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Fats and Insulin Resistance

Discussion in 'Low-carb Diet Forum' started by Sean_Raymond, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    With so many pages surely you can provide one or two studies to make your case? Just saying go buy a book isn’t helpful on a format such as this. I personally wouldn’t buy anything by this Dr as I’ve seen enough interviews to know he is wrong.
     
  2. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    The discussion is not about nutritional ketosis but the idea that insulin makes you fat. In the first study it was conducted in a metabolic ward and insulin levels were reduced by 57% in the low carb group and we see no increased fat loss. If insulin makes you fat/lowering insulin causes fat loss we should have seen something yet we didn’t.
     
  3. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    I do agree with the last paragraph completely. And the results people have with low carb and carnivore etc whilst improving many risk factors means I think these diets, if well planned, are very useful approaches to weight loss/improving blood glucose control. This makes me at odd law with many of my peers. It is just the explanation for the mechanism that is an issue as I do not believe it is correct.
     
  4. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    To be honest then who cares?

    If it works I'd rather advocate it without knowing precisely why it works (although I don't believe I'm in that situation) than not advocate it and let people stay sick.
     
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  5. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    It’s important to understand the cause of any pathology.
     
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  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    After 4 weeks I'm not surprised. Ketogenic adaptation and especially the process of becoming a true fat burner can take up to 2 or 3 months and that's when fat starts to disappear. The initial loss is water weight and little to do with insulin that comes later.

    Still wondering what kind of HCP you are who is willing to dismiss an associate professor at a university out of hand.

    https://bikmanlab.byu.edu/LabMembers/PrincipalInvestigator.aspx
     
  7. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    why? for academics maybe. for those of us with improved health its certainly of less importance.
    I'd far rather be healthy personally.

    This is the disagreement I have with many researchers who seem to think that "winning the argument" is more beneficial than making people better.
     
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  8. zand

    zand Type 2 · Master

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    Exactly. I don't really care why a fat fast where I consume more calories than usual, but most of them from fat helps me to lose weight. I just know that it does. I don't care why reducing calories no longer works for me. I just know that it doesn't.
     
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  9. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    I remember a similar discussion with this op a couple of years ago. It was unproductive then, so I will bow out of this rehash.

    @Sean_Raymond you never did share, even then, what sort of HCP you are or your credentials.
     
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  10. zand

    zand Type 2 · Master

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    Ah, just found it, no surprise there, back then he was a dietician.
    Edit: so he has been qualified for about 6-7 years.
     
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    #50 zand, Jan 10, 2021 at 2:37 PM
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
  11. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
    Staff Member

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    A number of posts have been deleted for derailing the thread and and making unnecessary comments about another member. If you disagree with a member, please reply politely and constructively on the thread, or take it to PM if the discussion would derail the thread.

    Any further such posts will be deleted and may incur additional sanctions.

    Thanks.
     
  12. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My experience is that on a low carb higher fat, higher protein (so an overall calorie increase) way of eating I lost weight after ( and I mean after not simultaneously) my Blood Glucose started dropping. I'm aware that some of this weight loss was water - but here I am with a BMI of 22 compared with 26 and an HbA1C of 37 versus 53.
    I know I'm not the only one this happened with. I would match our personal experience against your purely theoretical knowledge any time!
     
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  13. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    All, just as a reminder, there is a formal process for any member claiming HCP status on the forum, which involves verification by DCUK Head Office.

    That process has been followed in this case.

    All verified HCPs posting on the forum do so in a personal capacity.



    Edited to insert missing word.
     
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    #53 Goonergal, Jan 10, 2021 at 6:53 PM
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
  14. Bildad

    Bildad Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I would echo @ianf0ster. After following a low carb higher fat higher protein way of eating I lost 5 stone in weight and 8 inches off my waist which I doubt could all have been all water.
    I have absolutely no idea of the mechanism as to how that happened (school science was a long time ago and I am not sure that any part of this was covered then) but what I am certain about is that it happened to me.
    There are numerous others on here who can say the same thing.
    I also know that many HCP's are very sceptical of it even when presented with the living proof during a consultation as many on here can attest to.
    I am off all diabetes meds, my HbA1c is down to the low 30's from 98 I have gone from 15+migraine days a month to 0 in 12 months so however it works all I know and care about is that it does work and is sustainable over the years I have left in this life.
     
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  15. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately some colleagues, especially older ones, do see low carbohydrate diets as scary. partly due to them apparently going against prevailing dogma (high fat, low carbs/fibre etc) and the fact little training or guidance is given on them. I cannot say what current students are learning.

    A low carbohydrate certainly can help - the posters on here are a testament to that. Nothing I have said challenges this so I'll repeat that I do not understand why some are so hostile here. Reading about the success you have had is just fantastic and I am so pleased for you.

    I have pointed out that the reasons for weight gain/weight loss (i.e insulin/carbs) does not stack up with the evidence and not one person has provided even 1 study to show reduction of insulin causes weight loss independent of calories.

    The point may seem mute because if the diets work then they work. However, it is important, certainly for people who work clinically such as myself to understand the cause of a pathology and why something works or doesn't. Without establishing this then erroneous ideas can become planted as fact with the wrong things blamed. I am very happy to be shown that Insulin really does do what the Jason Fungs of the world claim as I am only interested in how, why and of course, what works so I can help.
     
  16. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    It was mentioned previously however I am not pulling rank on my qualifications, I have not brought them up or questioned anyone elses credentials so I do not see the relevance of it especially as I know the response.
     
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  17. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    I repeat that the discussion is not about keto diets but whether reducing insulin makes you fat.

    I am not arguing against the Dr's qualification but much of what he says about insulin.
     
  18. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    I am only interested in helping make people better. You are attributing things to me that are not true. Such as 'winning' an argument. That is a mischaracterisation of the dialogue we are having. I asked you for evidence to prove what you are saying and you didn't do it. Which is fine but I am happy to see anything that better informs me no matter if it means what I thought I knew I find I didn't The people giving everyone replies to me 'winner' tags seem to be the ones you should direct that comment at.
     
  19. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    My experience with hundreds of people are not theoretical neither are my own personal dietary experiments.
     
  20. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    You have made statements such as that concerning a low carb diet also being low calorie, when for many of us the reverse is true. Yes it is impossible - but it is our personal experience, backed up by our weighing scales, both kitchen and bathroom, and the maths of it all.
     
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