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DO YOU WANT TO JOIN ME TO MAKE A CHANGE TO CURRENT GUIDELINES?

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by Debandez, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Possibly, although it’s attached specifically to point #4 with a comma, so I don’t know. Either way the criteria appears to rule out anyone not in those groups.

    Personally I’m not that animated about the supply of meters. The bit that has always rubbed me up the wrong way is discouraging testing in those who are willing to self-fund.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. Asleuk

    Asleuk Parent · Newbie

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    Type 2 costs enough already
     
  3. Asleuk

    Asleuk Parent · Newbie

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    If you follow a low carb diet why would you need to test? 90% of money spent on Diabetes is on T2’s already, without adding this on top. I’m sorry if I offend anyone, but that’s how I feel. As a mother of a 12 year old that’s had T1 for 8 years this month, and has no such option as a low carb diet to reverse her diagnosis, this is something I have always felt strongly about!
     
  4. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    My stock answer to such statements on testing is that testing provides the evidence for the patient and care provider that blood sugar levels are elevated adversely when certain key foods are consumed. This was something I put to the Desmond lady I spoke to some weeks back.
     
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  5. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    90% might be being spent on type 2 but that may have a relevance to the fact that 90% of diabetics are type 2.

    Testing (at least short term) would lower this amount spent in the long term. Well timed and well educated testing will save money. The reason it is considered a waste is because it wasn’t targeted and utilised appropriately for type 2 in general. In that situation it could indeed be viewed as wasted money for many patients.

    Testing shows which foods are acceptable and which aren’t for that individual. Many do not understand or accept the damage foods do until it’s seen in incontrovertible evidence there in front of them. (Drs and patients alike) It establishes that good diet that will prevent the expensive long term complications or more expensive medications. It does not need funding forever.
     
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  6. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    That’s pretty much how I see it. But there has to be some testing by someone to establish exactly which foods elevate the blood sugar levels adversely.
    In my case I put my faith in others on the forum who have tested.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Moderator
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    Hi,

    Just try what I've done for years.. Put your repeat script in when you need the test strips only?
    I pick mine up from the chemist virtually every two weeks when walking the dog.. ;)
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  8. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does. It costs a fortune in treatment of complications. Complications brought about by a disastrous standard of care that includes castigating those of us who wish to self monitor in order to improve our outcomes.
     
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  9. Peadair O Brionn

    Peadair O Brionn Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I’m in . If it wasn’t for testing I wouldn’t have known what to eat or how food was affecting me . Kept me straight and been in non diabetic range for 18 months . Saving the hospitals lots I would say . Everyone should get meters and test strips every month . I’m one of the lucky ones I get 50 strips a month on prescription. But I buy another 150 . Cost me £45 a month , I’m lucky I can afford it . But what about the people that can’t
     
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  10. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Asleuk,
    I'm so sorry that your child has T1.
    However I would like to make 2 points:
    1. The way that Health Care professionals deal with T1 is much better(more appropriate) than the way that they deal wioth T2.
    For example they push a totally inappropriate diet (high Carb, Low Fat), they say it is progressive and irreversible (not true since Dr David Unwin has 50% remission after 2yrs in his patients who can be persuaded to try LCHF). They tell us not to test even if we are prepared to self fund the meter and test strips. And finally they spend large amounts of money of drugs for T2 (including Insulin)
    Why do you object to spending less on T2? Because of the remission rate, Dr David Unwin's surgery spend £50,000 less per year than they did before.

    2. If it is done in consultation with the Health care Professionals, even a T1 can benefit from a Low Carb 'Way of Eating' as many in this forum have done. The advantage is that lower does of insulin are required, in turn reducing the amount of possible Insulin overshoot or undershoot. Reducing the number of Hypers and Hypos.
    So yes, Low Carb cannot cure your child of T1 - all it may (not certain) be able to do is to improve their quality of life.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Expert

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    I can get several boxes of NDSS subsidised Abbott 100 strips at a time if I want to, I have a couple of boxes spare all the time just in case we get a shortage of them again.

    I do not understand why you only get 50 strips in a box, they are all made in the same place, mine are made in Ireland (not the top bit).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Edit: Added pix to show Product in Ireland, that box of strips did not cost me any thing as I hit the safety net.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #171 Tipetoo, Nov 5, 2019 at 9:41 PM
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  12. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Listlad,
    Surely you have seen that T2's all tend to be different with different tolerances of different quantities of different Carbs.
    Why on earth would you decide that you are like any particular one of us (who test) if you yourself never test?
    In another thread somebody said that those on Low Carb had 'fanatical faith' and we replied that there is not faith (for us) involved since we can see results on our BG meters.

    It seems that they were talking about you - not us, since you have faith without testing.
     
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    #172 ianf0ster, Nov 5, 2019 at 9:46 PM
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  13. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    I did a lot of research. There is a lot of commonality between member results. That’s it really. 130grams of carbs a day gives me the flexibility to do that. Don’t get me wrong, I agree totally that testing needs to be done.

    My HbA1c results and symptom reversal give me the confirmation that I personally go by.

    Remember we are all free to choose the approach we take.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Asleuk,
    Here is a re-post of what I found that respected websites (including this one) say about Low Carb and T1 Diabetes.
    I don't claim that they are necessarily correct, or that it applies to all T1's since Low carb doesn't work for all T2's either.
    However I feel that it isn't something that should be rejected out of hand.:

    Today I have again been told that a Low(er) Carbohydrate 'Way Of Eating' isn't suitable for Type 1 diabetics.

    Why is this when DCUK, DietDoctor, Diabetes.org/uk and Endocrinology.org all say that it may be suitable for a Type 1 diabetes patient?

    It is so frustrating to be told that as a T2D and a TOFI, any opinion I have about Type 1 is effectively worthless. As though I can't research Type 1 as well as I do Type 2 just because I don't actually have Type1

    5 min worth of looking for references yielded these links from which I have each quoted a small relevant section ( note that for ease of seeing the relevance I have bolded some phrases and sentences - my bolding, not theirs).:

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325195.php
    How do carbs affect diabetes?
    A low-carb diet may be one of the most effective diabetes management strategies, especially for people who might be able to avoid medication.
    Carbs elevate blood glucose more than any other food. For people with insulin resistance, blood glucose may remain elevated for hours after eating carbs.
    For those with type 1 diabetes who do not produce enough insulin, carbs can also cause blood glucose spikes,
    so a low-carb diet may help people with both type 1 and type 2 diabetes.
    Carbs can also affect a person's health in other ways. Carb-rich foods tend to be high in calories but low in
    some important nutrients, such as protein. Eating too many of these "empty calories" can lead to weight gain.
    Research shows that people who eat carb-rich foods may also feel more hunger between meals, causing them to overeat.
    A low-carb diet may also:
    give a person more energy
    lower average blood glucose, or HbA1c levels
    reduce food cravings, especially for sugar
    lower the risk of hypoglycemia
    aid weight loss efforts
    decrease the risk of long-term diabetes complications
    lower cholesterol

    https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eating-with-diabetes/meal-plans-/low-carb
    About low-carb diets
    A low-carb diet is generally defined as below 130g of carbohydrate a day.
    This low-carb meal plan aims to help you maintain a healthy, balanced diet while reducing the amount of carbs you eat.
    Varying amounts of carbohydrate are shown each day to help you choose which works best for you. You might want to use
    it to lose weight, or maintain a healthy weight.
    If you're overweight, finding a way to lose weight can help you reduce your risk of complications.
    There are different ways of doing this, and the low-carb diet is just one option. Other options include the
    Mediterranean diet.
    And if you have Type 2 diabetes, we now know that aiming for 15kg weight loss (especially nearer to your diagnosis)
    can improve your chances of putting your Type 2 diabetes into remission.
    If you have Type 1 diabetes, it's important to know that the best way to keep your blood sugar levels steady is to
    carb count rather than following a particular diet.

    It's important to know that if you treat your diabetes with insulin or any other medication that puts you at risk of
    hypos (low blood sugar levels), following a low-carb diet may increase this risk.
    Speak to your healthcare team about this so they can help you adjust your medications to reduce your risk of hypos.
    Whether you have Type 1 or Type 2 diabetes, you might need to lose, gain or maintain your current weight but it’s
    important to make healthier food choices while you’re doing this. Research suggests that the best type of diet is
    one that you can maintain in the long term, so it's important to talk to your healthcare professional about what
    you think will work for you.


    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet/low-carb-and-type1-diabetes.html

    Low-carbohydrate diets can be very beneficial for people with type 1 diabetes
    Reducing carbohydrate intake can help to largely eliminate the spikes and crashes in sugar levels that are common on higher carb diets.
    Whilst low-carb diets may not be for everyone, those that maintain the diet tend to achieve very good blood glucose control and enjoy
    a renewed sense of confidence and well-being.
    HOW LOW-CARB DIETS IMPROVE CONTROL
    A pioneer in the popularity of low-carbohydrate diets for type 1 diabetes is engineer-turned-physician Dr. Richard K. Bernstein.
    Low-carb diets can also help children that are overweight to lose weight and reduce the risk of developing chronic health problems including type 2 diabetes and heart problems.
    Bernstein’s approach is based around his ‘law of small numbers’ which states that that smaller doses of insulin will result in smaller errors of judgment and therefore improved blood glucose control
    To illustrate his approach, if you inject 10 units of insulin to cover your lunch but make up to a 25% error, you could end up injecting up to 2.5 units too many or too few which could lead to much too high or low blood sugar levels
    By contrast an injection of 4 units of insulin with the same error would result in on over- or under-dose of up to 1 unit.
    In this case, any error won’t be as problematic or dangerous as it would be for the 10-unit dose.
    BENEFITS
    Prevents sharp spikes in blood glucose after meals
    Reduces risk of severe hypos
    Can make diabetes easier to manage
    Can help reduce HbA1c levels
    Can help reduce body weight
    May help prevent diabetes complications
    Other benefits can include
    Reduction in tiredness through the day
    Less hunger between meals
    Improvement in clarity of thought
    Can help skin complexion

    https://www.dietdoctor.com/diabetes/type-1

    Type 1 diabetes – how to control your blood sugar with fewer carbs
    By Franziska Spritzler, RDFranziska Spritzler, RD, medical review by Dr. David Cavan, MDDr. David Cavan, MD – Updated October 9, 2019 Evidence based
    Type 1 diabetes – previously called “juvenile-onset diabetes” – results when the body is no longer able to produce the hormone insulin.
    Insulin keeps blood glucose (sugar) levels under control by transferring glucose from the blood vessels into the body’s cells, where it is used as energy.
    Type 1 diabetes is treated with insulin injections.
    The more carbohydrates you eat, the more insulin will need to be injected. Thus, perhaps not surprisingly, studies and experience have shown that low-carb diets can be beneficial for people with type 1 diabetes.1

    The main benefits are preventing blood glucose spikes after meals and reducing the risk of low glucose levels (hypoglycemia).
    This makes it easier to maintain stable and near-normal blood glucose levels.
    However, there are special considerations that people with type 1 diabetes need to be aware of when adopting a low carb diet.
    So here is our guide to low-carb diets in type 1 diabetes.

    https://www.endocrinology.org/endoc...w-carb-diet-shows-promise-in-type-1-diabetes/

    Very-low-carb diet shows promise in type 1 diabetes

    In results taken from an online patient survey, Lennerz et al. identified the potential for very-low-carbohydrate diets to improve blood sugar control in type 1 diabetes.
    The survey respondents reported an average daily carbohydrate intake of 36g, or about 5% of total calories.
    (As a comparison, the American Diabetes Association recommends that about 45% of calories come from carbohydrates.)
    Respondents reported using lower-than-average doses of insulin, and reported positive measures of insulin sensitivity and cardiometabolic health, such as low triglyceride levels and high HDL cholesterol levels.
    Safety concerns have been raised about very-low-carbohydrate diets in type 1 diabetes, in particular an increased risk of hypoglycaemia.
    However, the survey respondents reported rates of hospitalisation for hypoglycaemia (1%), diabetic ketoacidosis (2%) and other diabetes complications that were lower than those generally reported for type 1 diabetes populations.
    More than 80% of survey respondents were satisfied or very satisfied with their diabetes management.
    The researchers are now calling for controlled clinical trials of this approach.
    Read the full article in Pediatrics doi:10.1542/peds.2017-3349.
     
  15. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Hi Everyone,

    This thread is about whether testing should be available to T2s on the NHS.
    Low Carb for T1s is therefore way off topic. If you wish to discuss that, please do it elsewhere.

    This is a sensitive subject, and people’s emotions run understandably high, but please keep the discussion polite, or the moderation team will step in.

    Thanks
     
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  16. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Moderator
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    It's a barking good job the T1s don't follow that method.. ;)
     
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  17. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Brunnaria,
    Personally all I would like is for self -funded testing to NOT be actively discouraged (as a first step).
    If Low Carb is off limits in this thread then there doesn't seem much point in having the thread in the first place - since then what is the testing for?
     
  18. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Expert

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    @Brunneria is referring to T1's posting adverse comments, not T2 diabetics, as this is a T2 comment thread only.
     
  19. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Hi again,

    Can I suggest that you both re-read my post?
    I made a couple of really clear statements which do not say the things you both suggest:



    I did not say that LC for testing T2s was an inappropriate subject. I said that discussing LC for T1s was off topic for this thread.

    nor did I say that this is a T2 only thread. All members are welcome to contribute to a polite discussion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  20. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Moderator
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    Hi,

    I'm the grown up son of a "D mom" & a (now deceased.) T2 dad..:)

    Testing, testing, testing after any diabetes related diagnosis helps to spot the BG trends on a daily basis.
    Where it's going right & what could be better..

    It's a long road between those A1c checks... ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
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