Walking Girl
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 314
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Diet only
Sorry these sentences made it sound more of a theory
And sorry it wasn’t clear to me it excluded anything about blood sugars. Just about weight.
As I said I’m very glad it’s working for you but I maintain it’s about carb management primarily - as that rather takes care of weight management. Maybe the changes you’ve made have incorporated that anyway.
I get the impression that you think that everyone will eventually regain any weight they lose. And the advice from your doctor just screams non committal.The nature of these forums make it tough to fully communicate. I asked my doctor this question at a diabetes appt. The speech on not exceeding specific blood glucose measures was already had, and then I said “hey, I’ve read A LOT about weight loss reducing insulin resistance, so, which diet do you recommend for that...”. And she gave me the response of a very good doctor...what would I actually and genuinely do?
And voila, 90 pounds ( 41 kilos ) later it turns out for me, personally, it was largely about the weight (and regular exercise). I get that is not true for everyone; diabetes is a complex disease.
Is this a seriois post or satire?As if by magic my twitter feed posted this
https://elemental.medium.com/the-calorie-myth-f9e5248daa0c
Not really no.Please could you point out where in that paper it says so? I couldn't find what you claim is written in the paper: There is no mention of "hour" or "hours" anywhere in the paper, nor "days" associated with either "2" or "two" and "adapt" is only mentioned in the heading I quote below, the contents and two study references. This is a quote from the paper you cite:
Adaptation to ketosis
During starvation, ketone body levels increase from day 3 and continue to rise to reach a plateau around 8 mmol/L after 5—6 weeks of starvation.
which seems to back what we were saying. No?
The full results are discussed in the video linked. You clearly didn't watch it.Not the first time broken or irrelevant links have been used
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...-restriction-fans.166300/page-15#post-2096772 #286
Again the irony here is strong. You're proving the point I was making.And that is the root of the problem.
You are so limited in your perspective that you cannot see what you are being told, over and over again on this thread (and everywhere else on the forum, if you go and look).
The thing that unites diabetics is that they got diagnosed as having high blood glucose, and given a label of ‘Diabetic’. With the likely addition of a secondary label, ‘type 1’, ‘type 2’, ‘type 3’ (there are lots of those), ‘insipidus’, ‘bronze’, etc.
These types of D are fundamentally different. In their physical manifestation (autoimmune, insulin resistance, alpha and/or beta cell damage, or total pancreatic failure, AVP/ADH hormones being wonky, damaging levels of ferritin, etc.), and their treatment (insulin, diet, exercise, oral meds, phlebotamy, etc).
The thing that makes every diabetic an individual within those groups, is that each has a personal experience, based on the individual way that their body is failing. No two type 1s have the same experience, from each other, from yesterday, from tomorrow. Every day an adventure. Each type 2 has a different carb tolerance, level of insulin resistance, reaction to different foods, to medication... The variation is endless.
Your belief that there are universal rules that apply to everyone is... well, actually, it is betraying your lack of understanding of ‘diabetes’ with every post.
You have people posting on every side, trying to explain this, but you reject what they are saying. Over and over again.
So the carb tolerating diabetics in that study are not relevant to me. My body doesn’t tolerate carbs. Thats a fundamental difference, right there. A high carb diet would send me into a cycle of hypers and hypos and i would have been expelled from the study by day 3. Actually, I would have walked out as soon as I got ill, or been excluded from the study before it started.
These studies have stringent selection processes and I would have been weeded out as soon as they discovered my reaction to carbs and my other health issues. It is a common feature of these studies that they are only as good as their selection process. Just as Professor Taylor’s Newcastle Diet studies select their participants.
You did know that, didn’t you? That the ND pre-study selection process weeded out large numbers of ‘unsuitable’ diabetics? Rejecting those with longer term diagnoses, those who did not have a BMI high enough, and those with other health issues and co-morbidities. Yet even then, the participants did not all respond in the same way. The non-responders seem to be swept aside, with all the focus being on the responders.
I would not even have got through the ND selection process (no point in trying to defat a liver that doesn’t have fat in it, is there?).
So no, those high carb studies you mention are of no relevance to me. Just as the ND is of no relevance to me.
Or to many of the other people posting on this thread who are banging their heads against the wall of your faith in science and its universal application.
What are these things that are more fundamental than hormones?Again the irony here is strong. You're proving the point I was making.
I'm not ruling out individual differences to dietary responses, I prescribe low carb diets sometimess myself. But if individual differences are in important why does everyone here rule out any other diet than LC or LCHF for diabetes management? When I've shown they can be successfully treated with a large percentage of carbohydrate in your diet in clinical settings?
This being the case it demonstrates that something more fundamental than hormones is responsible for improvements in the majority of cases.
The most effective diet ever studied in treatment of T2D, isn’t even low in carbs - at least not as a percentage of its calories.
why does everyone here rule out any other diet than LC or LCHF
I couldnt watch either video, as you links dont work. one says Bad Gateway, and one says Not FoundThe full results are discussed in the video linked. You clearly didn't watch it.
1) we dont, we are sharing that your blanket view that CICO works for all has exceptions, using our personal experience.But if individual differences are in important why does everyone here rule out any other diet than LC or LCHF for diabetes management?
When I've shown they can be successfully treated with a large percentage of carbohydrate in your diet in clinical settings?
They work perfectly here.I couldnt watch either video, as you links dont work. one says Bad Gateway, and one says Not Found
nope. You have shown studies where 49% carbs has been tested versus 73% carbs - and the benefits were minuscule.
that information is of no use without me being able to see the type and quantity of food he ate, and all the other relevant data.They work perfectly here.
Just search for "abs and icecream" alternatively.
His results after eating 80% of his calories from ice cream for 100 days.
Blood results (Before / After):
Triglycerides (fat in your blood): 72 / 47
HDL (Good Cholesterol): 52 / 69
LDL (Bad Cholesterol): 52 / 47
Cardiac Risk Factor: 2.3 / 1.6
All improved.
Only when they are our anecdotes...that information is of no use without me being able to see the type and quantity of food he ate, and all the other relevant data.
I also thought you were against using anecdotes as evidence?
Might I ask why, all of a sudden, you are quoting lipids? And anyone who still uses the terms "good cholesterol" and "bad cholesterol" is way behind the times in my humble opinion.They work perfectly here.
Just search for "abs and icecream" alternatively.
His results after eating 80% of his calories from ice cream for 100 days.
Blood results (Before / After):
Triglycerides (fat in your blood): 72 / 47
HDL (Good Cholesterol): 52 / 69
LDL (Bad Cholesterol): 52 / 47
Cardiac Risk Factor: 2.3 / 1.6
All improved.
I am in general against anecdotes yes, you all here seem to live by "personal experience" though.that information is of no use without me being able to see the type and quantity of food he ate, and all the other relevant data.
I also thought you were against using anecdotes as evidence?
Because it shows the importance of weight management on health parameters in general.Might I ask why, all of a sudden, you are quoting lipids? And anyone who still uses the terms "good cholesterol" and "bad cholesterol" is way behind the times in my humble opinion.
Please do not misunderstand, I am not dismissing lipids as unimportant, just wondering about the change in tack.
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