Does anyone think that only calories from carbs can make you fat?

Celsus said:

Ultimately, if you eat more calories than your body expends, regardless of whether these calories come from fat, protein, or carbohydrates, you will gain weight. Unused energy is converted and stored as excess body fat. There is no magic.

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Probably true.. however if your body ramps up your BMR in response to what you consume....then it's not quite such a simple "Calories In Calories Out" sum game as many state.

Celsus said:

Now with risk of getting into some hot water, I will though as a proven facts driven scientist say this:
Ultimately, if you eat more calories than your body expends, regardless of whether these calories come from fat, protein, or carbohydrates, you will gain weight. Unused energy is converted and stored as excess body fat. There is no magic.

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Less we forget...The magic lies in insulin...without which unused energy will not be stored as excess body fat...but simply waste away...

I find that I have to watch both my carb intake and my calories. Thats it really. However, I have experimented and the same amount of calories, made up of a higher percentage of carbs, put weight on me. If my same amount of calories have fewer carbs, I maintain or lose weight.

Good question.

Tannith said:

Does anyone think that it is only calories coming from carbs that make you fat? I have been getting this impression from some of the threads.

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Good question.
Nhs believe energy in, energy out and any surplus turns to fat. ......er. no. Well not for me. Its not the full story, for me.

Low carb gives me a glucose deficit so i lose weight. End of.
Calories irrespective, however...... for me heavy calorie foods with fat in them nil and void my glucose deficit and I don't lose weight.
I wouldnt like to test the heavy calorie diet for weight loss. As I've found what works for me. Low carb. Medium protein and low-medium fat. And plenty of insulin to keep my bgs between 4.5 and 6.0 ...for me.

kokhongw said:

Less we forget...The magic lies in insulin...without which unused energy will not be stored as excess body fat...but simply waste away...

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I have the opposite. As long as bgs are excellent range longterm, I lose weight....with enough insulin.

bulkbiker said:

Probably true.. however if your body ramps up your BMR in response to what you consume....then it's not quite such a simple "Calories In Calories Out" sum game as many state.

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Agree.
Ramping up bmr via energy and exercise. If no exercise on raised energy, then turns to fat. Definitely......well, for me.
Low carb gives me just enough glucose/energy for my slow metabolism ..only.

Celsus said:

Hahaha @Tannith
Ultimately, if you eat more calories than your body expends, regardless of whether these calories come from fat, protein, or carbohydrates, you will gain weight. Unused energy is converted and stored as excess body fat. There is no magic.

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But it seems that even at rest, our body uses more energy when we are not eating many carbs, the worce case seems to be long term "moderate" low fat diets that result in many people's body using less energy. The ND diet seems to advoid this by being closer to fasting then a "moderate" diet, along with only being short term.

ickihun said:

I have the opposite. As long as bgs are excellent range longterm, I lose weight....with enough insulin.

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I lost 10kg before my T2D diagnosis...but weight has remain stable over the last 2 years since diagnosis. During that 10 kg lost, my thighs hollowed out.

Hence I would be careful about using weight loss as a gauge...because of the risk of substantial loss in lean body mass. High circulating insulin is known to suppress fats burning/utilization...and may force the body to turn to protein/amino acids.

geefull said:

overeating of carbs which was the result of my insulin resistance

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Just wonder how you define overeating of carbs. The majority of non diabetic people eat quite a lot of carbs as they are usually a part of most family meals .To overeat them presumably you have to consume vast amounts of bread pasta rice potatoes and sugar stuff. I always considered I ate the normal but not excessive amount of carbs and I have never been overweight yet I still got T2

If everyone was the same, then an answer along with actual experience of how your system works to give the standard reply.
In the case of calories, the norm is that if you eat too many, you get more body fat.
But if your body is, as in diabetes, not in balance with your hormones, then calories can be ignored as the balance of fats, protein and carbohydrates are the most important part of your food intake.
Control of your glucose levels, insulin levels and your intolerance to foods is vital to future health.
Along with exercise that suits you, and the actual amount of food we eat, this is what should be recommended other than caloric values.

With my rare condition, I have to put aside all the normal foods that people have and basically live on foodstuffs that don't create insulin, don't raise blood glucose levels, that assist in my health, and keep me feeling really good.

If that means, I discount calories or counting carbs or all the usual rubbish spouted since before my diagnosis that I have been given, then that is what I have spent so much time and test strips, discovering what is right for me. Getting my control and balance right (ish), finding through my food diary, through hospital tests for how my unusual metabolic condition treats everything that goes down my throat as an experiment and having discussions with my endocrinologist, with certain members of this great community, sifted through all the information and noted the trends because of my decisions as gradually got my control and better health.
I found my balance, I don't really care if others say I shouldn't do this, that or the other, I find it out for myself and then I use my experience and I put it to good use.
I have discovered so much about how our bodies cope with food and how it affects the body if out of balance.
I am now a master of my body, I won't go back to the time before diagnosis.
No way! calories and carbs be damned!

But as usual, what works for me doesn't work for most, so find out for yourself!
By experimenting, testing, recording and eliminate those foods that make you ill.

No2D said:

Have any ideas about why people can eat LOTS of fat (500gms would be 4,500 calories for example) and where it goes?

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It may be that their body converts it into heat.

kokhongw said:

I lost 10kg before my T2D diagnosis...but weight has remain stable over the last 2 years since diagnosis. During that 10 kg lost, thighs hollowed out.

Hence I would be careful about using weight loss as a gauge...because of the risk of substantial loss in lean body mass. High circulating insulin is known to suppress fats burning/utilization...and may force the body to turn to protein/amino acids.

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Do you think a person can afford a little of their muscle density? Especially when my muscle building naturally over 40yrs of diabetes. The more muscle density the higher my bmi and insulin resistance. Liver and my muscles stored far too much glucogen. Since reducing my muscle density I've half my 300units of insulin needed to just stay under 10s on my meter.
I totally agree through reducing my protein stores.

I have yet to see a skinny, fat free bodied lchf follower.
Me neither.

I have seen very lean low fat dieters thou. I know not sustainable diet for me thou.
I will be looking to do stages to reduce my heavy weight.
whatever works but done safely and under heavy nhs support.

No2D said:

But I'm having a hard time finding anything about disposing of excess dietary fat as in your example. Have any ideas about why people can eat LOTS of fat (500gms would be 4,500 calories for example) and where it goes?

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There's an interesting section on this topic in the book "The Modern Nutritional Diseases: and how to prevent them" by Alice Ottoboni Ph.D. and Fred Ottoboni M.P.H., Ph.D.

[URL]https://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Nutritional-Diseases-Prevent-Second/dp/0915241056/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508267070&sr=8-1&keywords=modern+nutritional+diseases[/URL]
[URL='https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&text=Alice+Ottoboni+Ph.D.&search-alias=books-uk&field-author=Alice+Ottoboni+Ph.D.&sort=relevancerank']
They propose that excess energy from fat is sent around metabolic cycles which use up energy but ultimately do not create anything. This is somewhat like a car engine running without any pressure being put on the accelerator . . . petrol is used up, but the car doesn't move. If you believe that high fat foods were favoured during human evolutionary history, then this solution by evolution to keeping humans in good shape would seem to make sense.

Perhaps after another few hundred thousand years, evolution would give us something similar for excess energy from carbohydrates.

Regards
Antony

(edited to correct the author qualifications)[/URL]

Hi. First it's probably best to ignore calories completely as the body doesn't work like a food test furnace. The metabolic process for fats consumed in food is very different from the process for carbs and the fact that fat has twice the calories becomes irrelevant. Carbs are so easily absorbed and if in excess stored as fat by the liver that they need some control. So best to think carbs rather than calories. Always look at the back of any food packaging for the total carbs and in general ignore anything on the front of the pack.

On low calorie diets I go cold, pale and can hardly drag myself out of bed. I do not lose much weight.
On a low carb diet I bounce about like Tigger, take myself out for walks and do lots of housework, I am pink skinned and radiate warmth. I eat far more calories and lose weight easily, without even thinking about it.
The difference is so great that it seems that the calories from carbs not only don't make me fat, they act as a negative and allow me to eat far more real food and still lose weight.

No2D said:

@bulkbiker -- or anyone -- on the internet a lot of talk about bodyfat->triglyceride->fatty acid->energy & waste out as CO2 and water. But I'm having a hard time finding anything about disposing of excess dietary fat as in your example. Have any ideas about why people can eat LOTS of fat (500gms would be 4,500 calories for example) and where it goes?

Possible it doesn't break down in the gut and out it goes, never making it to the blood stream. People with pancreatitis can loose inordinate amounts of dietary fat so maybe the gall bladder or pancreas or gut biome are involved. Do you know of anything out there about a large fat intake directly increasing the fat in the bloodstream?

Thanks for any insight on this.

EDIT:
PS: If a daily calorie threshold for sustaining weight is established - let's say 2,000 / day for example. Then people on a LC or VLC (keeping carbs constant) could increase their fat intake by 1,000 and their weight would not increase. There must be several people on this site that have done this. On the flip side it seems that decreasing fat intake until weight starts to drop would tell you what your calorie sustaining is. Any experience with these questions anyone????

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I'm no expert on the science behind it.. but my two pennorth would be that excess fat that the body doesn;t use would either be excreted or burnt up in a raised metabolism (probably both). There was an interesting talk at Low Carb Breckenridge about brown and white fat cells from I think Ben Bikman which I recall explained it quite well..
I think that's the one although I will admit I saw it ages ago so could be wrong.

Celsus said:

Hahaha @Tannith, great observation and question that you bluntly ask there!

On this forum you have many dedicated individuals. And if you browse around you also find areas here dedicated to certain ways of managing your diabetes. The food we eat is actually part of this therapy and to some extend as important if not more important as how we e.g. take/use insulin. Some find it easier to manage their disease by going on a low carb diet. Some are vegetarians. Some focus on the proteins. Others do other stuff. Situation is, we probably all find a way by which we find it easier and more predictable to manage our disease. And please recall, diabetes is not just diabetes, we have many variants of that. And human beings are not just a standard holster walking around. We are all globally unique individuals. so respecting that, you have an unlimited number of variations around that subject.
I think also we should be gentle and even encourage individuals that have found a great way to manage their own diabetes 'the right' to share their experience with other fellow diabetics and offer their recommendations for others to try it out. There are pros and cons with all variations. Personally I am easy going. If it works for you, great - carry on!

Now with risk of getting into some hot water, I will though as a proven facts driven scientist say this:
Ultimately, if you eat more calories than your body expends, regardless of whether these calories come from fat, protein, or carbohydrates, you will gain weight. Unused energy is converted and stored as excess body fat. There is no magic.

Click to expand...

I am not wholly convinced about the 'calories in calories out' mantra. I have been a wheelchair user for over a decade, with extremely low levels of activity and definitely no excercise. Yet I was slim even on the western diet. My weight barely changed until I cut out the carbs in order to take control of my T2. Even though my activity levels have still not changed I lost a little weight, how do you account for that? I really want to understand this but the closest I have got is to think of obesity as a symptom and as we all know if you take ten people with the same malady the symptoms and reactions will differ. Until more is known about the causes of T2 I fear that I will remain in the dark.

PFT makes sense to me. We are unique and I think all of these calculators that assess 'healthy' levels have parameters that are so wide as to make them virtually useless. I have played around with three of these and actually laughed at the differing results. It reminds me of the differing clothes sizes in different shops.

Fat storage happens when insulin is used to process excess glucose in the blood, which typically happens after eating carbs. Eating fat does not raise blood sugars much. Burning body fat happens through a process called ketosis which happens when blood glucose is lower, e,g. when fasting. So eating carbs makes you fat, but eating fat doesn’t.