DIY face masks & info on wearing masks effectively...

[Goonergal]

The full Government guide to masks, when to wear them, how to make them, list of exemptions and exemption cards is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

 

[lindisfel]

I used a mask with a valve last week but I am going to use a 'normal' mask over the top. Hence two masks to protect myself as well.
D.

Whilst looking for masks online I stumbled across this interesting bit of information on the entuk.org website. Basically in a nutshell it suggests whilst exhalation valves on a mask will make it more comfortable for the user it presents a risk to patients (in this report) due to possible Covid particles being exhaled "if" the user has infection. Not sure if these types of masks filter the air "in" but it seems they certainly don't filter the air "out".

We would recommend that clinicians should not use a FFP3 mask with exhalation valve when undertaking any close patient interaction. If your only available FFP3 mask has an exhalation valve, you should consider using a surgical mask to cover it to protect the patient as well as the extending the masks use. An unvalved FFP3 mask would be better.

Anyone have any suggestions for decent mask/visor combinations you are using for glasses wearers? So many options online like ties that go around the ears to tie ups behind the head, valved/unvalved as per above, etc etc?

I'm going to need quite a few for Autumn term and ideally reusable or fairly cheap disposable. If you were for instance to go down the FFP2 or 3 route they are really expensive, although I believe the public are advised not to buy those, even if you can find them, so the medical fraternity have enough to go around. Surprisingly there seem to be so many options online and it's not like you can go into a shop and try a few like you would do shoes!!!

 

[lindisfel]

The full Government guide to masks, when to wear them, how to make them, list if exemptions and exemption cards is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

Why cant we be like the Scots? A none ambiguous leader and almost 100% take up of mask usage in last two weeks.
D.

 

[DCUKMod]

Just a thought, if you're making masks, you could also make a washable bag for them to go into, everything then goes in the machine, and we don't have extra plastic floating around. Should be reasonably simple to sew(I'm a beginner and could manage that).

There are a million and one drawstring bags videos on youtube. At the outset, when there was a concerted drive for more medical scrubs for HCP, there were folks "converting" old curtains, bedding and all sorts to scrubs, but also drawstring bags, for exactly the purpose you suggest.

A drawstring bag is super-simple to make.

I wouldn't suggest a lingerie bag, or the reusable drawstring fruit and veg bags most supermarkets are selling as they have holes in them.

 

[DCUKMod]

DCUKMod - The closest I have ever got to sewing was admiring my mum donkeys years ago turning up my school trousers with her wonderful old metal Singer sewing machine! Wonderful looking machine but I wouldn't have a clue, not sure most blokes have!!

Maybe I should go Wild West style with a large handkerchief folded over into a triangle and couple it with a
Stetson and spurs! That would go down well with the kids at school I reckon!

l'll have another look online for the reusables. Good point about having at least three a day as I'll be there from 8 till 4. Think I read somewhere that apart from washing the things you can put them in the microwave to clean them. I might be thinking of something entirely different of course!

If you have a local Facebook page, there is almost inevitably going to be someone on there who has started creating fabric masks, and donating their proceeds to the NHS or other charity.

I know locally, there are several, from enthusiastic home sewers to a lady who runs a curtains and upholstery business, who, for obvious reasons, had a significant downturn in business, but useful skills.

If you struggle locally, I can send you a couple of links, although I will yell loud and clear, I have not used any of these folks, so can't give assurances of quality or whatever.

I detest Facebook, but I have found some interesting things, locally to me, during these odd days.

(To be doubly clear, the masks I have made have been purely for our own sue, so I would not be promoting myself.)

I haven't heard the microwaving thing, but I'd much rather just lob them in the washing machine, made for cleaning, than potentially introduce the virus to a gadget I might be consuming food from.

The virus has a fatty covering, so that's why all the handwashing with soap and water is so effective. It breaks down the outer covering of the virus, and it dies.

 

[Goonergal]

@Max68 in addition to DCUKMod’s suggestion, I have a pack of these which were recommended by someone else on here (@Bluetit1802). So far largely unused but they are well-made. https://elle.co.uk/products/protective-mask-5-pack-washable There is no noseclip if that is important.

Pretty sure I’ve seen Gap selling them too.

 

[Brunneria]

@Max68 in addition to DCUKMod’s suggestion, I have a pack of these which were recommended by someone else on here (@Bluetit1802). So far largely unused but they are well-made. https://elle.co.uk/products/protective-mask-5-pack-washable There is no noseclip if that is important.

Pretty sure I’ve seen Gap selling them too.

we got a pack of those and gave them to MIL.
I was particularly amused by the Port and Starboard red and green edges.

 

[lindisfel]

Please define ‘normal’.

My personal experience differs significantly from your description.

I am sitting here, comfortably at rest, breathing in and out through my nose.
When active, with heavier demands from muscles, or under stress, I switch to mouth breathing, since I have a diddy little ski jump nose and fairly narrow nasal passages.
When asleep I may breathe through nose or mouth, depending on position, dream state and booze quotient.
I consider all of those things ‘normal’.

Hi Brunneria
,Apparently breathing in through the nose produces NO and makes the lungs more efficient.
D.

 

[NicoleC1971]

https://teespring.com/sheep-mask-bl...cial-carl-vernon&pid=377&cid=100069&sid=front

For any mask sceptics out there.
i have gone to a shop without my mask and not been stoned or confronted. I will comply if asked by a shop worker as I don't want to make their life difficult but it will be an alternative version.
Btw thanks Diabetes.co.uk for at least permitting some discussion of these issues unlike Diabetes UK!

 

[HSSS]

https://teespring.com/sheep-mask-bl...cial-carl-vernon&pid=377&cid=100069&sid=front

For any mask sceptics out there.
i have gone to a shop without my mask and not been stoned or confronted. I will comply if asked by a shop worker as I don't want to make their life difficult but it will be an alternative version.
Btw thanks Diabetes.co.uk for at least permitting some discussion of these issues unlike Diabetes UK!

So you are deliberately choosing to flout a law (unenforceable I agree) - not a request or suggestion or a guideline - and potentially expose others to your Pre/asymptomatic covid. Do you break other laws designed to protect other people’s health and well being because you don’t much like or agree with them?

For the life of me I genuinely cannot understand why people won’t comply even when sceptical about the effectiveness, just what will it cost you? Very little in reality and it will provide a lot of reassurance at the very least to many you will be near and potentially a whole lot more real protection should you have covid . Makes me think of the anti vaxers. Obviously different if there is an actual medical reason (physical or mental) as opposed to bloody mindedness.

Hardly fair to put some poorly paid shop assistant, who’s probably scared of being punched or stabbed if they confront flouters, in the position of having to remind you to do what you already know you legally are required to do.

Even Mr Hsss, who fundamentally agrees with your stance on masks in theory, is complying if he must go into a shop. Hope I don’t bump into you in the supermarket.

Sorry this whole selfish attitude just makes me so ....

 

[Brunneria]

So you are deliberately choosing to flout a law (unenforceable I agree) - not a request or suggestion or a guideline - and potentially expose others to your Pre/asymptomatic covid. Do you break other laws designed to protect other people’s health and well being because you don’t much like or agree with them?

For the life of me I genuinely cannot understand why people won’t comply even when sceptical about the effectiveness, just what will it cost you? Very little in reality and it will provide a lot of reassurance at the very least to many you will be near and potentially a whole lot more real protection should you have covid . Makes me think of the anti vaxers. Obviously different if there is an actual medical reason (physical or mental) as opposed to bloody mindedness.

Hardly fair to put some poorly paid shop assistant, who’s probably scared of being punched or stabbed if they confront flouters, in the position of having to remind you to do what you already know you legally are required to do.

Even Mr Hsss, who fundamentally agrees with your stance on masks in theory, is complying if he must go into a shop. Hope I don’t bump into you in the supermarket.

Sorry this whole selfish attitude just makes me so ....

100% agreement.
The only thing I would add is that those poor shop assistants are likely also in fear of being spat on.
We’ve seen enough cases of police, HCPs, bus and train staff dying after being spat on by infected people, that avoiding confrontation is very understandable.

people can chunter endlessly about the actual risk of infection, but in doing so they utterly, and fundamentally miss the point.

My Mr B has one of those high risk, public facing roles, and his contempt is huge for the ‘selfish childishly rebelling minority‘ (his words, not mine), that he sees during the course of his working day. Having to spend time near them in shops, during his off duty hours... you definitely don’t want to read his opinion on that.

 

[bulkbiker]

For the life of me I genuinely cannot understand why people won’t comply

My personal view.. which will likely not be popular!

There is little to no "science" that they are effective .

The govt and govt "scientists" have been saying that mask wearing does little to protect anyone until a week or so ago as have the WHO.

The mandatory nature of the requirement rather than a strong recommendation smacks of authoritarianism.

It has polarised the public once again into pro and anti mask groups and created exactly the kind of statements that you have made above, sadly.

My own particular area has had an infection rate of 0.322% of the population over the entire period and I'm highly unlikely to be either infected or to meet anyone else who is. So who am I protecting?

Where does it end?
If the govt next decided you need to wear a burka when outside walking the dog will you still comply?

Edit to add .. the completely arbitrary nature of the 24th July being chosen.. how about 24th March .. might have been more effective.

We’ve seen enough cases of police, HCPs, bus and train staff dying after being spat on by infected people,

I think we really need to see some evidence of that .... don't you?

 

[Brunneria]

I think we really need to see some evidence of that .... don't you?

Happy to oblige. The main example is a transport worker Belly Mujinga. Her story was all over the news for weeks. I am surprised you missed it. The widespread coverage has entered the public awareness. 30? 40? news stories within a few days, flooding the public perception. The fact her attacker was never prosecuted became irrelevant. The threat is there. Why would any shop worker want to run the risk of being assaulted, let alone assaulted by someone who may pass on COVID-19, no matter how small the risk?

And I have included a few of the numerous stories of police, shop assistants, HCPs, taxi, train, bus workers, etc. who have been subject to assault, verbal or physical, being spat on, where covid was used as part of the threat. I wonder how many more we will see over masks?

https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/ne...ers-spat-coughed-bitten-coronavirus-outbreak/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...belle-dies-spat-covid19-royal-london-hospital

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ect-who-spat-at-uk-rail-worker-who-later-died

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/n...-spitting-and-coughing-on-70-officers-226176/

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/18366630.coronavirus-lecturer-jane-challenger-gillett-spat-police/

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/...ice-investigating-after-litter-warden-4267085

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52770041

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-cough-spit-police-officer-18421155
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-cough-spit-police-officer-18421155
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/truly-vile-man-spat-north-18016432

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news...sturbing-trend-sees-police-deliberately-spat/

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...er-news/thug-who-spat-police-officer-18309191

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11620...t-nurse-police-officers-claiming-coronavirus/

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/thief-spat-at-police-and-claimed-he-had-coronavirus?top

https://www.larnetimes.co.uk/news/c...olice-then-claimed-he-had-coronavirus-2887356

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/named-shamed-thugs-who-spat-18225768
Their victims include police officers, a bus driver and shop staff.

https://www.the-gazette.co.uk/news/18443140.police-hunt-yob-spat-district-nurse-johnstone/

 

[HSSS]

My personal view.. which will likely not be popular!

There is little to no "science" that they are effective .

The govt and govt "scientists" have been saying that mask wearing does little to protect anyone until a week or so ago as have the WHO.

The mandatory nature of the requirement rather than a strong recommendation smacks of authoritarianism.

It has polarised the public once again into pro and anti mask groups and created exactly the kind of statements that you have made above, sadly.

My own particular area has had an infection rate of 0.322% of the population over the entire period and I'm highly unlikely to be either infected or to meet anyone else who is. So who am I protecting?

Where does it end?
If the govt next decided you need to wear a burka when outside walking the dog will you still comply?

Edit to add .. the completely arbitrary nature of the 24th July being chosen.. how about 24th March .. might have been more effective.

there is science that says they help. Maybe not that much but few studies have been done so lack of evidence is hardly evidence of lack. The previous government advice was largely based on that and the very real fear that supplies would run out for medical staff - as indeed it did. There was also a fear on the government’s part of being too authoritarian ironically now.

I do hear your point about authoritarianism, where it might end and the divisions the law has caused. I’d add there are quite liberal countries where people are not complaining as some here and in the states are doing though. I honestly don’t have the answer. This face covering law however seems reasonable to me in the circumstances. If burkas/hazmat suits etc did (and they don’t, for me, right now) and it was law then I would. However like any law it should be questioned and justified and where necessary challenged. So if you feel it’s wrong please go ahead and challenge it.

My problem isn’t people that have a different view to me or that they challenge it appropriately. It’s people imposing their views and their risk behaviour on me without my consent against the current law and current best evidence. If they are right they are slightly inconvenienced. If I, and the law, am right they could be killing people. Same principle as drink drivers, second hand cigarette smoke etc etc.

Totally agree it should have been 24th March not July. However with a lack of supply and even the limited evidence we have now better late than never and somewhere there will always be an arbitrary line in the sand at the start of any new law.

 

[bulkbiker]

Happy to oblige. The main example is a transport worker Belly Mujinga. Her story was all over the news for weeks. I am surprised you missed it. The widespread coverage has entered the public awareness. 30? 40? news stories within a few days, flooding the public perception. The fact her attacker was never prosecuted became irrelevant. The threat is there. Why would any shop worker want to run the risk of being assaulted, let alone assaulted by someone who may pass on COVID-19, no matter how small the risk?

And I have included a few of the numerous stories of police, shop assistants, HCPs, taxi, train, bus workers, etc. who have been subject to assault, verbal or physical, being spat on, where covid was used as part of the threat. I wonder how many more we will see over masks?

https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/ne...ers-spat-coughed-bitten-coronavirus-outbreak/
No mention of anyone being infected due to being spat at.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...belle-dies-spat-covid19-royal-london-hospital


https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/named-shamed-thugs-who-spat-18225768

All of these appear to be evidence of people being spat at but there seems zero evidence of

a) the person doing the spitting being infected
b) that the death was caused by being spat at

Do you not agree?

Spitting on people is of course a disgusting thing to do under any circumstances however your specific claim was that

enough cases of police, HCPs, bus and train staff dying after being spat on by infected people

There is so far as I can see no proof of people being infected by or dying from being spat at.

 

[bulkbiker]

It’s people imposing their views and their risk behaviour on me without my consent against the current law

Don't you find that kind of ironic?

 

[Member496333]

If shop staff are in such danger why might it be that they are not required by law to mask-up? Honest question, as it doesn't make sense to me. Moreover, if it's true that masks primarily stop you from passing the virus onto others, why is it ok for potentially contagious shop staff to cough all over my food before I buy it and take it home?

 

[lindisfel]

If shop staff are in such danger why might it be that they are not required by law to mask-up? Honest question, as it doesn't make sense to me. Moreover, if it's true that masks primarily stop you from passing the virus onto others, why is it ok for potentially contagious shop staff to cough all over my food before I buy it and take it home?

You are required to obey the law or face £100 fine.
Of course you have the right to disobey the law if you wish, it may work out you finish up in clink if you refuse to pay the fine, thats if you feel it is a good cause to hang your hat on.
I just think there are better causes to be a martyr for!
D.

 

[HSSS]

Don't you find that kind of ironic?

Only a little. You being made to wear a face covering might annoy you but won’t kill you. It’s not exposing you to risk. You failing to wear a covering might kill me. Not quite the same thing.

 

[HSSS]

If shop staff are in such danger why might it be that they are not required by law to mask-up? Honest question, as it doesn't make sense to me. Moreover, if it's true that masks primarily stop you from passing the virus onto others, why is it ok for potentially contagious shop staff to cough all over my food before I buy it and take it home?

No idea. You are quite right they should wear coverings. Another problem with the government policy.

Just because we think some policies are right doesn’t mean we agree with everything they do.