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Covid/Coronavirus and diabetes - the numbers

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Lupf, May 15, 2020.

  1. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    And of course have built up precisely zero immunity.. if it ever gets a hold there (as it has been endemic here in the UK since late 2019) then they will be very seriously impacted indeed. See if Jacinda is quite so smug then..
     
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  2. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Also compounded by the fact that during their fairly extreme lockdown measures, other lurgies will not have been doing the rounds and bolstering immunity, so they can probably expect increased influenza illness next season.
     
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  3. hankjam

    hankjam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Confused.com
    I thought that things weren't so bad as suggested coz ~80% of us were already a bit immune due to other variants of the virus and that those that were dying, were just getting picked off because previous deaths were lower than could be normally expected and would be expected to peg it in the coming flu season.
     
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  4. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    That's right but NZ has likely limited their exposure to everything.
     
  5. hankjam

    hankjam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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  7. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It might be fairer to compare cities like Auckland (1210 people per sq m), Christchurch (1275 per sq m), Wellington (1888 per sq m) to cities like Solihull (1205 per sq m), Sunderland (2,000 per sq m) and Leeds (1430 per sq m).
     
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  8. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Wikipedia puts it at 1200 miles to Australia, still a considerable distance by our standards, but air travel, which NZ closed before lockdown, makes the distance between countries more of a level playing field.
     
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  9. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, it seems my figure of 2,500 miles is from the middle of NZ to the middle of Australia. I still think it is easier to isolate a relatively remote island.
     
  10. hankjam

    hankjam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    How so? Surely we all need the same basic resources, which need a minimum of interaction, irrespective of where you are.

    Unless I've misunderstood you, which would be my fault.
     
  11. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I meant it would be easier to restrict travel in and out of the country if visitors have to fly in from some distance, rather than arrive on ferries, by rail or road, or even walk in the case of Northern Ireland.
     
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  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I think NZ by the very nature of its location is a lot more self sufficient than the UK.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_food_self-sufficiency_rate
    For food they look reasonable and I guess that for cars etc people will have to wait.
    Their tourism and burgeoning movie industry will of course be decimated by their government's actions.
     
  13. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Any island is easier to isolate because it's easier to close borders. Where did we go wrong. A PM who went visiting hospitals and boasting of shaking hands with covid patients. Not that there's evidence of him getting it from hospital, but that sort of attitude ignoring the danger of the pandemic is partially to blame for our late reactions.

    They're going through tough times economically. New Zealand imports mainly vehicles (13 percent), nuclear reactors, boilers, machinery and mechanical appliances (13 percent), fuels (10 percent), electrical machinery and equipment (8 percent), plastics (4 percent) and aircraft, spacecraft (4 percent). New Zealand also imports processed and unprocessed food products like meat and dairy products, grains and seeds, seafood, eggs, chickens, fresh fruit and veg, poultry and wine and beverages. Quite a lot really.
     
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  14. hankjam

    hankjam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Quite a lot like the UK then.
     
  15. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    In that they rely on a lot of imported stuff, especially now that Skype seems to have removed my user id and all my contacts and then set me up with another user id.
     
  16. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if this is the right Covid forum (if not please move). One of my favourite educators Ivor Cummins, gets fired up in response to being called out (anonymously). What is great about this response is that it is a phenomenal summary of the Covid pandemic with off the self facts. All so often the facts on many matters doesn't register or matter. I know there are facts and someone else's facts, but sometimes a fact like the sun rises everyday cannot be argued with (some somehow find a way):

     
  17. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It would be interesting to see a critique of this podcast from health authorities in UK and Europe who are advocating the lockdowns, masks etc. that Ivor thinks are ineffective and unnecessary. Can it really be true that one Irish industrial chemist is correct and the WHO, The European centre for Disease Prevention and Control, The Robert Koch Institute, The Institut Pasteur, The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and many more have all got it wrong?
     
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  18. hankjam

    hankjam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I'll admit I didn't watch it through to the end. I find the repeated use of "that's a fact" without much support difficult to take. It just sounds a little smug and self congratulatory.
    It could me but not really a fan of YouTube presentations, prefer written docs with references supplied.
     
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  19. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Some good points that I am not qualified to answer, but will try and give an opinion on. Your questions are the sort that in a studio with 30 seconds to answer would not be possible to reply to, in the same way that a higher cholesterol is not necessarily heart disease.

    Before posting I checked Euromomo, sliced and diced the numbers using the filters and I also reviewed Worldometer. Baring a massive fraud, the numbers follow the pattern of the hump, quieter time and then a resurgence in the winter season. I am trying to be careful with my language as over a million have died, which is entirely the fault of the disease.

    Ivor is not alone: (https://www.rt.com/op-ed/502857-covid-scientists-against-lockdown/)
    "More than 7,000 top scientists and doctors have signed a declaration calling for politicians to reconsider their entire approach to Covid, and to adopt a herd immunity strategy. Why didn’t this happen seven months ago?" I think it would be fair to say they are not conspiracists or crack pots, just a differing alternative.

    Some of the above if not the majority, have the same qualifications and experience as those who make the decisions, in the big organisations. I often appeal to authority, but the playbook of the big names falls on deaf ears with me, such as the ADA, PHE, NICE, BHF, etc – they would all happily have left me to have gone on insulin, eaten heart healthy whole grains, you know the rest.

    I recall listening to an Australian dietitian or nutritutionalist within the last 6 months (can't remember what her qualification was), anyway she sent a question to 100 members of her profession and over 90% said they would not try a low carb diet for those they look after (in the context of type 2 diabetes). The point I am making is that I tend to back where the rubber hits the road rather than the establishment view – is this not the raison d'etre of this website.

    If your gonna do a lock down you have to do it in the Singapore style manner with military precision and have a test and trace system that off the shelf works.

    If you going to go for herd immunity then the Swedish model with tweaks, I feel is attractive. The tweaks being from the beginning protecting the most vulnerable (properly) and having a world class system of support. Trying to understand what the differences are between those who do better and the not so well and mitigating this. So diet (not necessarily lc / keto), but the foods and drinks consumed during lockdown would not have helped the immune system - give people a chance to make informed decisions with no food politics) I believe this method causes the least harm to people and the economy. The points about long Covid are valid, but I believe of a similar level to the experience I used to have when I used to get colds / man flu that hung around for weeks and months sometimes - I reckon most people have experienced that type of cold (not comparing colds to Covid, just the long term symptons I have experienced pre 5 years ago).

    Obviously speaking with a lot of hindsight, but the “experts” have seen the gompertz curve many times, so everything Ivor said around April seems sound.

    I see the below more of a adjunct. Imagine if the advice even Dr Hillary backed was followed. It takes around 3 weeks to make a potentially lifesaving difference. Whilst it is wishful thinking perhaps that people would swap favourites for healthier options, if only we could make the host more resilient, surely better outcomes would follow.
     
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  20. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @hankjam I respect your views, your comments years ago really helped me believe what was possible with diet only, for months when I was just reading and not a member your contributions were enormous - thanks.

    Many who regularly follow Ivor know him to be mild mannered and never combative. The referenced video caught my attention due to it being so spicy for him, I think it was due to the person being anonymous, whilst Ivor's posts leave him exposed to the likes of those referenced in @Mr_Pot 's post .

    I have listened to all of Ivor's videos (both Covid / low carb keto and cholesterol). I can find, and bought his book to declare my bias. Interesting that his points didn't hit your ears and eyes in the same way it did me, which is not a criticism, but goes to show how something is delivered can split opinion..
     
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