Disillusioned

[mark51]

Just come back from doctors, and diabetic nurse and I'm now feeling totally disillusioned with it all. In 7 weeks I've lost 12+kgs, I'm using my bg tester to understand and control my diabetes and I basically get told I'm doing it all wrong. Apparently I should eat far more carbs, I mustn't bg test and I've lost far too much weight even though I still weigh 123kgs. So what am I supposed to do? Follow medical advice or what I'm doing that make me feel good and in control? :-(

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[Indy51]

In your shoes, I'd follow what my own instincts told me to do.

 

[jack412]

you forgot to add low fat and eat lots of wheat and grain oil

 

[Mud Island Dweller]

Do what l do ignore them and in your case tell them you want someone competant to go to your dr or whoever saw you is a cretin.

You could follow their advice butyou will go downhill and end up very sick with complications.

 

[Bebo321]

Hi mark51,
Sorry you've had this experience - it's one mirrored by many others. Unfortunately your healthcare professionals even perhaps with the best intentions appear to be following fairly outdated guidelines (and with regard to advice on testing are being pretty careless)

Read through the experiences of others on this forum - take an interest in those who appear to be managing their diabetes well and learn from what they are doing. By the sounds of it you have actually been doing extraordinarily well, so please don't feel disheartened.
If you haven't already done so, have a read through the type 2 diabetes kit bag on www.teambloodglucose.com. It isn't prescriptive in its advice, but really just helps to explain things a bit.
Keep your chin up and keep up the good work.

 

[Opalshards]

The Medical profession are not always right, you are doing great.
Just go with your own instincts and whats right for you.

 

[sanguine]

Just come back from doctors, and diabetic nurse and I'm now feeling totally disillusioned with it all. In 7 weeks I've lost 12+kgs, I'm using my bg tester to understand and control my diabetes and I basically get told I'm doing it all wrong. Apparently I should eat far more carbs, I mustn't bg test and I've lost far too much weight

"I mustn't bg test". I'm sorry but who the **** do these people think they are!? . Surely even if we were to accept the eat more carbs bollix, you would STILL need to test to see what was happening on a day to day basis. It's no good just hoping it's all worked out by the time of your next HbA1c, that''s just BAD SCIENCE.

It's your body, you do what you've been doing Ian, keep a food diary and next time take your results in (maybe including some carb-induced spikes) and get them to explain how your BGs and weight are improving.

 

[Plockton]

I went to my GP the other day for my yearly check. Saw the nurse first and after having my BP checked (which seems to have gone up) and my weight checked (which also has gone up - again) - I tried to explain to her my thoughts on low carbing etc., and the information I have found on this site. She went on then at length to advise me how I really needed to include carbs at every meal - bread/potatoes/rice etc., and that those items contained 'slow release' carbs only, which would help me maintain the correct levels!!??? So - as long as I don't eat sugar/cakes/biscuits/chocolate etc. etc., which have the type of carbs which would make my levels 'spike' - everything would be fine. When I mentioned a further gain in weight - she dismissed that with the comment 'well, of course, that is a side effect of insulin' and then went on to advise that I take up some form of exercise - without actually asking whether I did any in the first place. She then gave me a printout of a 'diet sheet' drawn up by the NHS and sent me back out to the waiting room.

I then went in to see the gp - who didn't mention anything about anything (!) - said test twice daily for the next two weeks and then come back and see me. (The surgery was absolutely crammed and I was already an hour over my appointment time so I guess she was putting me off until another day

It really is confusing to say the least! She was adamant that I should go along the NHS route and very dismissive of my low carbing suggestions and now I'm doubting myself and the information on Low carbing I have found on this site. All my life I've been used to counting calories - always being prone to excess weight - so it's alien to me to be encouraged to eat meat/fat/cheese/butter etc.,with no regard to the calorific value.

 

[jack412]

you do have regard to the calorific value, it's just that most won't eat enough LCHF to worry about going over, the starving comes from carbs.
you can go the nhs route if that's what you want to do and I would say the majority of diabetics do, because they aren't given a choice. You have to work out what's best for you

 

[Bebo321]

I went to my GP the other day for my yearly check. Saw the nurse first and after having my BP checked (which seems to have gone up) and my weight checked (which also has gone up - again) - I tried to explain to her my thoughts on low carbing etc., and the information I have found on this site. She went on then at length to advise me how I really needed to include carbs at every meal - bread/potatoes/rice etc., and that those items contained 'slow release' carbs only, which would help me maintain the correct levels!!??? So - as long as I don't eat sugar/cakes/biscuits/chocolate etc. etc., which have the type of carbs which would make my levels 'spike' - everything would be fine. When I mentioned a further gain in weight - she dismissed that with the comment 'well, of course, that is a side effect of insulin' and then went on to advise that I take up some form of exercise - without actually asking whether I did any in the first place. She then gave me a printout of a 'diet sheet' drawn up by the NHS and sent me back out to the waiting room.

I then went in to see the gp - who didn't mention anything about anything (!) - said test twice daily for the next two weeks and then come back and see me. (The surgery was absolutely crammed and I was already an hour over my appointment time so I guess she was putting me off until another day

It really is confusing to say the least! She was adamant that I should go along the NHS route and very dismissive of my low carbing suggestions and now I'm doubting myself and the information on Low carbing I have found on this site. All my life I've been used to counting calories - always being prone to excess weight - so it's alien to me to be encouraged to eat meat/fat/cheese/butter etc.,with no regard to the calorific value.

Hi there,
Sounds like you're having an uphill struggle.
Jack412 is correct that you can take the NHS route, it's just that low carb has been tried and tested and found to be a successful way to help manage BGs by so many people with diabetes now, it is incredibly frustrating that it is not given more credence by many health professionals.
Easy way to observe the reality is to watch the continuous glucose monitor (CGM) trace of someone with Type 1 after they eat a slice of bread.
Makes the decision to go lower carb much easier. Couple of things to look up that may help:

https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diabetes (for the part that discusses insulin resistance and weight)
Have a read of some of Bernstein's work (just google diabetes and Bernstein and you will find plenty - mostly around type 1, but if you're using insulin it will be relevant)
Google low carb and "Volek and Phinney' - they talk about the science of low carb.

There's plenty of science to back up the low carb way. For somebody with diabetes, sugar and carbs can no longer be processed properly by the body and that's a fact. It doesn't take a genius to conclude that reducing carb intake can therefore only be a good thing.

Make sure you do what's right for you, and what you feel you can manage. Once you've satisfied yourself that lower carb is a safe way to go, there'll be no stopping you!

 

[Daibell]

It would be good for you to find a new GP and nurse but I suspect that won't be easy. Put simply, diabetes is a condition where the body can't handle carbs properly so glucose accumulates in the blood. A meter is essential and will normally show that carbs are bad news; scientific proof not NHS mythical hearsay. It sounds like you are doing exactly the right things so keep doing what you know to be right. As the weight comes down so will the blood sugar as insulin resistance fades. The bottom line, as they say, is that virtually all of us on these forums actually have diabetes, most use a meter and we understand something about it. Many NHS GPs/DNs have had totally inadequate training and some of that is based on non-science There is no scientific evidence that says diabetics should have plenty of carbs; it's post world war fashion. If you have the courage you might want to challenge your HCPs for the evidence.

 

[Plockton]

Thanks all - and thanks Bebo for the links - just watched Peter Attia's speech - a lot to take in and really thought provoking - and will look later at Bernstein etc. Need to do something, that's for sure - and low carbing sounds to me to make logical sense.!

 

[Bluetit1802]

Brilliant advice on this thread, but I must add that calories still need to be counted alongside carbs if you have a lot of weight to lose. You will never lose weight if your calories eaten are more than your calories used up in energy. Just eat enough fat and protein to make up for the deficit in not eating many carbs.

 

[mark51]

Thanks for all the support. I've only been diagnosed for approximately 8 weeks. I was admitted to hospital with a big of 39.1. Since then I've changed my diet, my exercise regime and this has helped me loose 14kgs (too much apparently). I've been using my bg meter to monitor and identify what causes spikes (like I said earlier apparently this is also wrong). I actually feel so much better, so much more energy! Yes I have low days when I miss something, but I just put it on my treat list. I've already lost 33% of the weight I need too, to reach my goal. And yes maybe later I nay ned to increase carbs to reduce the weight loss, but the negativity I recieved today totally blew me away. I'm going to carry on, listen to my friends on here, you all understand the issues as you are also sufferers. Most health staff read a book and try to tell us what they think they have understood from it.
Thank you all, I'm now feeling stronger and more determined to continue on MY route to improve My health.

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[Andy12345]

save your frustration.....eventually your docs etc will see how well you have done, imagine what they will say then lol its awesome! i used to want to cry when i left the docs, now i have to wear big boots to keep my butt on the ground, they wont accept youve done the right things, they have been brainwashed even more than the rest of us were, you are contradicting years of hard training, but what will they say when youve got the perfect weight, perfect bg and perfect cholesterol? they will say there advice worked lol but you will know, ok so now where are you? you know better about your health than the dsn, the doctor and the nhs, isnt that perfect? it is for me, im as thick as a short plank and i know more about diabetes than my diabetes nurse lol dont worry about ignoring them, itll be the best thing you ever did (all opinion of course, some hcps are very good....apparently)

your doing so well, listen to the person who cares the most about you

 

[donnellysdogs]

Thanks for all the support. I've only been diagnosed for approximately 8 weeks. I was admitted to hospital with a big of 39.1. Since then I've changed my diet, my exercise regime and this has helped me loose 14kgs (too much apparently). I've been using my bg meter to monitor and identify what causes spikes (like I said earlier apparently this is also wrong). I actually feel so much better, so much more energy! Yes I have low days when I miss something, but I just put it on my treat list. I've already lost 33% of the weight I need too, to reach my goal. And yes maybe later I nay ned to increase carbs to reduce the weight loss, but the negativity I recieved today totally blew me away. I'm going to carry on, listen to my friends on here, you all understand the issues as you are also sufferers. Most health staff read a book and try to tell us what they think they have understood from it.
Thank you all, I'm now feeling stronger and more determined to continue on MY route to improve My health.

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Good for you Mark.
I so often wish that medical staff advising on diabetes were actually diabetic.

What annoys me more is that so many diabetic nurses that I have seen in 30 years are obese or morbidly obese, so what gives them the right to talk about food and diets to patients?



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[lizdeluz]

Good for you Mark.
I so often wish that medical staff advising on diabetes were actually diabetic.

What annoys me more is that so many diabetic nurses that I have seen in 30 years are obese or morbidly obese, so what gives them the right to talk about food and diets to patients?



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My consultant is diabetic, and, yes, I think you're right, it makes a difference, in their approach to us, if they really know what it's like trying to control blood sugar.

 

[lizdeluz]

But I wouldn't wish diabetes on anyone, consultant or not!

 

[jackedison]

Just come back from doctors, and diabetic nurse and I'm now feeling totally disillusioned with it all. In 7 weeks I've lost 12+kgs, I'm using my bg tester to understand and control my diabetes and I basically get told I'm doing it all wrong. Apparently I should eat far more carbs, I mustn't bg test and I've lost far too much weight even though I still weigh 123kgs. So what am I supposed to do? Follow medical advice or what I'm doing that make me feel good and in control? :-(

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Good to know that you have lost so much weight.As being fat would increase your heart risk.I think you should reduce further and also follow a proper diet and keep a check on glucose levels that will help you control your sugar better.

 

[Mud Island Dweller]

l ignore calories lisitened to an excellent prog on r4 a scientist was explaining the test method etc was over 100yrs out of date. Modern science has shown a big difference in how foods affect us and the more mixed foods are the bigger the swing. Also things we assume small cal they retested showed double others assume high showed over half less.
Wish l could remember the programme but can not :-( l just stick to carb counting.