Patch said:Kenny - you've lost 5kg in 7 days?!?
borofergie said:I'm joining the suicidal guinea pigs brigade as soon as the shakes arrive
sugar2 said:For this diet to work, is it essential to have a Southpark avatar??
Kenny said:Given the old dawn syndrome thingey, I would probably have had a lower reading if I'd wandered around for half an hour before testing. Is that cheating?
Kenny said:I am seeking slimness, fitness, wellness and glory.
Kenny said:Health club - 20 minutes on the exercise bike, surprisingly strong and heart rate not at all high.
Yep -- that would clean ya out.. I didn't read the conclusion you say was in the study about any diet will do. I'll read again.. If that were the case then this particular diet wouldn't have been 'uniquely' effective to the study group as it seems to have been. There are MANY who super low carb that don't have clear from fat pancreases and livers. So I'm a little confused there. But we agree you are doing a GREAT thing for your future. No doubt!!Kenny said:Yes I agree with you totally about the fact that I have to get to normal weight. 8 weeks is just the beginning. I think a low calorie diet with exercise (maybe 1000 calories) will become a permanent feature until I get to my target weight of 76Kg. Weighed in this morning at 108, so only 32Kg to go!!!
Regarding the results of the Newcastle study, the lead professor actually stated that he believed that the same results were achievable using any method of weight reduction, so I'm not too hung up on following the diet to a tee. If I don't get the results I'm hoping for, I'll just do it again and stick to the diet exactly, or I'll go the whole hog and do a zero calorie diet a.k.a. water fasting. Can't get a more drastic shock to the system than a water fast! I'll bet a 7 day water fast burns liver and pancreas fat even more effectively than the Newcastle study.
I don't see why not. I'm in a similar boat right now in that I'm an avid cyclist - but still about 3.5 stone from my perfect weight. I eat about 60-70g of carbs on exercise days but my staying power past 12 miles has been dim of late and the pain in my muscles lasts for 2 days.. Actually the 2nd day after is worse than the DAY after. So one of my gurus, a lady accross the street from me who cycles competitively said my problem was not enough carbs/protein before I cycle. That a PROTEIN bar 30 minutes before I go will get me through the journey with plenty of energy to spare and no muscle aches the next day. I tried it -- after she gave me a couple of hers and WOW WOW WOW -- she was right.. BOY I stopped at 13 miles but could have gone DOUBLE that with the way I felt.. I got home and my blood sugar was still a little elevated from the 35g of carbs.. But not much.. Burning FAT NEVER gave me anywhere near that energy.. So I'm willing to live with my bikeride burning less fat BUT are there PROTEIN bars with little to no 'carbs'???? Maybe a protein shake??Patch said:NewDestinyX said:Herbalife/Optifast shakes are FULL of protein and for good reason. It's the ONLY WAY a liquid diet based on shakes actually can work and not have you 'starve to death'.
Is there a reason that this "Shake Diet" approach wouldn't work using Protein Powder (the kind body builders use)? I've hasd some before that was only 1.2g carbs per serving, compared with Optislims 21g per serving.
If it's the protein that stops th ebody going into starvation mode, could I do the shake diet with 1.2g per serving Protein Powder? (I'd expect to go right into ketosis on 3.6g of carbs per day!!!)
Ooo, Kenny!! Firstly - GREAT WORK-mate!!!Kenny said:Firstly, let me say I'm enormously proud of myself, indeed smug, to have actually completed the first 7 days. Today has been another good day, decent-ish energy, the mildest of aches. Skipped breakfast and had the leftovers of yesterday's french onion soup for lunch. Snacked a very few olives and almonds. Health club - 20 minutes on the exercise bike, surprisingly strong and heart rate not at all high. I'll bet my blood pressure is down. For dinner I just had a herbalife shake, which is beginning to taste OK again, as well as red peppers, a few olives and a mushroom. Made the shake with water to keep calories down hehe. This afternoon I wandered around Tesco's and looked at the calorie content of all the chocolate bars. You know, I could actually replace one meal with a snickers and not go over my 600cal limit! But I managed to overcome the temptation to act on that.
I am seeking slimness, fitness, wellness and glory.
A) how do you know with any certainty that there are many on low-carb diets who have not significantly reduced or cleared the excess fat from their organs? Have they all had MRIs as in this study?NewdestinyX said:...I didn't read the conclusion you say was in the study about any diet will do. I'll read again.. If that were the case then this particular diet wouldn't have been 'uniquely' effective to the study group as it seems to have been. There are MANY who super low carb that don't have clear from fat pancreases and livers. So I'm a little confused there. ...
Source... http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20110624/very-low-calorie-diet-may-reverse-diabetes"We used the 600-calorie diet to test a hypothesis. What I can tell you definitively is that if people lose substantial weight by normal means, they will lose their diabetes," says study head Roy Taylor,MD, director of the Newcastle Magnetic Resonance Centre at Newcastle University in England.
You don't need the specific data to make a logical conclusion/correlation simply by the fact that not all low carbers have good A1c's/nearly normal monthly BG levels which means 'fat around organs' is at least 'one' of the possibilities for that to be so. Certainly there's no way to know for sure - but educated guesses are very possible that you can then base your own course of action upon. The point is - even well managed low carb diets aren't the smoking gun of diabetic remission potential. They're 'one tool' in the tool chest. And I've agreed with you on several occasions that this study is 'light' in many ways.pianoman said:A) how do you know with any certainty that there are many on low-carb diets who have not significantly reduced or cleared the excess fat from their organs? Have they all had MRIs as in this study?NewdestinyX said:...I didn't read the conclusion you say was in the study about any diet will do. I'll read again.. If that were the case then this particular diet wouldn't have been 'uniquely' effective to the study group as it seems to have been. There are MANY who super low carb that don't have clear from fat pancreases and livers. So I'm a little confused there. ...
and
B) why is it even relevant? Are you seriously comparing this severely calorie-restricted diet to a well-planned low-carb diet?
Ok. There it is. And, yes, his statement is too overreaching. We agree.---
edited to add...
At WebMD Dr Taylor is quoted as saying...Source... http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20110624/very-low-calorie-diet-may-reverse-diabetes"We used the 600-calorie diet to test a hypothesis. What I can tell you definitively is that if people lose substantial weight by normal means, they will lose their diabetes," says study head Roy Taylor,MD, director of the Newcastle Magnetic Resonance Centre at Newcastle University in England.
That may be his personal opinion but I don't seen how he can state that based on the results of this study alone.
Except for the 'fact' that many (if not most) of those I converse with on these forums who are using a low-carb approach (including myself and dare I suggest you as well?) are doing so precisely because it has allowed them to manage improved (near normal) average monthly BGs and at least Pre-Diabetic A1c levels -- often with much reduced or no medication -- comparable to this study's results. By your own logic this suggests that they have indeed successfully reduced or eliminated excess fat from the affected organs.NewdestinyX said:You don't need the specific data to make a logical conclusion/correlation simply by the fact that not all low carbers have good A1c's/nearly normal monthly BG levels which means 'fat around organs' is at least 'one' of the possibilities for that to be so. Certainly there's no way to know for sure - but educated guesses are very possible that you can then base your own course of action upon. The point is - even well managed low carb diets aren't the smoking gun of diabetic remission potential. They're 'one tool' in the tool chest.
NewdestinyX said:are there PROTEIN bars with little to no 'carbs'???? Maybe a protein shake??
Welcome, friend!borofergie said:I've had my last supper.
NewdestinyX said:Source... http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20110624/very-low-calorie-diet-may-reverse-diabetes"We used the 600-calorie diet to test a hypothesis. What I can tell you definitively is that if people lose substantial weight by normal means, they will lose their diabetes," says study head Roy Taylor,MD, director of the Newcastle Magnetic Resonance Centre at Newcastle University in England.
Ok. There it is. And, yes, his statement is too overreaching. We agree.
Yes, I'm not following herbalife strictly. I don't care. I'm in charge. In any case, the original study used optifast not herbalife. The main thing is that I am restricting my calorie intake to 600-800 cals per day.ebony321 said:Your not following the herbalife as you should, as you've found the shakes are 'orrible. So your eating alot of veg and soup. To me this just sounds like a very low-carb diet?
Not at this stage, no. The only test that really matters is the oral glucose tolerance test that I will take when I reach a BMI of 24. Complete weight loss will mean complete defatizing of my pancreas, thereby restoration of insulin secretion, and restoration of peripheral insulin sensitivity.ebony321 said:Secondly to monitor if you are infact 'curing' your diabetes, shouldn't you be testing more?
Read the success stories thread. A girl with terrible diabetes went on some radical diet and ended up being turned away by a clinic when she asked for follow up care. The clinic said "You don't have diabetes". Others say that they still take care of what they eat but that if they pig out occasionally, like at Christmas, their blood sugar readings remain non-diabetic.ebony321 said:If you then have indeed cured your diabetes. you could then eat what the heck you wanted, mars bars, bags of crisps. Homer sized sandwiches. because if you can't, i'm sorry you do still have diabetes, because your body still cant process carbs like someone without diabetes can.
Which i haven't heard of ANYONE be able to do that.
Oh ye of little faith! I was reading last night that some doctors view diabetes as a natural condition of the body as a defense mechanism for when there is too much lipid content in muscle cells; in other words, diabetes is not even a 'disease' or 'disorder'. Apparently excess lipids in cells are difficult to shift. Perhaps the total cure is a combination of weight loss and the time (3 years?) necessary for the cells to die and be replaced.ebony321 said:i simply do not believe diabetes can be cured.
If you read the study carefully, very carefully, I mean in the small print, you will see that having a south park avatar is an essential part of the protocol. Come join us, friend.ebony321 said:With your south park avatars. You cure your diabetes and i will happily re-voke all my questions, ponderings and doubts!!! Heck, you do it and i'll get a south park avatar!
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