Is this forum proving useful?

[dipsticky]

ihs said.

People should not live in fear that they are going to develop complications from poor control unless they follow an extremely low carb diet. That simply is not the case

Is this a wind up ?

What a load of rubbish !! It is well documented here and elsewhere in medical papers that uncontrolled Diabetes leads to many complications whether or not you follow a low carb, low Gi, low fat you name it type of diet.
I follow a mixture of everything mentioned. I am very aware of the complications having had a fair few so far. It is misleading of you to state what you did.

D.

 

[Thirsty]

dipsticky, I don't think ihs was being at all misleading...

People should not live in fear that they are going to develop complications from poor control unless they follow an extremely low carb diet. That simply is not the case

I and others, both here and back in the real world, don't low-carb and manage to maintain excellent control. Who are we misleading? Perhaps you've missed some of the more unpleasant threads that have occurred here in the past.

 

[Administrator]

The point of Dipsticky's argument was this:

uncontrolled Diabetes leads to many complications

This is medical fact...

op said:

People should not live in fear that they are going to develop complications from poor control

Perhaps the wording of the sentence makes it confusing and the meaning taken is unintended?

 

[iHs]

ihs said.

People should not live in fear that they are going to develop complications from poor control unless they follow an extremely low carb diet. That simply is not the case

Is this a wind up ?

What a load of rubbish !! It is well documented here and elsewhere in medical papers that uncontrolled Diabetes leads to many complications whether or not you follow a low carb, low Gi, low fat you name it type of diet.
I follow a mixture of everything mentioned. I am very aware of the complications having had a fair few so far. It is misleading of you to state what you did.

D.

Dipstick & Dan

I think you need to read my message again.

Just in case you have bad sight, I'll state it again emphazing the important bit in bold Grrrrrrr :evil:

People should not live in fear that they are going to develop complications from poor control unless they follow an EXTREMELY low carb diet[/b]. That simply is not the case

Carbing in moderation is all that is needed for good control. I should know, I've had diabetes much longer than Fergus and Hana's husband.

 

[davenol2]

ihs said.

People should not live in fear that they are going to develop complications from poor control unless they follow an extremely low carb diet. That simply is not the case

Is this a wind up ?

What a load of rubbish !! It is well documented here and elsewhere in medical papers that uncontrolled Diabetes leads to many complications whether or not you follow a low carb, low Gi, low fat you name it type of diet.
I follow a mixture of everything mentioned. I am very aware of the complications having had a fair few so far. It is misleading of you to state what you did.

D.

I think you miss the point dipsticky. ihs was trying to make the point that the constant preaching of the low carbers is that unless you follow the low carb way and only the low carb way you will end up with poor control and all the complications that go with poor control. it is this scare mongering that ihs was meaning when saying people should not iive in fear of complication just because they dont low carb.

 

[Trinkwasser]

No harm as far as I cam concerned. The debate is a clear divide, and I want somewhere that non low-carbers can post without restrictions - hence this forum. To my mind it is fulfilling a need, and I hope that it becomes better attended as time goes on.

Best to all,

Admin

I actually think it's a great idea - and some of you wouldn't have expected me to write that!

My *personal* observation over many years and in many forums and newsgroups is that a rather small percentage of diabetics actually DO do well on the low fat diet, and likewise a small but probably slightly larger proportion of nondiabetics too.

The problem comes when all Health Authorities and many others try to impose a diet which blatantly doesn't work for the majority, and no amount of missionary zeal will alter this fact.

I strongly suspect this "divide" will demonstrate the proof of this statement: there will be a comparatively small number of genuine success stories here and a significantly larger number in the neighbouring forum.

Whatever works for *you*, do it! That's why if I preach anything I preach testing. Routine BG tests and lipid panels demonstrate factually whether what you are doing is working for you in a way that attitude-ridden discussion simply can't.

I suspect I won't be posting here again so don't panic <G>

 

[Administrator]

test test test

those words again

 

[Thirsty]

My *personal* observation over many years and in many forums and newsgroups is that a rather small percentage of diabetics actually DO do well on the low fat diet, and likewise a small but probably slightly larger proportion of nondiabetics too.

Interesting. The advice I've been given is to avoid fat as much as possible whilst also sticking to foods which are low GI. That's come from my GP, DSN and the dietitian at the local hospital, all of whom seem to agree on the basics. Does the choice necessarily have to be between strictly low carb high fat and low fat high carb diets? I really don't see why it should.

 

[Trinkwasser]

My *personal* observation over many years and in many forums and newsgroups is that a rather small percentage of diabetics actually DO do well on the low fat diet, and likewise a small but probably slightly larger proportion of nondiabetics too.

Interesting. The advice I've been given is to avoid fat as much as possible whilst also sticking to foods which are low GI. That's come from my GP, DSN and the dietitian at the local hospital, all of whom seem to agree on the basics. Does the choice necessarily have to be between strictly low carb high fat and low fat high carb diets? I really don't see why it should.

The problem comes from the fact that fat is automatically vilified to the extent most research is in high carb diets by default. It's only when carbs are reduced to a sufficiently low level (which varies between individuals) that the metabolism shifts. It's hugely more complex than that of course, most of the population probably has a relative deficiency of Omega 3 vs. Omega 6 which a low fat diet amplifies. Excess fructose appears to increase insulin resistance. Wheat seems to have specific problems over and above gluten intolerance.

The Big Picture is that environmental and especially dietary factors are expressing not only diabetes genes but obesity genes and leading to increased levels of other cardiovascular disease too. All this seems to be getting worse under the dietary regime that is supposed to be curing it.

I'm with Mark Sisson (and before him Loren Cordain, Weston Price etc.) in going back to look at what we evolved to eat rather than what the Food Industry or the Medical Industry tells us to eat.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-prim ... continuum/

my BG testing demonstrates that I am notably better off in his "weight loss" zone, and the lipid panels demonstrate that with that level of carbs I turn saturated fats into HDL rather than LDL.

Now I KNOW my family has weird and funky genes, so it's very likely others have weird and funky genes which work in a different way. It just appears that a rather larger percentage of the population is carb-intolerant rather than fat-intolerant. Otherwise the current dietary recommendations would be working so well we could all go home.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

If this sub board is for non low carbers why is this thread here at all?

Unfortunately, as a newly diagnosed Type 2 on Insulin and a new forum member I just find all this division stupid, we are all diabetics, right?

Why do some members feel the need to bring diet into EVERY thread. I have found another forum with friendly posters who don't continually squabble and I shall post there in future, I will still look in here for the odd post that doesn't descend into a diet discussion but I shan't bother posting much. A shame really because this forum obviously has some very knowledgeable members.

Perhaps this unbiased post will make some members realise what all this squabbling looks like to a new member or someone just looking in.

 

[dipsticky]

If this sub board is for non low carbers why is this thread here at all?

It's here because Dan the Man is looking for feedback. Helpful or otherwise.

Unfortunately, as a newly diagnosed Type 2 on Insulin and a new forum member I just find all this division stupid, we are all diabetics, right?

Totally agree. Well said.

Why do some members feel the need to bring diet into EVERY thread. I have found another forum with friendly posters who don't continually squabble and I shall post there in future, I will still look in here for the odd post that doesn't descend into a diet discussion but I shan't bother posting much. A shame really because this forum obviously has some very knowledgeable members.

Unfortunately diet is a fact of life to a Diabetic. Whether you like it or not for some of us it is the main way to control. My diet has evolved over time because carbs seem to affect me more than others on here. As for your comment that it is in EVERY thread that is frankly a wild exaggeration. The sort of thing a newcomer like myself would read and perhaps believe and go elsewhere. This is just not true. As for your other 'comfortable' friendly forum ? Does it have the same bank of excellent information and advice that goes on here on a daily basis. I looked and there doesn't seem to be much going on yet ? Maybe it will turn out to be a good place, who knows ?
Perhaps this unbiased post will make some members realise what all this squabbling looks like to a new member or someone just looking in.

Unbiased ? Not so sure about that.

D.

 

[DaddyNoLC]

If this is supposed to be a forum for non low carbers what are low carbers doing here talking about the "benefits" of low carbing?

Is there a safe place for non low carbers to discus what they want to without the thread turning into a low carb discussion yet again?

Apparently not!

From what Admin wrote: "If you do not low-carb and wish to debate/discuss diabetes diet issues, stick to the non low-carb diabetes diet forum. However contrary to your opinion some of the threads may be, please keep this area of the forum free for low-carbers. Consistent misuse of this forum is a banning offence.

Regards,

Admin"

Does anyone take notice of the above?

Hell NO!

 

[davenol2]

i agree daddy but they will be in but one thing you can probably guarantee if a non low carber posted in the low carb forum admin and the mods would soon remove it.

Im not asking for special treatment dan i am just asking for fair play by all.

 

[dipsticky]

Ok. Just where do you people expect me to post then. I am first and foremost a low Gi dieter. I became this because of the information from tubolard and catherine cherub amongst others. I added a low fat and low salt element to it and sat back. Things improved for me but not as much as I had hoped.

I then began reducing the number and types of carbohydrates in my diet as well. this was because of the information from the British Dietetic Assn which tubs and I think catherine had posted to people here ? I am following the advice given by them.

I am a mongrel, neither one thing or the other. I can't get in the Kennel Club so I came here, what I thought was the natural refuge for all those who truly don't low carb, (i.e. beneath about 50g per day ) My carb intake is well above that so I am happy to post here.

This is supposed to be a place for all those who don't low carb - well I don't and never will. So am I to be frozen out of here too ? Maybe I should have said just reduced ? I still think that means you would have me kicked out ?

Perhaps I should have a forum all to myself and all the other mongrels can come and join me.
If I am banned from here then so be it. I have no idea why I should be, but I stick by the rules.

D.

 

[mullaneder]

i can only speak for myself but you are welcome here dipsticky,i dont think any diabetic can eat as many carbs as they want !!and to call oneself a low carber you have to be a bit obsessive about them ,which clearly you are not .there are going to be differences in opinion no matter what.i have seen threads in the low carb section where they eat stew for breakfast .anyone that doesnt want stew for breakfast is welcome here :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[dipsticky]

i can only speak for myself but you are welcome here dipsticky,i dont think any diabetic can eat as many carbs as they want !!and to call oneself a low carber you have to be a bit obsessive about them ,which clearly you are not .there are going to be differences in opinion no matter what.i have seen threads in the low carb section where they eat stew for breakfast .anyone that doesnt want stew for breakfast is welcome here :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks mullaneder. Much appreciated. Nice to see another free thinker who isn't afraid to stand out from the crowd ?
As for the others.....well I just hope you can both look back on this and put it all down to experience, get the facts before you jump in feet first. I've been asked if I would be interested in joining the dfl site. After seeing some familiar faces there, I think I might just give it a miss. Better the devil you know. 8)

D.

 

[bunty]

I almost left this site some time back when i was personally attacked on the threads - and by one of the mods, too and in PM by one vociferous low-carber.

But then the Admin tried to diffuse the situation and i returned and even posted a few times.

However, i grew rapidly hacked off by the low-carbers, who seem to vie with one another to exist on the lowest number of carbs possible. They remind me of the internet sites for anorexics.

And then Admin tried again and created this forum, which i looked at today for the first time. I will stick around a bit longer...

...i think the low-carbers who post their preaching here are trying to undermine the intent of this forum and i think they're being allowed to do so.

Moving on from that gripe...

I eat far fewer carbs than ever i did before coming to this site but eat loads of carbs some days. In fact, some days i eat heaps of them because that's what kind of mood i'm in, for whatever reason. My HbA1Cs so far have all been in the mid-5s, so i must be doing something right!

I have been thrilled to discover that if i eat a pile of carbs then do some exercise, my blood levels are fine later, when i test. For instance, this Sunday i ate a grilled bacon sandwich on white sliced (i couldnt get brown when i had rushed to the shop the previous day) and a sugar-free milk shake, followed by an entire packet of milkybar sweets. That was sheer greed and indulgence and knowing that i cant have some now and some later - i'm an all or nothing sort of girl!

Then i got on my bike and armed with 2 bottles of plain water only, set off for a couple of hours and 17 miles later returned home and tested at 5.3. Yippee!

So, to me, living the normal life of reduced carbs and no sweeties or bread of any type but having fun and sweeties at the weekend, with exercise, is my way of living, for now anyway.

And that is ME, how I do it! LOL

bunty

 

[mullaneder]

well done bunty great results please stay around we need to balance the arguement were the milkybar sweets really nice :lol:

 

[Administrator]

Hi Bunty, great post

- When it comes to this area of the forum. It isn't intended as a place to stir up anti-low-carb sentiment or complain about treatment. Anyone using it for this purpose is completely missing the point. The aim is for it to be a supportive place for those who do not low-carb to share their experiences and help each other.

 

[mullaneder]

still a lot of low carb postings in this forum :roll: :roll: :roll: