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DIY face masks & info on wearing masks effectively...

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by pdmjoker, May 15, 2020.

  1. Morsal

    Morsal · Member

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  2. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    Well like it or not from the 24th you are going to have to wear a mask while in a shop or be liable to a fine and it's about time to.

    The mask you wear will help protect others the masks others wear will help protect you what's to debate.
     
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  3. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    For those of you wishing to wear cloth masks (fashionistas, Whale- savers) please see the link below:
    https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577
    Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.
    Again my apparently baffling logic remains that based on facts, not feelings, there is a low rate of this seasonal virus regardless of our prior interventions, in circulation and the vast majority of the population will not be clogging up hospitals or dying with it. Thus the mandate to wear masks in shops/trains is very disproportionate but also likely to be ineffective.
    I have to assume that the government's Good Cop Bad Cop routine with Gove and Boris over the weekend concerned the R rate where R= Return to Retail i.e. we are not doing so and it doesn't sound as if any of you lot are in a hurry to do so either. Your choice not to do so.
     
  4. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    One persons fact is another persons nonsense masks are of benefit anyone who argues otherwise merely out of twisted logic merely to justify their own prejudiced point of view is talking nonsense and dangerous nonsense at that I would and do go to great lengths to avoid such people when out and about.
     
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  5. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Your link doesn't work for me.
    Your link has now started working for me :) and takes me to a study comparing the use of cloth face coverings and clinical face masks in hospital settings.
    How is this relevant to the wearing of face coverings in shops? Or other non-hospital settings?
    Totally different environments, level of social distancing, exposure to viral load, duration of exposure, and so on...

    However, the quoted conclusion that you have provided says absolutely nothing new, and is in line with what I expect everyone on this thread agrees on
    - of course it is important to conform with health and safety
    - of course it is important to keep face coverings clean, use them properly, wash them as often as necessary, and change them regularly (nothing new there)
    - of course failure to use common sense and basic hygiene may result in risk of increased infection (that is a real no brainer, isn't it?)
    - and of course health care workers should be using the medically approved masks (nothing new there, either)

    I am very interested to see that the decline in cases in England has levelled off, and may be starting to rise again. Time (and the Worldometer graphs) will tell.
    We were warned, from the very start, in the earliest UK press conferences, that different measures would be introduced at different times to control the spread. Masks and face coverings are just measure that may be used, just as social distancing is another, and contact tracing another.

    ed. for clarity and grammar
     
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    #65 Brunneria, Jul 14, 2020 at 2:59 PM
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  6. LizzieNI

    LizzieNI Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone have any recommendations for cloth face masks and glasses steaming up? I read somewhere that wearing the mask high with the glasses sitting over the top of it but I've found it doesn't take much movement i.e. talking for it to slip and steaming to start. Thanks
     
  7. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This might possibly help......
    https://www.specsavers.co.uk/covid19-care/stop-glasses-fogging-with-face-mask
     
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  8. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    wear mask under bottom edges of glasses. tape tissue inside mask to absorb moisture or wash glasses with hand soap when rinsed off and dried the soap leaves an anti misting film on the glass.
     
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  9. LizzieNI

    LizzieNI Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to both of you.
     
  10. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I thought this might be useful only in that there is very little real world trials out there and I think if we are being asked to do something we should feel that it is an effective measure.
    I feel that wearing masks for many will be an empty gesture. I have had to wear one at work when indoors in a non clinical setting and my experience, and that of my co workers not all of whom are mask sceptics, is that they are difficult to wear properly e.g. without fiddling with them or touching them etc. This isn't a clinical setting and we are being given cloth masks so we look on brand.
    I would rather people were being given advice on getting metabolically healthy and topping up their vitamin D levels.
    As to case numbers have a quick listen to Ivor Cummins aka Fat Emperor who has been looking at the data on mandatory mask wearing countries. Does Emperical Science Matter Anymore
     
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  11. In Response

    In Response · Well-Known Member

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  12. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    Masks are of benefit ask any doctor nurse or other health care worker if out of personal preference some one does not want to wear one then I hope they stay well clear of me and any one with any sense of self preservation.
     
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  13. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I feel that the time to introduce masks face coverings in the UK would have been at the beginning of the spread.
    Now? The amount of the novel coronavirus floating about in circulation is very much lower, and masks face coverings are going to be much less effective - although enclosed spaces like shops and public transport will always be a higher risk.

    It actually seems like masks face coverings have been brought in as more of a public confidence thing. Especially since the masks face coverings have been introduced a short time after we were all told we could go spend spend spend. I suspect that shop purchases are not as high as hoped.

    If it helps the economy, and builds people's confidence, then I do not see face coverings as a bad thing.

    Had an interesting conversation with my chiropractor last week. She treats her patients in a room in a gym. Shared door and entrance area, private treatment room. She has been back at work (full PPE) for 2-3 weeks now, and is finding that the masks and PPE are very important in bringing customers back. At the moment her customers fall into two groups; either people who are desperate for treatment and would walk over coals - risking COVID - to see her in order to get some relief from the pain they are in, while the second group is people who will only turn up if she explains her Covid protocols and PPE situation.

    In her opinion, she would rather stay in business with full operating theatre garb, than go out of business by skimping on the PPE including mask/facecoverings and losing the confidence of her bread and butter customers.

    Ed. for clarity
     
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    #73 Brunneria, Jul 15, 2020 at 5:18 PM
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
  14. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately there are areas of the country where coronavirus is still liable to take off again. The cardiac unit at the local hospital has been closed because its has had patients get the virus.
    The fact that aerosols can hang in the air in enclosed spaces for lengthy periods, in fact hours, is not reassuring, agreed new evidence, but better to know late than never.
    I think masks will be worn until we all get vaccinated or the grim reaper is satisfied.

    Apparently the local lidl had only one person wearing a covering this am and social distancing was almost absent...according to the guy who brings our groceries.
    D.
     
  15. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    It is an interesting question about wearing a mask e.g. shall I wear one to reassure others and so I don't get socially shamed in a shop? I really do not know because at heart I am a pragmatist. I feel it is necessary to make a point though because I fear that if we all concede to this measure then more may follow e.g. kids wearing masks in schools. I certainly cannot blame any freelancer who needs to wear the kit to keep her business going and having talked to my clients there are clearly some anxious people there.
    However if people are anxious about something \I feel that the more we mask, glove and clean the greater the anxiety will grow. Ask any therapist treating a phobic.
    I know that unlike many here I am coming from the position that mask wearing is irrational at this stage.
    I will be getting my nails done later and will doubtless comply with the masks. Very frustrated that I cannot get my brows done as this is the only part of my face that will be visible!
     
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  16. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I am very puzzled that even at peak virus times we do not seem to have an epidemic of supermarket workers coming down with CoVid? These people kept going through 8 hours shifts face to face with the great unwashed before screens and masks were handed out. Not empirical proof but I thought there might have been some anecdotes by now if it were a thing that you can pick the rona up by stretching past someone for a bag of spuds...
     
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  17. pdmjoker

    pdmjoker Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    "The aim of this study was to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers"​

    The study makes a distinction between cloth masks and medical masks, and suggests cloth masks are not adequate for healthcare workers.

    "Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%"​

    How much of a difference there is for someone just popping into a shop doesn't seem clear...
     
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  18. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    https://www.primarydoctor.org/masks-not-effect
    A more comprehensive meta analysis (query if it is peer reviewed) July 2020 may provide further elucidation.
     
  19. pdmjoker

    pdmjoker Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    The page you cite says:

    Specifically, are surgical masks effective in stopping human transmission of coronaviruses? Both experimental and control groups, masked and unmasked respectively, were found to “not shed detectable virus in respiratory droplets or aerosols.” (23)​

    and paper 23 they cite says

    We identified human coronaviruses, influenza virus and rhinovirus from both respiratory droplets and aerosols. Surgical face masks reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in both respiratory droplets and aerosols, but only respiratory droplets and not aerosols for influenza virus RNA. Our results provide mechanistic evidence that surgical facemasks could prevent transmission of human coronavirus and influenza virus infections if worn by symptomatic individuals.​

    which seems to contradict their summary...
     
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  20. pdmjoker

    pdmjoker Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I was surprised to read tip 5:

    5. Breathe downwards into the mask
    Instead of fiddling with your mask and trying to adjust it, you might find that changing your breathing helps just as well. To prevent your glasses from steaming up, try to push the air downwards when you exhale. It might take a bit of getting used to, but once you’ve got the hang of it, it’s a pretty simple solution.​

    since I was under the impression that most people's noses already pointed downwards. If they don't, then how can they wear spectacles properly? ;) Time for my medication, I think - nurse! :nurse:
     
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