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Is Michael Mosley changing his tune yet again?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Oldvatr, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Just read an article on Bing, which I believe is dated 6/9/20 and appears to be in the Mirror paper about his Fast 800 diet to remove belly fat. In the article he describes it as being simply reducing sugar and ultra refined starches, and choosing Low GI carbs instead (purely for their fibre it seems). No target or limit declared. Also introduce a 12 hr fast period each day with zero calories, and reduce alcohol to a 3:2 regime. Finally start doing HIIT daily.

    So as I said in another thread, he is not a proponent for Low Carb diet in the sense that we normally see on this site. It seems to be standard Eatwell with fasting and HIIT added.

    I cannot provide links to Bing articles as they hide the URL details.

    Edit to add: Think this is what they published
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/health/doctor-explains-3-ways-rid-22618316
     
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    #1 Oldvatr, Sep 6, 2020 at 5:08 PM
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  2. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    He works for the BBC!
    So he tows the line on the big issues.
    There is a popular consensus that the powers that be at the beeb have moved to following the government's line!


    So for a normal levels non diabetic, that sounds about right.
     
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  3. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Does this mean that his 800 Fast Diet is probably not suitable for diabetics? He is marketing it as being so. He is also marketing a meal replacement ultra low calorie diet like the Newcastle Diet was. He is chopping and changing his advice to suit his book publisher it seems. Or his pocket. Am I being cynical? You Betcha. So next time I see someone asking if he is a Low Carb supporter, I know what not to say.
     
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  4. Islandboy

    Islandboy · Newbie

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    I share your cynicism, he appears to be very influential because as he says " Trust me I am a Doctor" but I have always wondered how much money he makes out of his book sales? Every 6 months he seems to come out with another book and another approach. As he purports to be following the latest science I wonder why he is pushing low calorie diets which as far as I am able to establish often fails.
     
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  5. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I think he is remaining commercial in the best possible sense. It is worth taking a look at "Lose a Stone in 21 Days on Channel 4 recently 5th, 12th and 19th August at 21:00. He combined Keto with low calorie (I think 800 to 1000). It was the most I have heard "ketotosis" or similar on mainstream TV - this for me is a good as it gets. I'd say 7 out of 10 under the circumstances. Good results were achieved, a lady went from pre-diabetes to low 30's A1c.
     
  6. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    From what I can see from his book reviews he has based it on the Newcastle Diet, and uses Extante meal replacement sachets (3 per day) at an introductory discounted cost of £51. Certainly for week 1, but it seems that for the TV show he did allow a LC diet based on protein and veg as an alternative, but still 800 kcal VLCD. Note that this is very low fat so muscle loss during ketosis is a probability.

    Week 2 the diet changed to 5:2 where 5 days was the 800 kcal meals, then 2 days of a low carb low calorie low fat Mediterranean style diet. This second week introduced Resistance Training and aerobic exercises to replace the lost muscle.

    Week 3 was using the Mediterranean diet from stage 2 and introduced some support issues, but did not seem to change the regime from Stage 2. Apparently this Mediterranean diet and exercise schedule is intended to be the maintenance phase and is the sustainability bit.

    So it does not seem to be LCHF as we know it, and I think this reliance on low calorie low carb with low fat diet is doomed to failure except as a pure crash diet. I cannot do resistance training as was prescribed for a start.

    I cannot view the actual program on my 'pooter it seems, But I wonder if the programe intro made it clear that the diet is not suitable for a whole class of people eg diabetic on medication, insulin users, people with commodities. People with history of eating disorders, thin people with BMI less than 30. These are all in the small print on the CH4 website for the program but I wonder if it was made plain to people watching on SKY etc since a lot of the criticism I saw in the press was that it does not.

    Here is a review of the program by a weight loss organization
    (beware it does have a self interest sell at the end)
    https://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/diet/reviews/lose-a-stone-21-days-channel-4-michael-mosley.htm

    Finally, the TV show only had a very small band of victims and so they had the incentive of getting it right for TV behind them along with personal intervention from the crew. As a diabetic, I have my bgl meter behind me, but Joe Public is on their own, But it sells books, so who cares?
     
  7. LaoDan

    LaoDan Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Low carb, low fat sounds like a protein sparing modified fast. While not sustainable, I would think that would have pretty good results for a obese person getting started, slowly increasing fats as body fat is used up.
     
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  8. Geordie_P

    Geordie_P Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to Mosely, back in 2016 I was diagnosed T2, and because I'd watched a few of his programmes at some point, I knew about low-carb and starch being a problem alongside sugar- I'd say it was largely thanks to him that I knew the basics of how to handle the condition. My dad is also diabetic, but lives off a diet of potatoes, baked beans on toast and apples (NHS approved!), so I certainly didn't get much help from him.
     
  9. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    I see he has a new series out on TV "The Diagnosis Detectives" where he has got 12 doctors together to try and diagnose patients who have so far defied diagnosis. May be an interesting watch.

    As for his motivation I would suspect self interest plays a part but that is not necessarily a bad thing as long as he promotes stuff that helps and does no harm.
     
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  10. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    The reason why I started this thread is because there are mentions of keto that is making the news in association with his new Fast 800 diet, and people are starting to think Mosley has now adopted a Low Carb diet plan. It does not seem to be quite there yet and is still a CICO based diet like his original 800 Blood Sugar Diet. He is starting to incorporate the LC message into his plans, which is encouraging, but is using HIIT and exercise to compensate for muscle loss instead of adjusting fat and electrolytes intake as happens with LCHF.

    If we consider that for diabetics, the majority of T2D tend to be senior citizens with other health issues that come with that territory, then HIIT and exercise are not such a readily adopted option especially as a long term strategy. Also elderly folk have less protection against muscle loss due to scavenging, and also absorb their nutrients inefficiently. So a CICO type diet is probably not a good idea as a long term fix, and should only be considered as a short term reset.

    I can accept his new diet as being comparable to a WW or Slimfast type of approach for weight loss, but not as a fix for solving diabetes.

    As an aside, I myself am using a Mediterranean low carb approach for my conditions (Pioppi Diet) and it is a concept that I find sustainable, but I have increased my fat and salt intake. I think that is an important difference. I am not calorie counting, nor limiting in any way. I so not do exercise to any significant degree. I am neither losing nor gaining weight.

    So if Mosley manages to define his maintenance plan a bit better then maybe he will have a better safer product to market. This same criticism can also be applied to the new NHS obesity plan which is also based on Newcastle shakes and CICO. It is also a problem that Newcastle also suffered in the follow on phase.n They are all Low Fat.
     
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  11. learning2me

    learning2me Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Not been on here for a long time, but came back for advice.
    Trying to lose weight and lower my HbA1c.
    After watching the MM programme, I bought the 8 Week Blood Sugar Diet book and have been following the recipes. Blood sugar has improved, though erratic, but my IBS symptoms are chronic and I am unable to leave the house.
    Does anyone else manage IBS and Type 2 with diet?
    I am due to see a Dietician on 25th but in the meantime I'm at a loss as to what to eat.
    Please can anyone advise?
     
  12. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    In my book an 800 calorie diet is not a true diet. The diet is what comes next!

    Really, after a shakes diet we need to find the least painful option.

    Those of us with R.H. only have one option!
    To reduce the carbs enough to stop riding the blood glucose roller coaster!

    But there wouldn't be enough money or a suitable orthodoxy in treating R.H. for Mr Moseley's needs.
    D.
     
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  13. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Trust me I'm a Doctor (Part 2)? His 21 day diet is getting a lot of stick in the press with the heart and cancer people and the eating disorder groups, and other 'nutritionista'. Newcastle Diet got away with it because their shakes were just on the limit for keto, so they used keto without having to declare it Mosley is using 600kcal shakes with higher protein so hits the keto button.

    I have safety concerns about using a fasting regime in connection to a VLCD diet especially at such a low intake level where it comes from a book or TV presentation in the general public arena without the supervision the 5 volunteers received. Very different doing it to camera than doing it under lockdown conditions.

    Mosley is technically a Doctor and can legitimately call himself as such, But his title is academic only, and he is a journalist and has not followed any practical application in a proper medical establishment. Whilst shining a TV spotlight onto medical issues is entertaining, I find this guru worship somewhat worrisome and not covered by any proper oversight that a physician would be covered by. He is after all claiming to provide solutions to what are medical issues, without being held to account except by public acclaim. When it comes to his Fast 800 Plan being touted for Diabetes, cancer and alzheimers patients, then we should take caution.
     
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  14. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Hi learning...
    I am no expert of this subject but perhaps a combination of the Fodmap diet and Low carb may help?
    D.
     
  15. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

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    I've followed Mosely for the last few years and each year he comes up with a new variant of the 'diabetes' diet so he can publish a new book and have another BBC program. He is always behind where we are on this forum but in line with Establishment thinking (i.e. safe, based on Group-think but not optimal). This years diet is the ND one which I don't have much time for as usual it's based on 'Calorie' thinking rather than 'Carbs' which doesn't really follow the science of how the body's metabolism works
     
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  16. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    I watched the program diagnosis detectives and found it engrossing it is not all about Mosely but about the patients and the 12 specialist doctors who are trying to provide a diagnosis for patients who have been un-diagnosed for some time.

    Bit of a spoiler here one case did involve the vagus nerve.
     
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  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Quite a few people report the benefits of reducing carbs and fibre in regards to IBS.
    A more meat based diet appears, from my admittedly anecdotal reading, to help quite a bit.

    Ignore the first recipe but then read the personal stories after

    https://meatrx.com/?s=IBS
     
  18. Lizzie2

    Lizzie2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I’ve gone right off him, he is overexposed these days bordering on being greedy and there doesn’t seem to be anything he isn’t prepared to write a book or make a TV programme about, usually based on an idea from someone else. As you say he is always that bit behind us in here.
     
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  19. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I have a pre diab guy who swears by the 800 kcal diet and it works but there again he does it once a year every year which suggests it hasn't stuck in terms of weight management but we can see why it is a popular quick hitter.
    Trust Me I Am A Doctor isn't a great sell for me either! He is mainly a tv medical journalist with a trusted voice and consequently unlikely to upset the nutritional apple-cart and with the DuK and NHS endorsing the 800 kcal idea in principle and now in practice, I think he's taken a wise commercial decision.
    I think 800 kcal must be low carb almost by definition if it also includes some fats and proteins as it must. It works for him when his wife controls all the meals and he does not go out to eat!
     
  20. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Looking at what was allegedly their house on the C4 program it's obviously done him (and his bank balance) a lot of good indeed.
     
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