imho, it's not the main culprit.

But food, for me was most definitely the main offender.

 

[Deleted member 527103]

I have been using a dishwasher for over 20 years with rinse aid.
My gut is fine
I find my dishwashers have always rinsed the load very well so expect no more of a load of chemicals from a dishwasher than from using washing up liquid with manual washing which is not rinsed as thoroughly.

 

[catinahat]

It's also used in washing up liquid, laundry liquid and household surface cleaning spray. I would imagine it's a chemical that everyone comes into contact with at some point.
The little beasties in our gut seem to be quite important for our general health. I can imagine that they are not going to be happy with us inadvertently digesting Alcohol ethoxylate.
I suspect there are many reasons why people get diabetes, and unhappy gut bacteria could well play its part for some.
Just what we can do about it, I have no idea, modern life seems to surround us with chemicals we'd rather avoid. Even though they do have some benefits, I quite enjoy wearing clean clothes and eating off clean plates

 

[JohnEGreen]

Is the gut somehow connected with diabetes? I would assume that it can cause other diseases, but it is unlikely diabetes

There is some evidences to suggest that the gut is linked to Diabetes yes but it is still a little uncertain.

"Conclusion
Despite multiple studies supporting the importance of gut microbiota in pathophysiology of T2D, the field is in early stage. Currently, we have reached a point in our understanding that some microbial taxa and related molecular mechanisms may be involved in glucose metabolism related to T2D. However, the heterogeneity of T2D and redundancy of gut microbiota do not promise simple interpretations (e.g. low diversity) and easy solutions (such as fecal transplant from non-diabetic/non-obese donor). In contrast, we should work towards precision/personalized medicine selecting anti-diabetics and probiotics for a given patient based on the combination of her/his mammalian and microbial genomes."

Role of gut microbiota in type 2 diabetes pathophysiology

A substantial body of literature has provided evidence for the role of gut microbiota in metabolic diseases including type 2 diabetes. However, reports vary regarding the association of particular taxonomic groups with disease. In this systematic review, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[KennyA]

According to a study published in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, professional dishwashers that use rinse aids could potentially harm the protective layer of the gut. The study employed in vitro methodologies and studied the effects of the dishwashing components, including rinse aids, on cultured cells, organoids, and a gut-on-a-chip model. Results showed that professional rinse aid, at a dilution of 1:20000, was found to be cytotoxic and responsible for compromising the epithelial barrier integrity through disruption of cellular tight junctions. This could lead to increased cytotoxicity of human intestinal epithelial cells, as supported by the data from the study.

Alcohol ethoxylate is a "non ionic surfactant" which is the main ingredient in rinse aid. It helps water slide off the dishes, glasses etc.
So imagine what it does to the intestinal muscosa layer?

Perhaps it isn't so much the western diet causing mellitus, but the chemicals in our life?

??
Do you have a dish washer?
Do you use rinse aid?
Have you had a dish washer before or after being diagnosed with melittus?

Do you have a link to the actual study, please?

 

[Rokaab]

??
Do you have a dish washer?
Do you use rinse aid?
Have you had a dish washer before or after being diagnosed with melittus?

Nope
I dont think home dishwashers were even a thing when I was diagnosed (1977)

But also note there is not just one type of diabetes anyways, mine was an auto-immune system response to something though I will likely never ever know what - it might have been a response to something external or could have just been my immune system being an idiot - I'm inclined to believe its just an idiot as I now have 3 immune system diseases .....

 

[Oldvatr]

experiments with faecal transplants in vitro have not managed to either cure or trigger T2D as a result of the transfer. There is some evidence that gut flora do affect the metabolic pathway in terms of rate of transfer and rate of digestion, but has little effect that can be measured in blood sugar homeostasis. If the chemical has the effect of making the gut more slippery then this may be a cure for constipation.

I think if this was an agent for harm. then it would manifest in other digestive issues first and be more obvious. Maybe that woman that caused such a stir on Im a Celebrity regarding peoples business knows something? They were certainly fascinated by such matters in the middle ages, and doctors used this as a means of diagnosis of many conditions. Maybe we are regressing back to the middle ages?

Groom of the Stool - The worst job in history?

Surely one of the most repulsive jobs in history, the 'Groom of the King's Close Stool' was a role created during the reign of Henry VIII to monitor and assist in the king's bowel motions.

www.historic-uk.com

The post was abolished by King Edward VII.

 

[Oldvatr]

experiments with faecal transplants in vitro have not managed to either cure or trigger T2D as a result of the transfer. There is some evidence that gut flora do affect the metabolic pathway in terms of rate of transfer and rate of digestion, but has little effect that can be measured in blood sugar homeostasis. If the chemical has the effect of making the gut more slippery then this may be a cure for constipation.

I think if this was an agent for harm. then it would manifest in other digestive issues first and be more obvious. Maybe that woman that caused such a stir on Im a Celebrity regarding peoples business knows something? They were certainly fascinated by such matters in the middle ages, and doctors used this as a means of diagnosis of many conditions. Maybe we are regressing back to the middle ages?

Groom of the Stool - The worst job in history?

Surely one of the most repulsive jobs in history, the 'Groom of the King's Close Stool' was a role created during the reign of Henry VIII to monitor and assist in the king's bowel motions.

www.historic-uk.com

The post was abolished by King Edward VII.

The last observation is that alcohol salts do not mix well with hydrochloric acid, so will not survive the transit throught the duodenum. Same thing for so called probiotics that also do not get into the gut alive.

 

[Lamont D]

From what I've read, it is the effect of inflammation in the majority of T2s!
Though that may not be the whole picture.
Many theories abound. But an overall effect of how the messages between brain, organs, gut would determine how much hormones are produced and used.



What have you got against dish washers?

 

[Rachox]

My dishwasher is called Mr Rachox and doesn’t require rinse aid!

 

[jjraak]

My dishwasher is called Mr Rachox and doesn’t require rinse aid!

Just plenty of TLC

 

[Oldvatr]

Rinse Aid was invented in 1984 but machines were not adapted to use it until much later. The rise in T2D began in the 70's.

 

[LokiTheFiddler]

Interesting point, I suppose ..mmhh.

Given that a certain chemical load 'could' set in play the conditions that began our bodies decline in processing carbohydrates.

In challenging it, I could only say that the 'remedy' aka LCHF for me, reversed the 'scoring' method without any other modifications to my chemical 'input'
(HBA1c)

So my food input measurably improved my diabetes 'level'

So much so, that at some point (40 HBA1c) I think technically IF I had been assessed for DX at THAT point, I wouldn't have been classed as T2D.

And given nothing else had changed, that I know of ,

Perhaps the food WAS the issue not chemicals ?

Not disputing chemicals have their place in being guilty for a whole tsunami of impairments & conditions .

Just that in T2D, imho, it's not the main culprit.

But food, for me was most definitely the main offender.

Food doesn't make healthy people diabetic.
A normal working gut and metabolic system is perfectly able to cope with all sorts of food.
Except arsenic and other toxic fodder.

D2 is the body's regulator (carb.urettor) gone awry.

Most of the recent studies do show that you can tell a diabetic person from their gut flora.

If you stop the LC diet do you think you will stay DX?
Maybe you are just in D2 relapse as long as you don't eat carbs.
To change your
One of the most recent Dec 2022 research studies, shows that diabetic people actually have an abundance of a butyrate producing bacteria.
Which should help protect the gut?
Alas its a species that doesn't use fiber but eats vitamins especially B and D to produce the butyrate.

So the artificial adding of vitamins to white bread, cereals and a lot of foods may turn out to be a long lasting detrimental effect on the western diet's gut biome.

I don't think western food producers help.

Another daft thing they have done is to replace normal sugar in everything with High Fructose Corn Syrup just to make more money.
HFCS should really be banned or taxed so much old fashioned normal sugar is cheaper and used again.

Carbs don't create D2, people's gut biome does.
By creating internal inflammation, and allowing LPS and bacteria to run amok.
You are what your intestinal bacteria eat ...
... and expel.

 

[jjraak]

that use rinse aids could potentially harm the protective layer of the gut

I think I was referencing your point here .


I think my point was perhaps that the 'chemical' element MIGHT be IN the food, as amending THAT, reversed the process, somewhat

As Rinse Aid wasn't any part of my household as I never had a dishwasher .

Though I admit I have no problem accepting it may have been life in general or chemicals/additives that could & probably did have something to do with turning off my ability to process carbs as well as I once did .

Though it could easily be my DNA means it was time/amount limited or I was just unlucky and wore out that ability or a genetic effect that made me prone to it...who knows ?

The remedy however seems to have been effective for me & many others.

Has it cured me..?
An interesting topic of conversations here ..mmhh

My thoughts, No.

Much like stumbling around in the dark, the solution is to provide some light

The light hasn't improved my night vision, it's just stops me hurting myself unnecessarily in the dark.


Much of interest in your post, so thank you

And liked the Carb-urettor idea ..

 

[Outlier]

The light hasn't improved my night vision, it's just stops me hurting myself unnecessarily in the dark.

I do like that.

 

[Oldvatr]

Food doesn't make healthy people diabetic.
A normal working gut and metabolic system is perfectly able to cope with all sorts of food.
Except arsenic and other toxic fodder.

D2 is the body's regulator (carb.urettor) gone awry.

Most of the recent studies do show that you can tell a diabetic person from their gut flora.

If you stop the LC diet do you think you will stay DX?
Maybe you are just in D2 relapse as long as you don't eat carbs.
To change your
One of the most recent Dec 2022 research studies, shows that diabetic people actually have an abundance of a butyrate producing bacteria.
Which should help protect the gut?
Alas its a species that doesn't use fiber but eats vitamins especially B and D to produce the butyrate.

So the artificial adding of vitamins to white bread, cereals and a lot of foods may turn out to be a long lasting detrimental effect on the western diet's gut biome.

I don't think western food producers help.

Another daft thing they have done is to replace normal sugar in everything with High Fructose Corn Syrup just to make more money.
HFCS should really be banned or taxed so much old fashioned normal sugar is cheaper and used again.

Carbs don't create D2, people's gut biome does.
By creating internal inflammation, and allowing LPS and bacteria to run amok.
You are what your intestinal bacteria eat ...
... and expel.

There are benfits from butyrates in the gut

What is Butyrate and What Can It Do?

Butyrate is a naturally occurring fatty acid in your body that may have the power to improve gut health and prevent disease. But research is still ongoing.

health.clevelandclinic.org

And it occurs naturally in foods, and is a byproduct of fermentation too, which also occurs in the lower bowel to feed the gut biome flora and fauna.

Butyrate: What Is It, Postbiotic Benefits, Butyrate Foods, and More

Butyrate is critical for many bodily functions including gut lining repair, inflammation response, and more. Learn more about butyrate and its sources here!

bodybio.co.uk

It seems to be a defence mechanism of the body, and is actually used to actively treat diabetes

Butyrate modulates diabetes-linked gut dysbiosis: epigenetic and mechanistic modifications

Diabetic dysbiosis has been described as a novel key player in diabetes and diabetic complications. However, the cellular/molecular alterations associated with dysbiosis remain poorly characterized. For that, control, non-obese type 2 diabetic MKR mice and MKR mice treated with butyrate were...

jme.bioscientifica.com

Note: this is a mouse driven study

There are probiotics used to increase butyrate in the gut.

Here is a learned treatise on the subject that may be of interest to party poopers.

Gut Microbiota and Complications of Type-2 Diabetes

The gut microbiota has been linked to the emergence of obesity, metabolic syndrome and the onset of type 2 diabetes through decreased glucose tolerance and insulin resistance. Uncontrolled diabetes can lead to serious health consequences such as impaired ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It seems that butyrate reduces leaky gut syndrome which is a problem mainly of old age. It is after all a primative but natural plastic.

Butyrate - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com