I think I may be killing my Dad.......

wiflib

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,966
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I was going to post this in 'ask the experts' but decided on here instead. I have also posted this on the low-carb forum for maximum coverage so my apologies if you are there and here...


Since diagnosis, my family have only seen me a few times and my incredible shrinking frame and my ‘weird’ eating habits have not gone un-noticed. They don’t know I have diabetes, they don’t need to. It’s often a topic of conversation with no negativity coming my way. They think my knowledge of diabetes is related to my life as a Midwife.
However, my dear old Dad who has had uncontrolled T2 for well over 20 years has declared today that he is going to try this low-carb thing for one month. This from the man who has HbA1c’s in the teens regularly and feels hypo at 10-12. He has no idea how to carb-count nor how many units he needs to use per grams of carb as he has diligently followed the ‘advice’ of his GP and nurse to increase or decrease his doses according to his HbA1c’s and any hypos. He has exactly the same amounts of insulin every day with no regard to what or when he eats. He has never been taught to carb count.
I’m terrified. He is not stupid but he is old and diabetes is slowly rotting him away. I always thought it was his sleep apnoea that kept him awake at night and had him falling asleep mid-conversation but it’s not, it’s the need to get up several times in the night to drink and pee. He has a CPAP machine which has made no difference to his sleep patterns.
This ability to sleep anywhere and everywhere results in his inability to remember if, when, where, how and why he’s tested/injected (probably got something to do with being 86 too).

He’s in Chichester, I’m in Leicester. I can’t get down there to oversee what he does or help him do it. I have told him today he can’t possibly do it unless he knows how much carb he is eating and how many units he need to cover it. I have offered the advice over and over again but he simply forgets of doesn’t really understand because of the bloody brainwashing of his (many) HCP’s.
What I need is an incredibly simple guide to carb counting. Something aimed at a pre-teen perhaps? Also a really simple anatomy and physiology of pancreatic function.

I’d also love to brainstorm with you ANYTHING that could help him do it without the inevitable unconscious-on-the-floor-for-hours-hypo scenario which will happen, I’m sure. I’ve warned him about returning neuropathy pain etc.

Does anyone have anything about gaining control after so long with abnormal levels in advanced age?

One of the main reasons he wants to do this is his love of food, good food. In a conversation recently, I said that he must be very hungry all the time, considering how much insulin he must have coursing through his veins and he cried. He admitted to being hungry for over 20 years. He ‘controlled’ his diabetes by diet alone in the early years, with very small, measured portions of healthy carbs. The hunger he ignored. He had to do it on active service in Italy and Africa in WW2 so he has the will power to do it.

I’m so frightened for him. This is such a drastic step to take and I’m sure he doesn’t understand how potentially dangerous it could be. He told me he had a ‘discussion’ with his DN today. All she could say was that he had to be careful not to loose any more weight and that she wouldn’t advise it. No bloody support whatsoever.

Thanks for reading, I’m hoping to be able to give him the info he needs, he will be getting my copy of a carb counter tomorrow.

What would you want your relative to know?
 

cugila

Master
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People who are touchy.......feign indignation at the slightest thing. Hypocrites, bullies and cowards.
Wiflib.

This site, the Leeds Teaching Hospital, is aimed at children and young adults so may be useful in explaining carb counting in a simple way. Lots of useful information:
http://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/sites/diabete ... ingRef.php

From the same site, again aimed at teenagers is this explanation of the Pancreas and how it functions:
http://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/sites/diabete ... ncreas.php

One book that I have found useful for simple explanations to older people and young adults alike is,
'Diabetes for Dummies' (3rd Edition) by Alan Rubin.MD. I have the American Version which is more up to date than the present UK issue. It costs around £15 and is usually available from all good bookshops and places like Amazon online. It treats most things simply and is an invaluable resource.

Then of course there is the excellent Newbies Guide to Low Carbing by Fergus from this site. Here is the link:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7215

One thing that I simply don't understand is your reluctance to tell anybody, especially your father, about your Diabetes ? Just a thought, but if your father knew that you were controlling your own Diabetes with a low carb method, maybe he would be more prepared to listen to you as you are speaking from experience....? Something I think he would understand even if he is 86 yrs old.

He really needs to be able to test regularly as there is the danger of going hypoglycaemic if he gets it all wrong. As a T2 that shouldn't be catastrophic but may not be very pleasant, he should 'liver dump' and get back to a more normal level. So long as he understands that he should be fine. He needs to know the treatment of a hypo, fast acting carbs, such as Lucozade, Gluco Tabs etc then a small 'carby' snack to stabilise the levels. Make sure he understands that clearly....no Mars Bar's until after the 'quick fix !'

I wish you luck with your task, not an easy one by any means ! I hope that the links I have posted will be of some use to you.
 

phoenix

Expert
Messages
5,671
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Counting the carbs (however many you/he decides to eat) is only half the problem, you need to take into account the type of insulin he is taking. I think the best advice is to tell him that he should eat consitent amounts, get the insulin correct and then cut down adjusting the insulin accordingly, not overnight!
If he's running high all the time at the moment, then perhaps you can sit down with him, work out what he's eating at the moment and then plan a slight reduction . See how that works and go from there.
If hes on a mix twice a day then he definitely should eat regular and consistent amounts of carbs (whatever that amount may be) at the 'right' times for it to work well. This leaflet gives some advice on adjustment for people on twice daily mixes(check to see if its applicable)
http://taysidedn.dundee.ac.uk/Docum...-Adjustment-for-Twice-Daily-Mixed-Insulin.pdf
Most people on here that refer to adjusting carbs and insulin use the basal bolus approach in a very flexible way, this needs a lot of testing to get the ratios of insulin to carbs and the basal insulin correct but is not necessarily the easiest approach. When I discussed why they don't teach this method to all new insulin users, my own doc felt that many can't manage the calculations or have the motivation to make it work.
There is an intermediate approach to basal bolus, using an insulin scale. As in the mixed insulin regime, the person eats a similar amount of carbs at each meal (ie 30 grams every breakfast, 50 at lunch etc) The insulin is titrated to cover this specific amount and only adjusted up or down if the results are too high or low the previous day (or if the pre prandial level is too high/low) To work properly this again needs a well adjusted basal and testing... you can't get away from it.
An MDI leaflet aimed at parents and children
.http://www.bcchildrens.ca/NR/rdonlyres/5AF5E6DC-6ED6-4650-876F-98F7F0E38921/40524/basalbolus.pdf
edited for spelling
 

wiflib

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,966
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Thanks for the links all. They are proving to be very useful.

I've just had a long chat with him on the phone.
He takes 12units of Mixtard with each meal. I have a feeling that this gives even less flexibility than a basal/bolus regime. I have again and again reminded him to test frequently and have suggested he has a few days trial with his normal diet first. I've warned him about false hypos and real ones.
One of the reasons he's doing it is that his dietician has 'given in'. She didn't actually offer any advice, just told him there was nothing she could do so is leaving him to it.

Got a linky anyone, so I can report her

Despite our conversations over the last year or so, he is still unaware that it is possible to adjust insulin doses depending on food intake and that sugar isn't the only thing that he should cut down on. He thought the caraway seed cake he made with splenda had very few carbs in.
Because he runs high all the time, I have suggested that he keeps the same dosage whilst slowly lowering his carb intake and tests, tests, tests.

wiflib