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Fasting and Manual Labour

Discussion in 'Fasting' started by Laconic, Oct 7, 2020.

  1. Laconic

    Laconic · Well-Known Member

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    Would like to try fasting, but do a physically demanding job so need to eat currently have two meals a day sausage bacon eggs mushrooms in the morning and a chicken and broccoli stew in the evening, I sometimes snack on nuts and cheese in between.
    Just wondering what people’s thoughts are on this and if there are others who fast and do heavy lifting in their jobs
     
  2. LaoDan

    LaoDan Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sounds tough! What’s the goal? If it’s weight, I’d try eating breakfast and lunch, and a small snack at dinner and cut the other snacks
     
  3. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    What type of fast are you considering? A shorter eating window? OMAD, or something more extended?

    It’s not directly equivalent and certainly not every day, but maybe helpful. I regularly do extended physical exercise - all day (6-8 hours) reasonably brisk walking water fasted. Also do gym weights sessions water fasted. I tend not to feel hungry at all while exercising so find it easier to eat in the evenings on those days. This has been gradually built up to - wasn’t possible when I first started exercising.

    Depending on what access you have to food at work/what time you start I’d suggest either having a larger than usual breakfast and see how long you can extend your eating window. Definitely eat enough at meals to try and avoid the need for snacks and experiment with the best timing for proper meals.

    I’ll tag @Mbaker who does pretty heavy duty exercise and I believe, some fasting.

    Are you aware of this experiment/thread? I’d have loved to have been a part of the experiment.

    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/zero-calories-5day-100miles-experiment.177033/
     
  4. Laconic

    Laconic · Well-Known Member

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    When I first started Keto I did find it difficult, I lift heavy items for a removal company, washing machines, fridges, sofas etc.
    I used to live off porridge and chicken and rice and without the carbs, I did feel weaker, but have persevered and feel adapted now, feel just as strong as I did before I was on Keto
     
  5. klynch

    klynch Type 2 · Member

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    The models that recommend fasting etc to address T2 diabetes are based on the idea that people live sedentary lifestyles and are overweight.

    What is you BMI and your current fat %?

    I would recommend consulting a properly licenced dietician via your GP these days they take a "problem-solving" to help you with your diet to ensure you have the energy you need, while ensuring you have the nutrition to meet your energy goals.

    For example when I ran a marathon. The specialist advice for that activity was after 45 mins of running to ingest 28g of carb every 30 minutes to ensure that I had the energy to complete. the run. People talk about hitting the wall at 20 miles this is because they've run for so long that they have depleted their energy stores and the body can not provide any more energy.

    If you've been ingesting those carbs though you won't run out, but you need 45mins for the carb to go from your mouth to your muscles.

    Hence specialist dietician advice is recommended
     
    #5 klynch, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:19 PM
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    That's a rather bold statement...
    Fasted exercise is used by many to increase the benefits of exercise alone.
    Personally I'd avoid a "properly licensed dietician"as at least 80% will likely come out with the "eat less, move more" mantra that has failed millions of the past 60 years.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. klynch

    klynch Type 2 · Member

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    The person who posted is not exercising. He's in a job where one day he has strong physical demands and the next less so. If you have a problem in the workplace that's much more dangerous than when you have a problem in the controlled environment of a gym,

    It's your choice but advice from a relevant qualified professional should always be taken seriously. My use of a dietician was very good. She looked at my food from all perspectives. Her advice to me was to eat less. She said move more was not relevant to me. She gave me advice that works. She was aware the official guidance was wrong, her issue was that there was no categorical proven plan but her insights and follow up reviews made a big difference for me.

    So We'll have to agree to disagree - the original poster was saying that he has a very active job. We don't know his BMI and %fat. and we don't know his goals. So we should be careful about what we are assuming. A qualified dietician asks all the relevant questions and can explain the reasoning behind their advice. You also have the ability to hold them to account if their advice is wrong.
     
  8. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Eat less of what though?.. that is the key.
     
  9. klynch

    klynch Type 2 · Member

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  10. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Starvation and fasting are 2 different things (although you might not think so from a cursory glance).
    The ND is starvation. Restricting your eating window but "feasting" in that eating window is quite different.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    I used to work in a manual workplace often lifting similar weight as in white goods and furniture. The amount of equipment I would load and unload would be several times a week, the heaviest would be a waist high skip on wheels filled with soiled often muddy, sweaty and wet, towels and a skip with medical and training equipment.

    If you are Keto adapted, then I used to eat a carb free small meal such as boiled eggs or yoghurt (full fat Greek) and a few berries before work. This should be alright or similar.
    I used to fast when I was travelling around the country, because I didn't want to eat, it would be a long day usually and eating too much is not what I need.

    If you are okay then topping up on very low carb food like cheese or meat should be ok during the day with a small meal at lunch.
    This is just a guide and we all have different low carb foods.

    If you are in control, the need for carbs is moot. You need the protein and fats.

    Just be wary of how you react to the dietary advice.

    Keep safe
     
  12. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    I have dealt with dieticians, doctors, dsns and specialist endocrinologist who have always been reluctant for me to be in ketosis, only one specialist and one dietician who advised me about this site.
    Every other medical professionals have advised me I need to eat complex carbs or the equivalent because we need a certain amount of carbs derived glucose to keep clear brain function. We need the fibre from grains and other starchy vegetables.
    We are told to eat low fat, do not eat saturated fats. Count your calories and eat three square meals a day and have good healthy cereal for breakfast or porridge because it is a super f food. And so on!
    I followed this dietary advice for over a decade and it was killing me.
    I am carb intolerant, so are many T2s. It is very difficult to lose good weight if you are eating too many carbs. Portion size and how much food you actually need.
    For every carb there is an alternative.
    The best thing I ever did was go into ketosis. It has been a revelation, my health until recently has been very good for a man of my age and condition.

    The last thing I will advise is a professional in medicine has been taught by those who follow the dictates of the policy of advice which the NHS is based. The general practitioners are few and far between that understand diabetes, metabolism issues and rare cases of hypoglycaemia. Few understand that the endocrine system is so individual that the treatment should be tailored to you. How meds are used and the pitfalls of bad dietary advice, how T2 diabetes can be controlled with and by diabetics who have reversed their health.
    Exercise is important but not as much as food.
    There is a lot of long distance athletes in many sports that are Keto adapted.
    There are many in sports that use ketosis in the off season to lose weight and keep in shape.

    Keep safe
     
  13. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I would say the first thing to do is to ensure you are fat adapted even on a low carb or ketogenic, this makes either time restricted feeding (shorter fasting less than a day), or fasting easier. It is not clear what your "why" is, which is a massive part of the equation, and at what point you are in your journey (sugar or fat burner predominantly at the moment). The relevance of the back story is that loading too many stressors at once may not put you in a good place. Lifting and fasting and maybe a dietary change are all stressors.

    If it is fat loss you are after, eating less as another contributor has posted is one method, I could not do this as I like the feeling of fullness and not having to either count calories or show restraint at eating time.

    Two meals a day is a good compromise and starting point, but looks like not alot of food, unless its enough for you. Your foods look alright, especially if you are satisfied, but I would either drop the snacks or incorporate them into the meals; this will make tweaking meal composition easier should your goals not be being met. Something at the back of my mind says that I have read that to get the substantive benefit of exercise it has to be distinct from your everyday work, but if you were say delivering bear kegs, maybe nothing else would be required - again what are you trying to achieve.

    If you are optimising then a diary with what, when, whatever you are measuring and how you felt can assist.
     
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  14. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Laconic. Are you talking about no-food fasting whilst working at a job heavy lifting?

    I would experiment with no-food fasting in non-working environments/days myself (if you haven't already?) - to really get a feel of how you personally respond to it, strength and energy wise.

    I do believe everyone has rhythms and responses and time periods that feel different to eating, and to not eating - the key is in knowing yours. And having it fit in with your life in as safe and as comfortable way as possible, is my feelings on the subject.

    I was able to no-food fast in an incredibly sedentary, extremely dumb job. (Some years ago now, thank goodness.) But I couldn't do so now, in any of the jobs I have on the go currently. Due to the energy needed brain-wise, and needing to be alert. I keep my no-food fasting to non-working days. But everyone is different.

    I do think that the idea of food as fuel is a good one. Give the no-food fasting a go in your leisure time? And take it from there? Imho.
     
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