Deficient eating problem....would welcome comments.

[WeeWillie]

Hi,

I'm a 68 year old male.... (but ain't no old fogey)
I've been diabetic for the last 17 years.
It's now being controlled, rather unsuccessfully, with.....
I80mg Gliclazide 2 tabs twice per day.
Lantus Solostar injection 65 once per day.
Victoza injection 1.2 per day.
I was previously prescribed Metforman, but was told to stop them when I started using Victoza
1 year ago.

Glucose levels from 10.0 - 22.0 with an average of 14)

I was wondering if anyone has experience of any eating problems similar to mine, who would be
willing to share with me...
how you are coping with the problem, and if it's significantly affecting your sugar levels.

For quite some time now I've been unable to face what would be classed as normal meals for diabetics.
I'm at the stage now where my "weekly" intake of food is chosen from any of the following...

Toast/bread with Flora light Margarine.

Tea biscuits.

Ryvita Wholegrain Crackerbread with Light Marg thin
chicken slices or thin turkey roast ham slices.

Egg mayonnaise sandwiches.

Apples/oranges or one banana.
Perhaps I should stay clear of bananas, but one certainly helps fill the stomach.

Home made soup once a week or an occasional home made chicken or lamb (mild) curry.
Occasional fish and chips (not from the chippy) or chips with a small pie and beans.

Weetabix.

Diabetic ice cream, small pots of sugar free jelly.

Most enjoyable meal of the day, if you can call it a meal, breakfast of toast with light marg and
the old cup of coffee.
I previously ate wholemeal bread but it started giving me stomach pain. I now eat half white half wholemeal with no bits.

Other meds....
Finisteride 5mg once per day.
Lanzoprazole 30mg twice per day.
Venlalic XL 75mg 1 per day.
Tabphyn MR 400 mg 1 per day.
Ferrous Fumarate 210mg 3 per day.
Ramipril 5mg 1 per day.
Amlodipine 10mg 1 per day.
Atenolol OL 50mg 1 per day.
Aspirin disp 50mg 1 per day.
Co-Codamol 30 + 500mg Max up to 2 tabs 3 times per day.
I'm not if these meds are contributing to the eating problem.

I really would be grateful and would welcome anyone's comments/advice.

With apologies for long post.
ww.

 

[initforlove]

I count at least 185 carbs in what you said you eat and that is if I count only 1 piece of toast and 2 weetbix

you probably consume much more than 185 carbohydrates daily but only you can work that out

most people who manage their type 2 diabetes well and start taking fewer medications stick to under 50 grams of carbohydrates

if you are on the standard diet as advised by diabetic dieticians then that is the way it goes - you get worse and need ever more medications

those of us who choose low carb eating and lie to our doctors and dieticians about it, we feel we manage our type 2 diabetes better

it is a choice we are making

and to cut down carbs? just have the meat and veggies but no potato or bread or rice or breakfast cereals not even the brown kind

 

[Sarah69]

I count at least 185 carbs in what you said you eat and that is if I count only 1 piece of toast and 2 weetabix

I'm not the most knowledgable diabetic but in my carb counting book 2 weetabix Is 28g and toast or a slice of bread is 15g so a total of 43g so I don't know how you get 185?

 

[initforlove]

I count at least 185 carbs in what you said you eat and that is if I count only 1 piece of toast and 2 weetabix

I'm not the most knowledgable diabetic but in my carb counting book 2 weetabix Is 28g and toast or a slice of bread is 15g so a total of 43g so I don't know how you get 185?

absolutely correct - 1 piece of bread and 2 weetabix is only 43

but much more than just those was mentioned as the regular eating pattern

 

[Sarah69]

Oh yes I understand that but you said you'd only counted the toast and the weetabix.

 

[phoenix]

I assume from what you say that you don't feel like eating and/or are feeling discomfort with many foods. (notice an absence of veg and as you say you can't eat whole grain bread )

It may be worth asking for a drugs review .
I only looked up two drugs from your list but both cause possible problems. (bit of an educated guess my father takes these)
Ferrous fumarate:
possible side effects include
gastrointestinal irritation
constipation
nausea
stomach pain
diarrhoea
http://www.nhs.uk/medicine-guides/pages ... 20fumarate

amlodipine

Pain in the abdomen or feeling sick (Eat little and often. Stick to simple foods)
http://www.patient.co.uk/medicine/Amlodipine.htm

 

[initforlove]

Oh yes I understand that but you said you'd only counted the toast and the weetabix.

no i did not

what i said is that i counted one of the toast and 2 of the weetabix even though it is more likely that several more of the bread and the weetabix were in fact consumed

 

[carty]

Would it not br better to help the OP rather than arguing about what was said and what was meant ?
Wee willie I am sure Daisy will be along to give you the advice that is good for us DBs and explains more about carbs and there effect on us
CAROL

 

[Sid Bonkers]

most people who manage their type 2 diabetes well and start taking fewer medications stick to under 50 grams of carbohydrates

Sorry but that is just not true, some T2 diabetics manage their condition by eating under 50g of carbs a day but most dont, there are many more who eat more than 50g and manage their condition very well indeed, myself included.

those of us who choose low carb eating and lie to our doctors and dieticians about it, we feel we manage our type 2 diabetes better

I cant believe that you are even suggesting that lying to your doctor is a good idea, how on earth can your doctor help you if you lie to him/her? I really hope a time never comes when you are misdiagnosed because you have lied to your doctor. You dont have to agree with your doctor all the time but you should always be truthful with them or you run the very serious risk of some health problem being overlooked.

If you are low carbing and are doing well then why lie about it? And if you are low carbing and not doing well then why not ask for advice, no doctor can force you to do anything against your will but you should at least listen to their opinion, then you can make your own decision about what action to take.

Have faith in what you are doing or what is the point? I honestly cant see any reason for lying to anyone least of all my doctor...

 

[carty]

I agree Sid
My GP and I agree to differ on some things such as strips for testing but I always tell him that my way is working and what I am doing .Lying could result in serious consequences if you were ill and the GP didnt know what you were doing
CAROL

 

[daisy1]

Hi WeeWillie and welcome to the forum

Here is the information that Carol mentioned which was written for new members and I hope you will find it helpful. Carry on asking questions.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find well over 30,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes ... rains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips
The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

 

[hanadr]

That looks a lot like a carbohyrate addiction. You'd certainly need shedloads of medication to deal with that, especially if your portions are "generous".
If you like egg sandwiches, How do you feel about scrambled eggs with only a mini slice of toast?
What do you mean by "Normal meals for diabetics"?
For me personally [ a well controlled diabetic of a similar age to you, 66,] A normal meal is almost carbohydrate free.
Each diabetic must decide for him/herself, which way they mean to go in the control of their condition. The extremes are; very low carb and minimal medication up to high carb and loads of medication, with all points between being possible.
If you let me know which foods you dislike and which you enjoy, i'll try to come up with some suggestions for meals, which won't do too much damage to blood sugar. You must realise yours is too high for your own safety!
Hana

 

[anna29]

Hello WeeWillie.
For just me, all those white carbs would defenitely make me ill :sick:
Simply wouldnt be able to digest them well AND they would make my BG levels soar sky wards.
I have to avoid the beige foods [wheat and gluten in them]

You could try hana's suggestion - write list of things you like/enjoy
It can be adapted to be both tasty and lower the blood sugar levels too :thumbup:
Great offer of support there for you ...

Anna.

 

[carty]

As hana has said eggs are good, try grating a little cheese on your scrambled egg and grilled bacon is very tasty .This sort of thing will help your taste buds and you may feel more like eating and enjoy your food .A lot of starchy carbs have the opposite effect they "dumb down" your taste buds and also make you feel lethargic There are lots of tasty recipes on this forum that are tried and tested by Diabetics ,maybe start slowly but I am sure you will feel much better soon
CAROL

 

[WeeWillie]

Hello again,
Gosh, I never expected as many replies so quickly, thank you so much and I'm sorry I've taken a couple of days to reply myself..

I'll need to digest all your kind thoughts, words, and advice, digest them and come back to explain just a little bit more of the situation.

Would it not br better to help the OP rather than arguing about what was said and what was meant ?
Wee willie I am sure Daisy will be along to give you the advice that is good for us DBs and explains more about carbs and there effect on us
CAROL

Ooops, I really did not intend to cause confusion.

"OP" = meaning = OAP ?.... outrageous. I'm a young 28 year old man.(in my mind)

Seriously though, thank you all again for taking time out to reply.
I'll be back soon to reply.
Best wishes,
WW.

 

[))Denise((]

In forum speak OP means original poster, which means the person who started the question.

 

[carty]

Sorry if I misled you but I cant spell ori watsit poster :lol:
CAROL

 

[cheltenhamlady]

Much the same levels as yourself for years up to 8 days ago now levels all under 10 and dropped lantus from 100 per day to 40 today, just in 8 days!!! Still on 1.2 victosa etc just like you! How did @I do it, found a diet on FB called terri-ann 123 EASY to stick to, yes really, have also lost 5 lb in 4 days. Was a bit scarey at first being used to waking with levels of 17 to now waking with levels of 6 spoke to dietician at hospital and she ok'd me dropping the insulin levels, I had to as the levels dropped so fast! I dropped them by 10 a day most days. I have given up bread, fruit and veg on this diet and snack on meat and low fat yogurt, can eat as much beef / chicken / fish in a day as I like
I am also Cheltenhamlady on FB if you want to add me and chat anytime

 

[WeeWillie]

I count at least 185 carbs in what you said you eat and that is if I count only 1 piece of toast and 2 weetbix

you probably consume much more than 185 carbohydrates daily but only you can work that out most people who manage their type 2 diabetes well and start taking fewer medications stick to under 50 grams of carbohydrates if you are on the standard diet as advised by diabetic dieticians then that is the way it goes - you get worse and need ever more medications those of us who choose low carb eating and lie to our doctors and dieticians about it, we feel we manage our type 2 diabetes better it is a choice we are making and to cut down carbs? just have the meat and veggies but no potato or bread or rice or breakfast cereals not even the brown kind

Thank you for replying so promptly with your help and advice initforlove.
The thing is, I don't have the luxury of choosing what I should be eating.
It's a real pain in the bottom. Aaaaand a severe nuisance into the bargain. :roll:

Incidentally, I don't eat the entire weekly list of food I mentioned, it's only a partial amount in the list I consume weekly.

____________________________________________________________

I assume from what you say that you don't feel like eating and/or are feeling discomfort with many foods. (notice an absence of veg and as you say you can't eat whole grain bread )

It may be worth asking for a drugs review .
I only looked up two drugs from your list but both cause possible problems. (bit of an educated guess my father takes these)
Ferrous fumarate:
possible side effects include
gastrointestinal irritation
constipation
nausea
stomach pain
diarrhoea
http://www.nhs.uk/medicine-guides/pages/MedicineOverview.aspx?medicine=Ferrous%20fumarate

amlodipine

Pain in the abdomen or feeling sick (Eat little and often. Stick to simple foods)
http://www.patient.co.uk/medicine/Amlodipine.htm

You're nearly correct Phoenix, you see I just cannot face the food I should be eating.
The only discomfort I have is with wholemeal bread.

This evening for instance, all I could stomach was some tea biscuits washed down with a coffee.

Gradually not being able to face food started approx a year ago, which was two years after I was prescribed the latest med... Finasteride. So I guess I can't link the problem to the meds.

____________________________________________________________

Hi WeeWillie and welcome to the forum

Here is the information that Carol mentioned which was written for new members and I hope you will find it helpful. Carry on asking questions.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS Thank you for the welcome daisy.
The links you gave me are are very helpful. When I eventually conquer this silly eating problem I'll be relying on them to set me on the correct path for a much healthier eating routine.

____________________________________________________________

That looks a lot like a carbohyrate addiction. You'd certainly need shedloads of medication to deal with that, especially if your portions are "generous".
If you like egg sandwiches, How do you feel about scrambled eggs with only a mini slice of toast?
What do you mean by "Normal meals for diabetics"?
For me personally [ a well controlled diabetic of a similar age to you, 66,] A normal meal is almost carbohydrate free.
Each diabetic must decide for him/herself, which way they mean to go in the control of their condition. The extremes are; very low carb and minimal medication up to high carb and loads of medication, with all points between being possible.
If you let me know which foods you dislike and which you enjoy, i'll try to come up with some suggestions for meals, which won't do too much damage to blood sugar. You must realise yours is too high for your own safety!
Hana

I know Hanah, my sugar levels are a real concern for me, it's a worry, and my portions of food aren't high.
I thank you for your kind offer of help which I'd like to take up.
I'll come back to you if I may as I'm trying to keep this long post as short as I can.
btw, I hope I haven't overlooked anyone.

____________________________________________________________

Hello WeeWillie.
For just me, all those white carbs would defenitely make me ill :sick:
Simply wouldnt be able to digest them well AND they would make my BG levels soar sky wards.
I have to avoid the beige foods [wheat and gluten in them]

You could try hana's suggestion - write list of things you like/enjoy
It can be adapted to be both tasty and lower the blood sugar levels too :thumbup:
Great offer of support there for you ...

Anna.

Thank you Anna, and yes, I'm going to do that very thing.

Some of the things we have to put up with... it just ain't funny, eh.

____________________________________________________________

As hana has said eggs are good, try grating a little cheese on your scrambled egg and grilled bacon is very tasty .This sort of thing will help your taste buds and you may feel more like eating and enjoy your food .A lot of starchy carbs have the opposite effect they "dumb down" your taste buds and also make you feel lethargic There are lots of tasty recipes on this forum that are tried and tested by Diabetics ,maybe start slowly but I am sure you will feel much better soon
CAROL

Carol, as I read all the advice and comments, I'm getting more and more excited at the prospect I may just succeed in overcoming the problem, thank you.
btw, after I had a heart attack in 2006 I was told not to eat cheese, but I think I'll make enquiries about that as it's been 6 years now, perhaps it may not apply after this length of time.

___________________________________________________________

In forum speak OP means original poster, which means the person who started the question.

Aaaah, that's me told. lol Thank you Denise.

____________________________________________________________

Much the same levels as yourself for years up to 8 days ago now levels all under 10 and dropped lantus from 100 per day to 40 today, just in 8 days!!! Still on 1.2 victosa etc just like you! How did @I do it, found a diet on FB called terri-ann 123 EASY to stick to, yes really, have also lost 5 lb in 4 days. Was a bit scarey at first being used to waking with levels of 17 to now waking with levels of 6 spoke to dietician at hospital and she ok'd me dropping the insulin levels, I had to as the levels dropped so fast! I dropped them by 10 a day most days. I have given up bread, fruit and veg on this diet and snack on meat and low fat yogurt, can eat as much beef / chicken / fish in a day as I like
I am also Cheltenhamlady on FB if you want to add me and chat anytime

That's amazing cheltenhamlady, I'll Google the diet and read what it has to say.
btw, Lantus...100 per day, wow, I was told the upper limit was 80.

I've just completed a very quick Google search which confirms your "100"
Despite requesting UK sites, the one's that came up were American. No disrespect to the USA sites, but I'd like to read UK sites.

Aaaarg, FaceBook frightens me. lol. I tried it years ago, blimey, all those unkown names requesting I be thier friend. :shock:

____________________________________________________________

I've other health problems I'm as well sharing with you.
Nerve damage at the base of the spine.
Hiatus Hernia.
Labarynthitis.
Sciatica in one leg and opposite ankle.
Several small ulcers in the stomach that refuse to be healed.
Irritable Bowel Syndrome.
Unstable Angina. (post- heart attack 2006)
Internal bleeding.
High blood pressure.
Enlarged Prostrate Gland. (now with a non-malignant growth - being treated)
Sleep Apnoea. The results of tests at the hospital 11 years ago show I stop breathing 112 times each night, Amazingly that number is not considered high, so there's some poor folks much worse than me.
The hospital subsequently gave me a breathing machine that keeps the airways open when I'm asleep.

Depression. I've clinical depression, a chemical deficiency in the brain. I've suffered from it since I was a young lad without it being being it treated properly however, after many many trials my doctor finally discovered the medication which has finally and reliably replaced the missing chemical defficiency, so it's now in control.

Aaand finally.... a Baldy Head.

Phew, hope that hasn't bored the pants off you all.

 

[WeeWillie]

Well, this is my fourth day without bread, so I hope that will prove to be a positive step for me.
The only thing is I'll need to find something I can eat to replace the toast I usually have for breakfast. At the moment I've replaced it with Weetabix.

Yesterday my wife made a sausage casserole for my dinner which I used to love, but I could only pick at it. She knows my eating problem, so she wasn't offended, just rather disappointed it wasn't a success for me.

I was with my doctor's practise nurse yesterday to discuss T2, and, as with the hospital consultant I see once per year, I could not get across the difficulty I have with my food intake. They just don't appear to grasp how serious it is.
Perhaps they think I'm exaggerating, or worse, perhaps they think I'm not quite the full shilling.

Still we live in hope.

Hana, I haven't forgotten your extremely kind offer of help. I told my wife about you, she was very impressed indeed.

WW