How long does it take for beta cells to regenerate

[Jessielouiseb]

so I read in several articles that beta cells can regenerate - how long would this take.

I also read that our beta aren’t actually destroyed but they gradually wake up and recover when the blood sugars are getting lower

 

[Caeseji]

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-05/uoe-rri051519.php

Something I posted up a little while back, beta cells can just change in function and be reverted through restoration of a normal environment. I think it does depend on how long you have been diabetic and how long you have kept up the normal conditions. Plus there is the issue of the insulin resistance, if not addressed then having beta cells pumping out insulin at a high rate will just exacerbate the issue that caused them to go dormant in the first place. I’ve seen fasting as well help with beta cell regeneration in another paper so honestly I think it’s achievable but to answer the question?

Depends on a number of factors not limited to how you got diabetes, how long you’ve had it and what you’ve done to address it. Hope that helps!

 

[Bluetit1802]

Do you know if your beta cells are in need of regeneration?

 

[ert]

They certainly have had some regeneration of beta cells in mice. Humans aren't the same as mice so further studies need to be done to see if this also can be possible in humans. The University of Exeter is at the forefront of this research.

https://www.nhs.uk/news/diabetes/fasting-diet-may-help-regenerate-a-diabetic-pancreas/


The gradual recovery documented in type 2 patients has to do with improvements in insulin resistance.

 

[NicoleC1971]

As I understand it, beta cells in type 2s become dysfunctional after 12-15 years of a eating a diet that is too high in carbs for that individual's body to handle. The accumulation of visceral fat around the pancreas impedes the beta cell function and the increasing insulin resistance requires too much work by those beta cells.
The revised thinking comes from trials like Virta and Direct where patients eating a very low carb diet or low cal (and by definition low carb) have been able to reverse their diabetes in many, but not all, cases.
Bariatric surgery leads to 'comfortable starvation' (also low carb/cal) and a high proportion of those type 2s come off all meds before they have lost their obesity.
In Direct the duration of the diabetes correlated with the time to reverse the disease.
What I'm unsure of is whether beta cell function recovered or whether it is just that the patient is eating less carbs and therefore can manage on the reduced quantity of insulin being produced?

 

[Resurgam]

But you are a type two - unless your pancreas is failing due to long term over production of insulin, your beta cells are fine - it is your resistance to the insulin you need to alter.

 

[ert]

Do you know if your beta cells are in need of regeneration?

HOMA formula calculates islet cell function. My specialist uses them to see if I've deteriorated. I've been sitting at 30% for two years. If I get worse, I'll go straight onto insulin, to preserve what few I have. Here are said formula:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16134594

Practically, how did my specialist know to use these? My random blood tests at the GP's surgery were high 20's. On a glucose tolerance test, my blood sugars went over 30 and stayed there all day. My BMI was 22.

 

[Member496333]

This is assuming that beta cells need regeneration at all in the case of resistant diabetes (too much muslin) leading to later deficiency. Some of the newest thinking points to a pancreas clogged with fat as the cause of insulin deficiency in those with resistant diabetes, which can recover when the fat is cleared.

 

[Jessielouiseb]

Do you know if your beta cells are in need of regeneration?

How would you know?

 

[NicoleC1971]

HOMA formula calculates islet cell function. My specialist uses them to see if I've deteriorated. I've been sitting at 30% for two years. If I get worse, I'll go straight onto insulin, to preserve what few I have. Here are said formula:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16134594

Practically, how did my specialist know to use these? My random blood tests at the GP's surgery were high 20's. On a glucose tolerance test, my blood sugars went over 30 and stayed there all day. My BMI was 22.

Have you come across Dr Bernstein's ideas on preserving remaining beta cell function? That isn't a recommendation btw as I have no beta cell function remaining and don't know of any RCTs that might compare humans rather than mice.

 

[Jessielouiseb]

So I’m likle

But you are a type two - unless your pancreas is failing due to long term over production of insulin, your beta cells are fine - it is your resistance to the insulin you need to alter.

So I’m likely to have all my beta cells but I’m just insulin resistant?
My blood sugars are in normal range for the last 6 weeks since being diagnosed in March.

 

[Daibell]

Hi. You need to ask for a C-peptide test. This will show your beta cell's insulin production level. T2s will typically have a high result as the beta cells will be fine but insulin resistance prevents that insulin being used. T1s will have a low result due to failing beta cells. It appears this test could usefully be used more frequently by health professionals but due to cost or ignorance they may guess. I don't know anything about beta cells recovering but knowing the start point helps.

 

[ert]

Have you come across Dr Bernstein's ideas on preserving remaining beta cell function? That isn't a recommendation btw as I have no beta cell function remaining and don't know of any RCTs that might compare humans rather than mice.

I found Bernstein on day one. You're right, of course. He's right. Insulin preserves beta cell function that high sugars destroy. On day one, my consultant has to follow NICE guidelines and wrote a prescription for 16 units twice a day of long-acting insulin, which I suggested was too high, due to my low carbohydrate Dr Bernstein diet. His recommendation was to eat doughnuts, something that was never part of my diet and never would be. I'd rather start small, like gestational diabetes patients who seem to have 1, 1.5, 2 unit needles, but I need to be under a consultant who is happy to try this. That first day, it was just by chance, that the diabetes nurse couldn't see me until the next day and I was sent home when my blood sugars had fallen to 12, after they made me walk around the hospital corridors, with just a glucometer. I decided to go to the gym and ran for 1.5 hours, finding that my blood sugars dropped below 6. I've been manually controlling them since, rather than the insulin I would have had on the first day.

 

[Resurgam]

I am pretty sure that my insulin production and my reaction to it is normal - normal for me - which is eat carbs and woosh - my weight goes up. It has been the same all my adult life until I was pushed to do a really high carb low fat diet, where I put on weight and was eventually diagnosed with type two diabetes, just to add to my difficulties.
Now, after two and 1/2 years of low carb I feel a lot better.
After one year of low carbing I ate two Christmas dinners on consecutive days and saw - I think it was 5.6mmol/l two hours afterwards on both occasions, which was when I decided I had it beaten.

 

[Caprock94]

Does timing factor in? I was diagnosed less than a year ago. Never been diabetic before. I have quickly gotten my levels back into normal or very close to normal ranges.

 

[Bluetit1802]

So I’m likle


So I’m likely to have all my beta cells but I’m just insulin resistant?
My blood sugars are in normal range for the last 6 weeks since being diagnosed in March.

What are your blood sugars? Fasting, before and after meals?

If you have normalised your blood sugar levels without the aid of medication, it is unlikely you have beta cell damage. If you had, your BS would not be normal. You would be struggling to control them. Beta cell damage is a T1 issue, and a few T2s that can't control blood sugars without strong medications.

 

[Brunneria]

When I first arrived on this forum, people used to regularly state that ‘by the time a type 2 diabetic is diagnosed, they have lost approx 50% of their beta cells’.
Studies like this one in 2003 backed that idea up neatly:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4008010/
It created an image of dying beta cells and an inevitable decline into failing insulin production, escalating medication, and eventual reliance on injected insulin.

Then along came the Newcastle Diet
And suddenly everyone says that the beta cells in T2s aren’t dead. They are just smothered in fat. Defattify your liver, and your beta cells will spring back into action. Providing they weren’t fattified to the point of death, of course.
Suddenly it was all about visceral fat, TOFIs and low calorie starvation diets.

Then along came Jason Fung.
This time, we (T2s) are all insulin resistant. We pump out masses and masses of insulin (even with fatty livers at the same time). And our bodies are so awash with insulin that we don’t take any notice of it anymore. Fung has even developed a New Paradigm of Insulin Resistance, to explain the situation. Suddenly it was all about Fasting and lowering insulin resistance.

Forgive my cynicism.

The reality is that no two T2s have exactly the same condition, and that each of those 3 situations may apply to them.
Heck, they may even apply to them all at once.

Personally, I think that buying into only one of those theories is tunnel vision.
And trying to apply sweeping generalisations (no matter how beautifully simple they may seem) is short sighted.
So, since I don’t want to live in a short sighted tunnel, I prefer not to make any assumptions about anyone’s beta cell numbers, capacity or function without clear test results - from a lab - to inform that assumption.

I’m also waiting, with bated breath, for the next Great Theory.
Although I am certain when it appears, it will only apply to some of us.
Maybe it will be about the regeneratability of beta cells, or transmogrifying mouse delta cells... who knows?

 

[Jessielouiseb]

What are your blood sugars? Fasting, before and after meals?

If you have normalised your blood sugar levels without the aid of medication, it is unlikely you have beta cell damage. If you had, your BS would not be normal. You would be struggling to control them. Beta cell damage is a T1 issue, and a few T2s that can't control blood sugars without strong medications.

Oh I see...fasting is between 4 and 5.3mmol and after meals it’s no more than 7.5 and is usually back to normal after 2-2.5 hrs

 

[JAT1]

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-05/uoe-rri051519.php

Something I posted up a little while back, beta cells can just change in function and be reverted through restoration of a normal environment. I think it does depend on how long you have been diabetic and how long you have kept up the normal conditions. Plus there is the issue of the insulin resistance, if not addressed then having beta cells pumping out insulin at a high rate will just exacerbate the issue that caused them to go dormant in the first place. I’ve seen fasting as well help with beta cell regeneration in another paper so honestly I think it’s achievable but to answer the question?

Depends on a number of factors not limited to how you got diabetes, how long you’ve had it and what you’ve done to address it. Hope that helps!

Thanks so much for the link. It made my day! There's the possibility for type 1s too!

 

[Caprock94]

When I first arrived on this forum, people used to regularly state that ‘by the time a type 2 diabetic is diagnosed, they have lost approx 50% of their beta cells’.
Studies like this one in 2003 backed that idea up neatly:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4008010/
It created an image of dying beta cells and an inevitable decline into failing insulin production, escalating medication, and eventual reliance on injected insulin.

Then along came the Newcastle Diet
And suddenly everyone says that the beta cells in T2s aren’t dead. They are just smothered in fat. Defattify your liver, and your beta cells will spring back into action. Providing they weren’t fattified to the point of death, of course.
Suddenly it was all about visceral fat, TOFIs and low calorie starvation diets.

Then along came Jason Fung.
This time, we (T2s) are all insulin resistant. We pump out masses and masses of insulin (even with fatty livers at the same time). And our bodies are so awash with insulin that we don’t take any notice of it anymore. Fung has even developed a New Paradigm of Insulin Resistance, to explain the situation. Suddenly it was all about Fasting and lowering insulin resistance.

Forgive my cynicism.

The reality is that no two T2s have exactly the same condition, and that each of those 3 situations may apply to them.
Heck, they may even apply to them all at once.

Personally, I think that buying into only one of those theories is tunnel vision.
And trying to apply sweeping generalisations (no matter how beautifully simple they may seem) is short sighted.
So, since I don’t want to live in a short sighted tunnel, I prefer not to make any assumptions about anyone’s beta cell numbers, capacity or function without clear test results - from a lab - to inform that assumption.

I’m also waiting, with bated breath, for the next Great Theory.
Although I am certain when it appears, it will only apply to some of us.
Maybe it will be about the regeneratability of beta cells, or transmogrifying mouse delta cells... who knows?

Yeah, my doctor threw out the "50%-80% of beta cell function in pancreas is lost by the time you are diabetic. You'll need to take low dose of meds now, and expect to increase over the years. Sounds like this may not be true, and that the beta cells can regenerate once the fat is gone if I understand right. I know I had fatty liver. Just got bloodwork done last week, and my liver enzymes have returned to normal. Wonder if pancreas takes similar path as liver?