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COVID vaccination

I have a real problem with anti-vaccine people. The scientists that make them are not fools or witch-doctors, they undergo testing. I was a member of the group disproving the anti MMR forums in America . They did not realise the risks their children faced from measles mumps and rubella. When they met blind and mentally damaged children from measles and realised that this could happen to their children they changed. We daily can see what COVID-19 i doing to people we know! Do you seriously think not being vaccinated will improve a UK death score of more than 60,000 people?
 
Oldvatr said:
point 2 = there are more instances than I have fingers to count them. It is not my job to keep these records, but I trust the overall system that does, Sadly there is evidence of long term harm continuing in survivors beyond the immediate recovery period. The thought of lung scarring and blood clots is not a pleasant one. These are detectable and are proven to happen in Covid patients who survive, not just in post mortem reports,
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Yep I had blood clots even though I wasn't hospitalised. I have headaches now and rarely did before Covid. My heart has gone into AF on at least 5 occasions since having the virus. The mental fatigue is even worse than the physical. My brain doesn't work as well as it did before. My throat and voice are still not strong 9 months afterwards. My BGs aren't as good as they were.
A while back someone here posted that it was wrong that Covid was mentioned on the death certificates even though the patient may have got knocked down by a bus. Well my post covid brain caused me to step out in front of a car a couple of months after 'recovering'.
 
Here's my view on vaccinations. Never thought much about them until I had my first child, 10 weeks prematurely. I was a little apprehensive about him having the jabs. Then I talked to a Mum whose little boy was in the next incubator to my son. Her son had a little brain damage at birth and wasn't advised to have vaccinations. His mum cried because she couldn't do this important thing to keep him safe. I chose to have my son vaccinated to help keep her son and others like him safe.

When the scares over various vaccines happened I chose to still have my sons vaccinated as I knew someone who had not allowed her child to have the whooping cough vaccine. Every time there was a whooping cough outbreak this mum panicked and kept her child indoors. I figured that if you make the decision to say Yes then you only have to make that decision once. If you say No you have to keep on saying it every time there's a scare and if you're not strong enough to keep saying No then you may as well say Yes at the start.

Re Covid vaccine. I am a little apprehensive, but will have it. It's the decent thing to do when I know there are vulnerable people around who may not have that choice. I have already have the virus and would not want to go through that again. It's the worse illness I have ever had. I thought I was going to die. I have had flu 3 times, bronchitis more times than I can remember, bronchial pneumonia, measles, chicken pox, mumps, rubella, scarlet fever and food poisoning. Covid19 was worse than all of those.
 
Oldvatr said:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31604-4/fulltext
This is the basis of the Oxford Zennica vaccine.

The Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines use RNA, which is not recombinant DNA.

Vaccines used to be made from watered-down deactivated virus so they used the live threat as the source (aka smallpox or polio vaccines), These new vaccines use DNA from the common cold, I believe and for the second 2, only part of that DNA so that it has no ability to recombine or self propagate. It is a safer technique than the older types and actually uses our own bodies to manufacture protective proteins rather than use the injected virus proteins. This is what our bodies do naturally every minute of the day we are alive and breathing.
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It's just that the local hospital has had several queries from patients asking this and the clinicians ie consultants do not know what their guidance should be on this matter.

And as insulin is a biologic medication would the vaccine especially as the Oxford vaccine is not an RNA vaccine be OK for T1's or insulin dependent T2's.

"Biologic medication: Biologic medications are large, complex molecules, often made from living cells or tissue. Insulin, Victoza® and Trulicity® are examples of biologic medications that help manage diabetes."

https://www.diabetes.org/blog/insul...and Trulicity,drugs that help manage diabetes.
 
JohnEGreen said:
It's just that the local hospital has had several queries from patients asking this and the clinicians ie consultants do not know what their guidance should be on this matter.

And as insulin is a biologic medication would the vaccine especially as the Oxford vaccine is not an RNA vaccine be OK for T1's or insulin dependent T2's.

"Biologic medication: Biologic medications are large, complex molecules, often made from living cells or tissue. Insulin, Victoza® and Trulicity® are examples of biologic medications that help manage diabetes."

https://www.diabetes.org/blog/insulin-now-biologic-what-does-mean#:~:text=Insulin, Victoza® and Trulicity,drugs that help manage diabetes.
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I'm pretty certain it's a dead one though spent a little time looking for said link and not come up with it................. yet.
 
hankjam said:
I'm pretty certain it's a dead one though spent a little time looking for said link and not come up with it................. yet.
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I have spent some time also on this vexing question and so far not been able to come up with a definitive answer and as far as I know neither have the hospital doctors who prescribe biologics for their patients.
 
JohnEGreen said:
I have spent some time also on this vexing question and so far not been able to come up with a definitive answer and as far as I know neither have the hospital doctors who prescribe biologics for their patients.
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99% of all return searchs are for media outlets......
As the Pfizer and Modena? are mRNA types I think they are considered to be modified, rather than live or inactivated (dead)...
modified in the sense that the genetic material is modified to make the vaccine.
 
hankjam said:
99% of all return searchs are for media outlets......
As the Pfizer and Modena? are mRNA types I think they are considered to be modified, rather than live or inactivated (dead)...
modified in the sense that the genetic material is modified to make the vaccine.
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I agree but for someone on biologics this has to be answered with certainty not assumptions or best guesses particularly if that biologic happens to be insulin I knew that live vaccines were a no no for those on biologics but it took some time for it to slowly dawn on me that insulin is one and that this could effect the out come for so many diabetics.
 
JohnEGreen said:
I agree but for someone on biologics this has to be answered with certainty not assumptions or best guesses particularly if that biologic happens to be insulin I knew that live vaccines were a no no for those on biologics but it took some time for it to slowly dawn on me that insulin is one and that this could effect the out come for so many diabetics.
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Why would injected insulin be any different from the insulin people produce themselves? We all have insulin going around in our bodies, diabetic or not.
 
Antje77 said:
Why would injected insulin be any different from the insulin people produce themselves? We all have insulin going around in our bodies, diabetic or not.
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Synthetic human insulin was the first golden molecule of the biotech industry and the direct result of recombinant DNA technology. Currently, millions of diabetics worldwide use synthetic insulin to regulate their blood sugar levels. Synthetic insulin is made in both bacteria and yeast.

That is by definition a biologic

A biologic is manufactured in a living system such as a microorganism, or plant or animal cells. A drug is typically manufactured through chemical synthesis, which means that it is made by combining specific chemical ingredients in an ordered process.

The insulin you inject is not an exact analogue of what your pancreas would produce. It is synthetic.
 
I was on one of the abatacept trials and live vaccines weren't recommended until 6 months after I'd finished the last dose. Absolutely fine on insulin though. The Pfizer vaccine isn't a live vaccine anyway.
 
It's not a slam dunk, but this may help
https://www.arthritis.org/health-we...vid-19-faqs-medication-treatment-and-vaccines

The only biologics I can find are for arthritis and rheumatism, and most diabetes sites and NHS advice seems to indicate that the current releases are suitable for all types of diabetes. I would expect that with such a high incidence of diabetes in the general population, that it would have been playing a part in the phase 3 trials although there may not be a tick box specific to them.

The article above seems to indicate that those on immunosuppressants have been considered.

The only info I could find that connected insulin with the covid vaccines was regarding patent where this is published in the public domain and the vaccines will be unpatented like insulin.
 
Such a safety issue must be resolved by the relevant channels, A posting on this site is not a primary source, The clinicians have a duty of care to resolve this issue.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jdi.13326
This is an American commentary that is for information, but is not suitable for UK use in decision making,
 
Could I just remind folks that our Ethos and Rules require we remain polite and respectful to other members. Of course there will be times when we agree or disagree with a member, and sometimes such an emotion will be somewhat vigorous, but that doesn't negate our need for politeness. The Ethos and Rules cover how any conflicts should be handled by members.

Community Ethos & Forum Rules | Diabetes Forum • The Global Diabetes Community

As a team, the Mods continue to apply as light a touch policy to the forum as practical - even to highly emotive threads such as this. To be clear, this post isn't aimed at any individual person.
 
As I have said the conultants working in the local NHS hospital are not able to give their patients on biologics clear guidance on this matter as they are unsure of the facts regarding covid vaccine and biologics, they have sought and are awaiting guidance from the relevant authority on this and so far have received non, and insulin is classed as a biologic this makes it a grey area I do think that before having a vaccine it would be advisable to seek advice from your medical team if on insulin on this and not take it for granted that it will be OK not wishing to be doom and gloom I think in all probability this shouldn't be a problem but I for one would seek clarity about it.
 
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For clarity the word from on high is that the Pfizer vaccine is definitely not a live vaccine but the Oxford vaccine is as far as they are concerned an unknown quantity as it has not been distributed yet so they don;t have any information on that.
 
Oldvatr said:
That is NOT what this document says, It merely says that there is no data specific to fertility. Pregnancy, the advice is to avoid getting pregnant within 2 months of the doses, and not to be administereed to those already pregnant or planning imminent pregnancy as a precaution. Again this is because it has not been demonstrated in the trials so far, These are sensible precautions that are necessary on first rollout of a new treatment, Nothing unusual here.
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The document says Fertility It is unknown whether COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 has an impact on fertility so that tells me if you ever want to have children you would be better not having it because they're saying they don't know if it can make you sterile. Not worth it over an ever changing cold virus.
 
hankjam said:
Really not sure how you got there....
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FertilityIt is unknown whether COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2has an impact on fertility.
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Why would it be in the document if it's not possible? They don't know if it can cause infertility? If you ever want children better not taking the chance, no?
 
bobduff said:
The document says Fertility It is unknown whether COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 has an impact on fertility so that tells me if you ever want to have children you would be better not having it because they're saying they don't know if it can make you sterile. Not worth it over an ever changing cold virus.
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Realistic, maybe. Bill Gates, the spokesperson of the covid situation is a eugenicist that has invested billions in vaccines and spoken many times about population reduction. Now he cares about humanity? Can he be trusted?
 
bobduff said:
The document says Fertility It is unknown whether COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 has an impact on fertility so that tells me if you ever want to have children you would be better not having it because they're saying they don't know if it can make you sterile. Not worth it over an ever-changing cold virus.
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As I said elsewhere in this thread, you have to remain fit and well clear of Covid for exactly the same reasoning. We do not know what effect Covid has on Fertility, but we know it could certainly curtail the ability to have children in the future, and not just in the reproductive organs dept. I will mark your post here Optimistic, To me its a no-brainer, but then I am past the procreation stage now, PS we do not yet know if Covid could affect fetuses long term (Zikka does).
 
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