Diabetes/Thyroid connection?

[coby]

Hi all.
For some time now I've been noticing lots of people on the site mentioning thyroid issues, and so now I am wondering if there is a definite connection between having Diabetes and also having Thyroid problems?
If so, then is it that Diabetics are more prone to developing this, or is it the other way around?

 

[EllieM]

For some time now I've been noticing lots of people on the site mentioning thyroid issues, and so now I am wondering if there is a definite connection between having Diabetes and also having Thyroid problems?
If so, then is it that Diabetics are more prone to developing this, or is it the other way around?

I think it may be a bit of both, because they are both malfunctions of the endocrine system.
Interesting article here (well, the first half is, my eyes started to glaze over half way through and I skipped to the conclusion)
Thyroid Disorders and Diabetes Mellitus - PMC (nih.gov)

As a T1 I'm at high risk, apparently, which is probably why I see a thyroid test on my annual diabetic review quite often.

 

[Resurgam]

My thyroid packed up long ago - but I have always had problems with carbs.
Now that I have been eating low carb and having consistently low glucose levels for almost 5 years my need for Thyroxine has reduced - I took 200 micrograms daily for at least a decade, and now I am down to 125.

 

[Erin]

My thyroid packed up long ago - but I have always had problems with carbs.
Now that I have been eating low carb and having consistently low glucose levels for almost 5 years my need for Thyroxine has reduced - I took 200 micrograms daily for at least a decade, and now I am down to 125.

Didn't 200 micrograms of thyroxine make you nervous Resurgam? I take 0.112 to balance a med interaction, and I have found that Synthroid can make me hyperactive or lethargic if lowered to 100 for example.

 

[sleepster]

I have hypothyroidism but I have a dodgy immune system. They told me many moons ago (probably about 15 years) that I would end up with an underactive thyroid at some point because I had the antibodies.

 

[Resurgam]

Didn't 200 micrograms of thyroxine make you nervous Resurgam? I take 0.112 to balance a med interaction, and I have found that Synthroid can make me hyperactive or lethargic if lowered to 100 for example.

No, not at all - I was always very active and energetic and went in for caving, sailing, hill walking, swimming, cycling and could never pass the activity equipment in the local park without swinging across the horizontal ladder - just to see if I could still do it. When I was working I was always surprised at how quickly people ran out of energy. I was diagnosed with a failed thyroid after complaining of things not being right for some time, and then my doses were gradually increased. The level of thyroid stimulating hormone was four thousand times higher than normal at first and although the GP tried to leave me on a lower dose the TSH remained high until I was put on the 2 x 100 microgram tablets.

 

[Dandelade]

Hi Coby, fairly new to both but I’ve done lots of reading. Yes as said it’s thought one can lead to the other.

When I look back and think of symptoms it was definitely the hypothyroid that started first, then insulin resistance, which I think made the thyroid worse recently.

In my quest to find out the science why in my case;
1. thyroid gland attacked by the immune system as seen with high antibodies.
2. levels of thyroid hormones (t4/3) reduce due to this - I know simplistic loads of other stuff actually going on
2. Thyroid stimulating hormone TSH increases because the levels t4 have dropped
3. High TSH causes insulin resistance at the peripheral tissues - by some mechanism I don’t quite understand yet.
4. High insulin causes lowered thyroid hormones by some unknown mechanism.

It might be the other way round for others nobody knows for sure!

I’m not quite sure how much is gaps in my k owl edge and how much is that it is generally unknown! Would love someone to come along and explain more...

 

[Dandelade]

While we’ve got an active diabetes thyroid thread I’ve been reading about the effect of low carb and keto diets on thyroid function.

Lots of controversy with different sources even citing the same studies for and against using keto which seems to decrease free t3 but increases sensitivity of the body to t3 so that it maybe doesn’t matter.

Personally it doesn’t matter for me as TSH and antibodies are so high I need levothyroxine regardless. I have to admit it’s making me nervous though. Any thoughts or experiences from others?

 

[Dandelade]

I think it may be a bit of both, because they are both malfunctions of the endocrine system.
Interesting article here (well, the first half is, my eyes started to glaze over half way through and I skipped to the conclusion)
Thyroid Disorders and Diabetes Mellitus - PMC (nih.gov)

As a T1 I'm at high risk, apparently, which is probably why I see a thyroid test on my annual diabetic review quite often.

Thanks for the link @EllieM at glance it seems some answers to my questions are in there but I can’t quite get through my brain fog at the moment to pick out what I want! Will definitely return to it when I feel better.

 

[coby]

I think it may be a bit of both, because they are both malfunctions of the endocrine system.
Interesting article here (well, the first half is, my eyes started to glaze over half way through and I skipped to the conclusion)
Thyroid Disorders and Diabetes Mellitus - PMC (nih.gov)

As a T1 I'm at high risk, apparently, which is probably why I see a thyroid test on my annual diabetic review quite often.

Thank you for that @EllieM and I will read it later. x

 

[coby]

Hi Coby, fairly new to both but I’ve done lots of reading. Yes as said it’s thought one can lead to the other.

When I look back and think of symptoms it was definitely the hypothyroid that started first, then insulin resistance, which I think made the thyroid worse recently.

In my quest to find out the science why in my case;
1. thyroid gland attacked by the immune system as seen with high antibodies.
2. levels of thyroid hormones (t4/3) reduce due to this - I know simplistic loads of other stuff actually going on
2. Thyroid stimulating hormone TSH increases because the levels t4 have dropped
3. High TSH causes insulin resistance at the peripheral tissues - by some mechanism I don’t quite understand yet.
4. High insulin causes lowered thyroid hormones by some unknown mechanism.

It might be the other way round for others nobody knows for sure!

I’m not quite sure how much is gaps in my k owl edge and how much is that it is generally unknown! Would love someone to come along and explain more...

This is all really interesting to read @Dandelade and I'm very glad that I asked. I do like to try to learn as much as I can about other complications for we diabetics x

 

[Dandelade]

This is all really interesting to read @Dandelade and I'm very glad that I asked. I do like to try to learn as much as I can about other complications for we diabetics x

Thanks Coby, I totally agree. Learning from and supporting each other has been such a powerful tool, I e taken a lot of comfort from others such as yourselves. Especially since the answers are usually in science heavy journal articles, like we aren’t stupid and I want to know more than surface level information, but it’s not quite accessible it seems?...

 

[AndBreathe]

@coby - I think we mustn't get going down rabbit holes too quickly here. Thyroid malfunction is incredibly common - in something like 2% of the adult population, rising yo c5% in those over 50(if my recall is accurate). Obviously, not all of those with thyroid malfunctions will develop diabetes, nor will all those with diabetes develop thyroid malfunctions.

Where there us a definite link is in auto-immune thyroiditis (Hashimoto's Disease), and diabetes, due to the auto-immune nature. I deliberately haven't differentiated the types of diabetes as although T2 isn't wholly AI, there are many folks with AI conditions also living with T2. For me T2 is a portfolio condition, with many common bedfellows and passengers on the journey.

I developed an atypical thyroid malfunction a few years after my T2 diagnosis - my main symptom was always feeling very, very cold. My family is littered with AI disease, so the Endo ordered up a massive list of tests, looking for every condition I listed, plus a few more for good measure and sport, it seemed. At that point, I had dodged every single AI bullet.

I am treated with a combination therapy of 125mcgr Levothyroxine (T4) and 50mcgr Liothyronine (T3) per day.

Personally, I try not to go too far down these linking rabbit holes as it doesn't necessarily hold true for everyone, and we could end up living life waiting for scary things to happen, which isn't what life's for. I just try to look after myself as well as I can and hope my body will be strong for me.

Sometimes our genes are wonderful, and sometimes they conspire against us, but changing our genetic make up isn't generally under our control.

 

[Erin]

No, not at all - I was always very active and energetic and went in for caving, sailing, hill walking, swimming, cycling and could never pass the activity equipment in the local park without swinging across the horizontal ladder - just to see if I could still do it. When I was working I was always surprised at how quickly people ran out of energy. I was diagnosed with a failed thyroid after complaining of things not being right for some time, and then my doses were gradually increased. The level of thyroid stimulating hormone was four thousand times higher than normal at first and although the GP tried to leave me on a lower dose the TSH remained high until I was put on the 2 x 100 microgram tablets.

That sounds like possibly hyperthyroidism to me; but if you are young and healthy your body can "take" it.

 

[Resurgam]

That sounds like possibly hyperthyroidism to me; but if you are young and healthy your body can "take" it.

If so then it runs in the family.
My mother had five sisters and two brothers and they used to be quite a feature at the local dances in York in their younger days, always the first on the floor and dancing all evening. They used to make their shoes themselves and then put on new soles until they fell to pieces.

 

[AndBreathe]

That sounds like possibly hyperthyroidism to me; but if you are young and healthy your body can "take" it.

Erin, the recognised list of symptoms for hypothyroiodism is very long, but of course, not everyone has them or, or indeed many. For me, my only symptom was being cold. Very cold. To the extent of needing a sweater in 30+c, in the Tropics. Fatigue was never an issue for me.

 

[AndBreathe]

Thanks Coby, I totally agree. Learning from and supporting each other has been such a powerful tool, I e taken a lot of comfort from others such as yourselves. Especially since the answers are usually in science heavy journal articles, like we aren’t stupid and I want to know more than surface level information, but it’s not quite accessible it seems?...

Dandelade, if you want to learn about thyroid disorders, or indeed more about your own thyroid related challenges, I suggest you join Health Unlocked's Thyroid UK section. It is a specialist forum for peer support for those living with thyroid conditions. When I was diagnosed they helped me work my way through the maze of information and helped me understand what might be going on for me.

I am still not at the bottom of my challenges. I'd like to understand why I need hefty levels of replacement hormones (hefty relating to my size and volume). It is likely I have some form of chronic malabsorption, meaning I'm not necessarily getting the best bang from my hormone replacement buck.

https://healthunlocked.com/thyroiduk/posts

 

[Dandelade]

Dandelade, if you want to learn about thyroid disorders, or indeed more about your own thyroid related challenges, I suggest you join Health Unlocked's Thyroid UK section. It is a specialist forum for peer support for those living with thyroid conditions. When I was diagnosed they helped me work my way through the maze of information and helped me understand what might be going on for me.

I am still not at the bottom of my challenges. I'd like to understand why I need hefty levels of replacement hormones (hefty relating to my size and volume). It is likely I have some form of chronic malabsorption, meaning I'm not necessarily getting the best bang from my hormone replacement buck.

https://healthunlocked.com/thyroiduk/posts

Thank @AndBreathe ill check it out. I hope you work out your challenges too!

 

[StaffieDaddy]

I was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism, Hasmimoto's disease, 4 years ago, at the time my blood glucose testing was all normal.

I only found out about my thyroid after 6 months of really struggling with my mental health. It got to the poing that before I would agree to try yet another different antidepressant, I insisted to my doctor that he run a full set of bloods. I got started on levothyroxine and once I was dosed right I finally started to feel like myself again.

If it wasn't for my thyroid, I wouldn't have found out now about my diabetes, as it's only from my annual bloods (well a bit longer this time due to the Covid pandemic), I'm still in limbo with my diabetes, but reading this thread I couldn't help thinking of that old saying, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

 

[Hopeful34]

I had an over active thyroid a few years ago, was on medication which was gradually reduced. Levels were normal for a year or two, then repeat performance. Have been medication free for a good number of years, and hoping to stay that way. My mum had an under active thyroid.