food Yes or No

Unfortunately there are at least two conflicting sets of advice concerning the right diet for Type 2 diabetes:

--The "balanced diet" which includes all the major food groups, including carbohydrates. In the UK this is also called the "Eatwell" plate and is advocated by the NHS. So for instance, certain carbohydrates including wholewheat bread would be included in the diet.

--The "low carbohydrate" diet which is not officially advocated by the NHS, or health authorities here in the USA where I live. In this diet, any conventional breads (including whole wheat) would either be excluded or only eaten in very small quantities, and other major carbs such as potatos, rice, pasta, beer, fruits, milk, and certain vegetables, would be limited or eliminated. Note that this goes far beyond what we normally call "sugars" as "carbohydrates" includes a large spectrum of foods and drinks.

In my opinion, and the opinion of quite a few people on this forum, the "Eatwell" option (while healthy for non-diabetics) is unlikely to be sufficient to control Type 2 diabetes. I was already eating a version of the "Eatwell" plate for the past three decades and it did not prevent me from being diagnosed with T2 a year ago.

I was able to "reverse" my T2 (i.e. bring down my blood glucose to non-diabetic levels) solely with a low-carb diet. This "low-carb" option is not for everyone. In particular, those taking certain kinds of diabetes drugs should do it only with medical advice. It works only if you stick to it for the long term, i.e., for the rest of your life. It is a fairly extreme diet, although once you get used to it, you discover that there are many, many low-carb foods so there is plenty of variety.

Here are some useful links:

Explaining the HbA1c blood test: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/what-is-hba1c.html

Explaining the various low-carb options: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet/low-carb-diabetes-diet.html

Getting food information and recipes: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb

Edited to add: The confusion that you are experiencing, concerning diet is, unfortunately, typical and I remember it well from when I was first diagnosed. One of the books I bought back then even had the title "So what can I eat now?" (and was full of what turned out to be dubious advice).

old sparky said:

I am newly diagnosed with type 2 and getting very confused as to what I can and not have to eat. Whole meal bread is a NO NO but according to other Diabetes web sites (NHS) it is OK
Tinned corned beef is OK but again conflicting web sites say its a NO NO, this is causing a lot of rows in my house.
I have printed off all the things that I supposedly can have, but this conflicts with the NHS and other web sites.
Please help as I am about to go mad.

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Hi Old Sparky I am in the same boat as you newly diagnosed last December very confused about food as no advice given I came to this web site and found that the people here favour a low carb high fat diet I'm trying this diet I'm not sure what it is doing to my BG levels as I do not test them at present I have lost some weight though (which was needed lol) I'm sure someone will be along to help you with this diet if that is the way you want to go. NHS recommends eating carbs with every meal wishing you all the best

old sparky said:

I am newly diagnosed with type 2 and getting very confused as to what I can and not have to eat. Whole meal bread is a NO NO but according to other Diabetes web sites (NHS) it is OK
Tinned corned beef is OK but again conflicting web sites say its a NO NO, this is causing a lot of rows in my house.
I have printed off all the things that I supposedly can have, but this conflicts with the NHS and other web sites.
Please help as I am about to go mad.

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Yes, it is very confusing. However, the NHS does not generally recommend low carb. It recommends the "Eatwell Plate", which is not much use for T2 diabetics not on insulin or strong drugs because it is very carb heavy. It recommends wholemeal because of the fibre content but ignores the fact it is mostly high in carbs. We can get our fibre from many other sources.

All you need to do is convince your family that as ALL carbohydrate converts to glucose once in the system and this applies to white and brown equally. Wholemeal takes longer to digest than non-wholemeal but nonetheless it still digests. As for corned beef, just look on the nutrition label at the Total Carbohydrate amount and decide for yourself. It is low carb, but is also high in salt. (as with other highly processed foods) The decision is yours!

You can show them exactly what a slice of wholemeal bread does to you by using a meter to test before and 2 hours after eating it, and show them the results.

Basically, bread, rice, potatoes, pasta, breakfast cereals, anything made with flour, some other root vegetables, and most fruits will raise your levels and are generally thought of as the major carbs, but it doesn't mean they have to be completely off your menu. A meter will guide you and show you if you can mange smaller portions of any of these major carbs, or if they really do need to be eliminated. We all have different tolerance levels.

The Diet Doctor website is the best one for ideas when you are just starting out, but at the end of the day it is your meter that will guide you, especially as regards portion sizes of the major carbs.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/foods#foodlist

There's a buch of different diets (and dare I say, dogma's) out there, and it does get overwhelming...! The NHS, like its equivalent here in the Netherlands where I hail from, say to stick with carbs... But there have been numerous studies now that prove going low carb or even zero carb will help manage diabetes. After all, all carbs get turned into sugars once they're in our digestive system. Even the carbs from potatoes, bread, pasta, rice etc.. I was diagnosed little over a year ago, and as absolutely everyone in my healthcare team was on holiday, I hit the books and google. By the time they got back I was already on a diet. I was put on medication, which I could drop a few months later. (If you start a diet, do so with medical assistance. Low carbing combined with medication can cause hypo's.) Mind you, I'm still diabetic; if I eat a huge chocolate chip cookie my bloodsugars will skyrocket. But my numbers are in the non-diabetic range now, reducing the risk of complications, and I don't need meds. What worked for me? I got a meter and tested. So I knew what foods did to my bloodsugar (before a meal and 2 hours afterwards). I started a low carb/high fat diet, which was a bit of a trial and error at first, but these days the guesstimates in restaurants are usually pretty good, and I know exactly how many carbs I have when at home. Because of my wonky thyroid I can't go as low as I'd like, but I average 75 grams of carbs a day, spread out over 3 meals and 3 snacks with 3 hour intervals. If you, unlike me, can tolerate milk, it becomes a whole lot easier to go low, as cheeses and such are wonderfully filling as well as low carb. And don't be put off too much by the high fat bit of the diet; there are many healthy fats out there. Olive, avocado, in nuts and fish... Usually if it doesn't turn solid when it cools, it won't stick to your arteries. Oh, and the first few weeks, should you start low carbing, you might not feel especially fit... It takes a little while for your body to adjust, which can cause fatigue and headaches, just like with any habit kicked. It passes though, no worries. Like I said, diets aplenty, from the Mediterranean to the Nordic, just find what works for you, and take your time to find one and get the hang of it... It's not an overnight thing. But I can't stress enough the importance of self-testing. Knowlege really is power. I hope this helps. Good luck!

One way to look at it is like this, the NHS mantra on diet hasn't changed much in the last 20-30 years but the rates of obesity and Type 2 Diabetes has soared in that time. Obviously, summat is wrong, right?

Lowering carbs is not an "extreme" option. Lowering your carb intake will aid your health and well being as well as lessening the risks of complications fiurther down the line.

A carb is a carb no matter what colour it is and it is carbs that do the damage.

old sparky said:

I am newly diagnosed with type 2 and getting very confused as to what I can and not have to eat. Whole meal bread is a NO NO but according to other Diabetes web sites (NHS) it is OK
Tinned corned beef is OK but again conflicting web sites say its a NO NO, this is causing a lot of rows in my house.
I have printed off all the things that I supposedly can have, but this conflicts with the NHS and other web sites.
Please help as I am about to go mad.

Click to expand...

The only way to know how foods affect you is to get yourself a meter and test strips, then use it to test your blood sugar immediately before eating a food /meal ana again 2 hours later - you are looking to see rises of less than 2.5- 3mmol as a starting point, working to achieve 2mmol as the maximum raise as you get better overall control
Everyone will react differently as a function of age, stage and type of diabetes, individual physiology etc and whilst everyone of us on the site can tell you what works for us there is variation in that and therefore how useful the info is beyond giving general pointers. Most with T2 will agree reducing carbs is essential but beyond that there is are wide differences and disagreements as to what that means in practice
http://spirit-healthcare.co.uk/product/tee2-blood-glucose-meter/
https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/codefree-blood-glucose-monitoring-system-mmoll-or-mgdl/

Get a glucose meter to find which foods spike your blood glucose.

In general, cut out all high carb foods such as breakfast cereals, bread, potatoes, rice and pasta. Also stop fruit juice and fruit such as bananas and grapes. To see what food is low carb take a look at www.dietdoctor.com

If you eat low carb diet then most type 2 people will get their blood glucose down to normal (non diabetic) levels within about 6 months, or 3 months if you also do intermittent fasting. See the success stories section of the forum for some examples. My HbA1C dropped from 99 to 44 in 6 months after eating low carb.

If you eat a lot of high carb food such as bread and potatoes then your blood glucose levels will stay high and you risk complications such as neuropathy and blindness. You will know if you are doing the right thing as your glucose meter will show better figures.

old sparky said:

I am newly diagnosed with type 2 and getting very confused as to what I can and not have to eat. Whole meal bread is a NO NO but according to other Diabetes web sites (NHS) it is OK
Tinned corned beef is OK but again conflicting web sites say its a NO NO, this is causing a lot of rows in my house.
I have printed off all the things that I supposedly can have, but this conflicts with the NHS and other web sites.
Please help as I am about to go mad.

Click to expand...

Hi
The NHS claim that Type 2 diabetes is a chronic progressive disease which , if you follow their dietary advice, it is.

Check out the success stories in the low carb diet area of the forum

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/low-carb-success-stories.3763/

to see what can be achieved by cutting out carbs of whatever colour.

I agree that the NHS advice about the eating of carbs at every meal is useless to me as a T2 diabetic. I found the only way to get Glucose levels down to normal and stay there is no carbs at breakfast, no more the 25g for lunch and the same for tea. With a few extra carbs for milk in coffee etc i reckon for me 60 to 70g per day is fine as confirmed by my meter readings. Even going to about 50g in a meal of beans and toast is a no no. I also try for low gi carbs not quick acting ones. Some exercise after every meal might help also.

Tesco do a high protein mini loaf.
Depending on how you react to it,I'm lucky enough to say 2 slices don't raise my bg levels but you'll have to test with your meter.
Corn beef is quite low carb,try it.

Guzzler said:

One way to look at it is like this, the NHS mantra on diet hasn't changed much in the last 20-30 years but the rates of obesity and Type 2 Diabetes has soared in that time. Obviously, summat is wrong, right?

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Except the little fact that nobody follows the Eatweel plate or try to at least follow the guidelines or even understand them.
In the USA, where obesity is skyrocketed, the calorie intake in the '90 was increased in respect of the '70s.
The fat intake remained the same put refined carbohydrates compsumption increased.

For instance if you come to visit Turin ang go in Piazza Castello, you''ll find a McDonalds, the place was where the record shop 'Maschio' was. http://smarch.to.cnr.it/islandora/object/smimage:506/datastream/JPG/smimage:506.jpg First fast food opened in Turin in 1984.

Other problem is that the refined carbs can do more damage than naturally occuring carbs.

Lowering carbs is not an "extreme" option. Lowering your carb intake will aid your health and well being as well as lessening the risks of complications fiurther down the line.

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That is what most dietary instruction are saying. If you try to count the carbs and go under 40% intake you'll find that it will be hard, you'll start to read the labels and so on.

One phrase that sprang up on the Desmond course I was on was that "if it's brown and lumpy then it's ok for you" so wholemeal bread should be ok.

That’s why I’m glad I didn’t bother going to my DESMOND course

buffyiscool said:

One phrase that sprang up on the Desmond course I was on was that "if it's brown and lumpy then it's ok for you" so wholemeal bread should be ok.

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But a whole heap of us have found that it spikes just as much as white bread.. so best avoided.. have you tested the two to see if there is any difference?

bulkbiker said:

But a whole heap of us have found that it spikes just as much as white bread.. so best avoided.. have you tested the two to see if there is any difference?

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Not personally. Just recalling what I was told on course. I usually eat brown bread and haven't really noticed any difference. Saying that, I'm going through rather a tough patch just now. Multiple lots of surgery and hospital stays for infections which push up my already high BMs, am also on a plan for correcting my insulin dosage so really difficult to say what is affecting my sugars and what's not.

britishpub said:

That’s why I’m glad I didn’t bother going to my DESMOND course

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I actually found the first part quite interesting. Couldn't do second part as was in hospital. They offered me a second date for second part of course and guess what!, I was in hospital again.

Five weeks on Metformin and a statin I was close to suicidal, but a year of low carb foods and losing weight with normal blood glucose readings for at least half that time and all is well again.
It is the high percentage of carbs foods which affect me most - small servings don't work - a huge salad with 10 or 15 gm of carbs for brunch and I am happy all day, a small dense carb snack and I get dismal mid afternoon as my BG gets very low and I want to sleep. A no carb first meal does the same thing though - probably for different reasons.