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Hospitalrefused diabetic meds

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Sarah42

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Hello, I was recently admitted to hospital after a fall in which I dislocated my hip. Although I had my own blood testing meter with me the hospital insisted on using their own meter results on my notes. The problem with this was the only tested me in a morning before breakfast when my BS would be naturally low (having not eaten in my sleep!). The reading was always 5 or less. They then refused to give me any metphormin saying that they did not consider me to be diabetic -as if I would lie about something like that!- besides it's in my gp notes that I am. I am due to go into the same hospital again shortly for an operation my question is what to do? as obviously when I eat my BS goes up and I need my diabetic meds. Please help me Thank you
 
A fasting level below 5.5 would not normally be diagnosed as a diabetic of any kind. Above 5.5 and you would be considered pre-diabetic and over 7 a diabetic.

Your hospital have taken your pre breakfast readings as fasting tests and obviously have doubts. It would be interesting to hear from you what tests were done to diagnose you in the first place. Something odd is going on here perhaps.
 
We regularly have fasting levels below 5.5. Eat a meal then they go up in the 20s. If you are worried, take your meds with the prescription or pop into the doctors for a note. Quite angry they would dispute this with you, you have reason to complain to the Trust's PALS office. Hope the op goes OK.


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I have fasting levels in the 5's because I have my meds and I low carb, goodness knows what they would be if I didn't take them.
 
Hi Sarah, you dont say what dose of Metformin you are taking, the reason I ask is if you are on the max dose of 1000mg twice a day it can help drop your bg levels by up to 2 mmol/L so your fasting level of 5 could be 7 without the drug....

It is quite right that a fasting level of 5 could be considered non diabetic but it is also true that diabetes does not go away, if you diabetic you are diabetic and thats that and it is fair to assume that it is the Metformin that is helping to keep you so well controlled, if your fasting level was 3 mmol/L then I would say they had every right to remove your medication it but it wasnt....

Try speaking to your GP or diabetes nurse prior to your next hospital visit or failing that ask to speak with a Specialist Diabetes Nurse (SDN) at the hospital as most nurses and doctors for that matter are not terribly well trained in diabetes, there should be one there or on call.
 
Hi. In my opinion it is not up to the hospital to override any treatment your GP has prescribed without good reason; that is irresponsible and warrants a formal complaint anyway. Do you have a recent HBa1C result that shows you are diabetic i.e. above 6.5'ish%? If so get a GP letter with that result attached. Obviously your Metformin may be keeping you within range so a GP letter itself may be sufficient or follow Sid's advice. Good luck.
 
Sid Bonkers said:
It is quite right that a fasting level of 5 could be considered non diabetic but it is also true that diabetes does not go away, if you diabetic you are diabetic and thats that and it is fair to assume that it is the Metformin that is helping to keep you so well controlled,
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I agree with every word but am still puzzled. The OP says that the hospital staff refused to give them metformin so it was not that causing the low fasting results.

I have no doubt that the OP knows their own diagnosis best but I am interested in the test that resulted in that diagnosis.
 
Squire Fulwood said:
Sid Bonkers said:
It is quite right that a fasting level of 5 could be considered non diabetic but it is also true that diabetes does not go away, if you diabetic you are diabetic and thats that and it is fair to assume that it is the Metformin that is helping to keep you so well controlled,
Click to expand...

I agree with every word but am still puzzled. The OP says that the hospital staff refused to give them metformin so it was not that causing the low fasting results.

I have no doubt that the OP knows their own diagnosis best but I am interested in the test that resulted in that diagnosis.
Click to expand...

Surely the op would have taken their meds the day before?
 
My Wife was admitted to hospital before Xmas The ambulance crew tookk all her medication with her ,2 days later when visiting her she told me that she had not had an insulin injection since the day before. I went and asked the nurse on duty why this had happened and was told they had mislaid her Novomix pen .They then asked me to drive 16 miles home to get another one as the hospital pharmacy did not have any in stock This was a major Surrey hospital and I felt this was a disgusting situation. I wonder what would have happened if I had not visited that day.
 
Make a complaint ! Doubt they will admit any form of liability but may prevent this ever happening again. Sorry to hear ! Good luck !


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When I was in for day surgery 12 months ago I was told not to take Metformin that day. I didn't take my BP meds that morning either - not that it is very high without them!

It shouldn't do you any harm to go a day or two without Metformin, but have a word with your doctor about it, get his/her advice, and get a letter. You could always stash your tabs in your handbag, which you'll keep in your locker, so you can be sneaky. But do check, particularly if you're having an op. - they need to know everything about you for your own good, and there are often reasons for not taking some things if you're having a general anaesthetic.

Having said all that, my hospital accepted my word about being Type 2 without a blink. It meant I was first on the list that day, as they like to give us plenty of time to stabilise before the let us escape :shock:

I wonder why yours thought a "non-diabetic", in their opinion, would want to claim to be a diabetic?

I have a theory that many nurses (and doctors, come to that) get little training in Type 2, and base their treatment of all diabetics on Type 1. The fact that the nurse thought your fasting reading was too low for you to be diabetic suggests that she doesn't know a well-controlled Type 2 can always be within non-diabetic levels.

You'll have to prepare for hospital food, if you're low-carbing. My nurse accepted low-carb as a "special" diet without a blink. I was happy to eat a wholemeal egg sandwich after I came round from the anaesthetic, to keep things stable, and the coffee was wonderful! But I was going home that day. if your hospital isn't as enlightened as ours, you'll probably need daily food parcels!

Talk it all over with your GP - and good luck! Let us know how you go on.

Viv 8)
 
Something odd is going on here perhaps.
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No. Ideally, diabetes is asymptomatic when treated. If you stop medication, symptoms will return.

The OP says that the hospital staff refused to give them metformin so it was not that causing the low fasting results
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That's not how cause and effect works: The hospital found normal fasting BG, and refuse dot give Metformin as a result.
Regardless, do you know how long Metformin takes to take full effect, and how long it takes to go back to baseline after treatment is stopped?

In any case, the hospital should have heeded the doctor's letter; second-guessing the diagnosis based on a fasting test alone is both unnecessary (Metformin does not cause hypos) and stupid (fasting tests are great for diagnosing diabetes but bad at excluding it).
 
This disgusts me. I have normal fasting bs of less than 5.5 - sometimes even in the late 4's and it is because of my low GI/ low cab diet + exercise. (I am one of those lucky ones who the GP's have forgotten about and I still get strips on prescription!!) When I go abroad where my children live and don't do my normal exercise but still stick to my diet it goes up to 6.3ish and if I am ill we are talking about 8-10 and there nothing I can do about that until the virus goes away. So once a diabetic always a diabetic rings true with me. Hospitals should listen to their patients. Some of us are able to manage good control but we are still diabetics.
 
i went into hospital just after xmas, as a day patient
to have test on the heart, the staff were excellent, they were quite knowlegable regarding type 2 diabetics they asked regarding reading would i like to use my meter instead of theirs, and no problems with me taking medication, maybe i was lucky that worcester royal hospital understands diabetic patients
 
reference to my last post, been diabetic for 4 years
on two types of insuling & metorphine, my reading ranges from 7- 16 thats on a good day, i have a very complexed list of illnesses
 
a lot of hospitals have you see a diabetic nurse befor addimshen to hospital for surgery some even see you wile you are there.
bull all hospitals have your medical recolds or can get hold of them and your gp notes/meds
 
This is not new - As Type 1 for over 50 years I have been in for a minor operation where I was told that the evening meal would be delivered in the next 15 minutes followed by no meal 1.5 hours later & buying a bar of chocolate from the kiosk in the entrance to fix a hypo. I then collected my belongings and walked to a local chip shop where I enjoyed cod and chips with a can of coke which brought me back to a comforfable position. I then phoined a freind to come and collect me and asked them to tell the hospital that due to the lack of action I would not be having the treatment at this hospital. 15 minutes later my freind arrived to pick me up and then a police car! I was asked if I needed and help - told them that I had everything covered - They handed me a phone with a consultant on the line who asked what had happened I told him bluntly and he informed me that he would ask questions and correct the situation so would I return for the op. My reply was short and had the policemen creased up with laughter. 7 months later I recieved a letter of appology but by then I was not really interested.

So the moral of the tale is - be prepared to insist and be persistent to get an explanation that you are happy with. Do not be frightened to be awkard if that is your only choice. It is your life which could be at risk not theirs!

The hospital staff do try but will not always appreciate the significance of your requests /questions so ask for the diabetes expert.
 
Interesting thread, however normally a person who is a diabetic has what is called a liver dump overnight and the BS goes up before b/f. I would suggest that whilst you may have a slow metabolism and that you need help on either meds or diet you have not yet, and do note the yet, developed full diabetes. You possibly can cope on a low carb diet yet have blasts that cause higher than normal levels.
I have been on insulin as I cannot cope with metformin (locking muscles, sticky fingers and shoulder, vision loss to name a few (Glucophage, and stagid.) for 12 years and even have problems with insulin, (funny pains and sensations on Novamix, Novarapid, Lilleys equivalents, actarapid etc.) I can with sensitive playing with foods etc cope with no meds for about 3 days, and in the case of an op stop all meds at the last one 12 hours before the op, viz the last jab if taken with a meal or the last pill before the last meal.
I had a HEAVY discussion with the hospital here but after 1 that they did their way and it took 3 days to get sensible B/S's, I now do it my way and its OK after the operation. So frankly with your levels I would not get too paranoid.
However, do speak to your diabetic clinic, do check yourself BEFORE each meal. If without meds your BS is about or below 6 then your problem possibly could be controlled just on diet. Stop wheat bread (REALLY BAD), potatoes, and cereals that are made of wheat. Eat the rest au volant try for example Oatibix or porridge. If you must do a fry up using OLIVE OIL of veggies (tomms, peppers, egg, and ONE slice of not cheap but proper bacon (EG not that which exudes salty water and shrinks to half, you know the cheap Danish stuff) every so often.
Bonne chance avec the operation etc. Oh one point as hospital food is often done on the cheap take in your Oatibix, bread from oats etc.
 
Hospitals always will insist on using their own testing equipment as they check it for accuracy each morning.

As for BP meds prior to an operation this too is normal as they can cause LOW BP readings post op.

I'm type 1 and was refused insulin when given food post op as "you had some this morning and your levels are normal"...

I phoned my endo team in the same hospital and it was remedied immediately...however your diagnosis of diabetes MUST be stored on hospital records for future reference..
 
Hi, i have had the opposite, i was admitted to hospital beginning of February with what was eventually diagnosed as a NSTEMI (heart attack) and was tested regularly with the hospital bg meters, the nurses and sometimes student nurses were handling the test strips with bare hands and actually touching the contact ends, BOTH ENDS, and rarely washing their hands before handling them, i was getting bg results ranging from as low as 7.5 and as high as 20mmol! I was being pumped intraveinously with insulin, anything between 1-4 units per hour, after day 3 i requested to do my own testing, with their machine, which i WAS allowed to, although 1 nurse asked why i wanted to do it myself, so i explained that they were doing it incorrectly, handling the test strips with their bare hands, and not washing their hands prior to doing it, she said to me in a very sarcastic manor I WILL GET YOU A UNIFORM IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO MY JOB BETTER THAN ME! after i started doing my own testing, my bg were steady around 5-9! Imst also add i WAS BEING given my ,metformin, gliclazide, aspirin, as well as the insulin, and the other medication regarding my heart problem, betablockers, and statins! Since i have been home, the highest bg has been 12 mmol, and that was fasting, after 9 hours sleep
 
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