Links to studies supporting Low Carb/showing calorie restriction ineffective?

[copilost]

These studies have stringent selection processes

I'd completely support this and say you need to investigate "selection bias" in fact all forms of research bias, very interesting if you're genuinely interested in research.

 

[bulkbiker]

It's no longer a hypothesis when it's supported by the majority of the data.

And there was me thinking it was a "law" i.e. everything must comply... ?
The majority of the data does not make it unalienable and thus not a "law" so CICO as a theory is not universally applicable.

 

[Guzzler]

The only use for CICO is when you run on coal and want to know when you might reach peak velocity.

 

[bulkbiker]

As if by magic my twitter feed posted this

https://elemental.medium.com/the-calorie-myth-f9e5248daa0c

 

[Guzzler]

As if by magic my twitter feed posted this

https://elemental.medium.com/the-calorie-myth-f9e5248daa0c

I've only scanned it but it is how I have mentioned. A sealed chamber - the human body is not a sealed chamber and the variables of the human metabolism and the environment surrounding it are nowhere near a constant.

Once again to apply mathematics (or physics) to a question of biology (or physiology) is akin to measuring the speed of sound by way of custard creams.

 

[pdmjoker]

Also it does not take 3 weeks to become keto adapted. This study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24351673/ shows it can take as little as 48hrs.

Please could you point out where in that paper it says so? I couldn't find what you claim is written in the paper: There is no mention of "hour" or "hours" anywhere in the paper, nor "days" associated with either "2" or "two" and "adapt" is only mentioned in the heading I quote below, the contents and two study references. This is a quote from the paper you cite:

Adaptation to ketosis
During starvation, ketone body levels increase from day 3 and continue to rise to reach a plateau around 8 mmol/L after 5—6 weeks of starvation.​

which seems to back what we were saying. No?

 

[Mbaker]

I have shifted my way of thinking to Shawn Bakers. He starts from the results and how you feel, then he may look at some bio markers. Calories are useful relatively only. So say you were eating 2000 of the same food continually, you could remove a broccoli floret and see what this does relative to your workouts etc. Is the calorie amount really 2000, it might be 1850 or 2150 who knows. I have noticed in France and Spain when I get hazelnuts and brazil nuts there are around half the carbs of the amount of calories in the UK. So for the same amount of volume the calories would be different.

If humans want to do what no other animal does fine, I will abstain and waste more time watching formula 1.

 

[pdmjoker]

If humans want to do what no other animal does fine, I will abstain and waste more time watching formula 1.

But no other animal watches Formula 1, either! Contradiction!

 

[Mbaker]

But no other animal watches Formula 1, either! Contradiction!

German grand prix first practice just starting, so happy days for me.

 

[pdmjoker]

Please could you point out where in that paper it says so? I couldn't find what you claim is written in the paper: There is no mention of "hour" or "hours" anywhere in the paper, nor "days" associated with either "2" or "two" and "adapt" is only mentioned in the heading I quote below, the contents and two study references. This is a quote from the paper you cite:

Adaptation to ketosis
During starvation, ketone body levels increase from day 3 and continue to rise to reach a plateau around 8 mmol/L after 5—6 weeks of starvation.​

which seems to back what we were saying. No?

Edit: A friend of mine couldn't find within that paper what you claimed, either. If you now cite the paper which DOES include your claim, I'm sure we'll accept that you just made a mistake.

Otherwise it will appear that you made a false claim and spread false information - which I thought was what you were accusing us on this forum of doing and were so against. (I also noticed that your link to the Satiety Index had no bearing on the point you were trying to make at the time...)

 

[HSSS]

Edit: A friend of mine couldn't find within that paper what you claimed, either. If you now cite the paper which DOES include your claim, I'm sure we'll accept that you just made a mistake.

Otherwise it will appear that you made a false claim and spread false information - which I thought was what you were accusing us on this forum of doing and were so against. (I also noticed that your link to the Satiety Index had no bearing on the point you were trying to make at the time...)

Not the first time broken or irrelevant links have been used
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...-restriction-fans.166300/page-15#post-2096772 #286

 

[pdmjoker]

Not the first time broken or irrelevant links have been used
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...-restriction-fans.166300/page-15#post-2096772 #286

If his claim is indeed bogus, then not only is his credibility on this forum in tatters, but he has further eroded the credibility of like-minded members of the nutritionist profession whom he represents....

Edited: bad grammar!

 

[Walking Girl]

Hello Folks,

I recently found this item from 2014 entitled "Study: Doubling Saturated Fat in the Diet Does Not Increase Saturated Fat in Blood":

https://news.osu.edu/news/2014/11/2...iet-does-not-increase-saturated-fat-in-blood/

which discusses the research paper "Effects of Step-Wise Increases in Dietary Carbohydrate on Circulating Saturated Fatty Acids and Palmitoleic Acid in Adults with Metabolic Syndrome" found here:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0113605

(co-authors Stephen D. Phinney and Jeff S. Volek will be familiar to many of you...)

I have heard of a study named something like Well Woman(?), a large-scale official US study which showed calorie restriction was not successful long-term, but can't find it.

I've heard of the Biggest Loser Study: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/oby.21538 but there must be many more...

Please could people share links to good quality studies either supporting Low Carb or showing calorie restriction to be ineffective long-term? Many thanks!

Out of curiosity, for what purpose?

I asked my doctor what the best weight loss diet was for a T2, and her response was “the one you will stay on”. Exactly. And now that I’ve lost the weight, I would add that the best way of eating once the weight has been lost is “one that makes the ‘lifestyle change’ permanent”. I eat when I’m hungry, and stop when satisfied. If I ignore my true hunger signals and eat too much, I cut back until I lose the pound or 2 I’ve gained. I go by how I feel, and what my medical tests confirm is good for me.

 

[HSSS]

Out of curiosity, for what purpose?

I asked my doctor what the best weight loss diet was for a T2, and her response was “the one you will stay on”. Exactly. And now that I’ve lost the weight, I would add that the best way of eating once the weight has been lost is “one that makes the ‘lifestyle change’ permanent”. I eat when I’m hungry, and stop when satisfied. If I ignore my true hunger signals and eat too much, I cut back until I lose the pound or 2 I’ve gained. I go by how I feel, and what my medical tests confirm is good for me.

I’ve lost the weight already. By your theory anything that I can maintain and listen to hunger would be ok at this point. But if I eat carbs my blood sugar rockets regardless of and before it raises the numbers on the scales. Not what I want. Perhaps your method works for you but it doesn’t for lots of us. Weight is not the only thing that makes us diabetic

 

[Guzzler]

Out of curiosity, for what purpose?

I asked my doctor what the best weight loss diet was for a T2, and her response was “the one you will stay on”. Exactly. And now that I’ve lost the weight, I would add that the best way of eating once the weight has been lost is “one that makes the ‘lifestyle change’ permanent”. I eat when I’m hungry, and stop when satisfied. If I ignore my true hunger signals and eat too much, I cut back until I lose the pound or 2 I’ve gained. I go by how I feel, and what my medical tests confirm is good for me.

The purpose? The purpose is to debate and possibly debunk paradigms.

Eating a diet based on 'what you can stick to' tells us nothing, I can stick to a modern western diet and not gain weight to excess, does that mean it is ok?

 

[Walking Girl]

I’ve lost the weight already. By your theory anything that I can maintain and listen to hunger would be ok at this point. But if I eat carbs my blood sugar rockets regardless of and before it raises the numbers on the scales. Not what I want. Perhaps your method works for you but it doesn’t for lots of us. Weight is not the only thing that makes us diabetic

This was a story of my experience, not a “theory” about anything. Did you miss the part about medical tests confirming my weight-maintenance diet is good for me? I thought My post was clear that would exclude anything that makes my blood sugar rocket up?

 

[Walking Girl]

The purpose? The purpose is to debate and possibly debunk paradigms.

Eating a diet based on 'what you can stick to' tells us nothing, I can stick to a modern western diet and not gain weight to excess, does that mean it is ok?

Do people generally get great cholesterol, blood pressure, etc results on the modern western diet? I read that they do not pretty much every day.

 

[HSSS]

This was a story of my experience, not a “theory” about anything

Sorry these sentences made it sound more of a theory

I asked my doctor what the best weight loss diet was for a T2, and her response was “the one you will stay on”. ......... I would add that the best way of eating once the weight has been lost is “one that makes the ‘lifestyle change’ permanent”.

And sorry it wasn’t clear to me it excluded anything about blood sugars. Just about weight.

As I said I’m very glad it’s working for you but I maintain it’s about carb management primarily - as that rather takes care of weight management. Maybe the changes you’ve made have incorporated that anyway.

 

[pdmjoker]

Out of curiosity, for what purpose?

I asked my doctor what the best weight loss diet was for a T2, and her response was “the one you will stay on”. Exactly. And now that I’ve lost the weight, I would add that the best way of eating once the weight has been lost is “one that makes the ‘lifestyle change’ permanent”. I eat when I’m hungry, and stop when satisfied. If I ignore my true hunger signals and eat too much, I cut back until I lose the pound or 2 I’ve gained. I go by how I feel, and what my medical tests confirm is good for me.

The reason is that some people seem to think Low Carb diets are without any medical support and that calorie restriction is thoroughly supported by medical studies. I was particularly addressing this perspective...

 

[Walking Girl]

The reason is that some people seem to think Low Carb diets are without any medical support and that calorie restriction is thoroughly supported by medical studies. I was particularly addressing this perspective...

Ah, OK. I personally have found very few true medical studies of long term results of any diet because fact is, the vast majority of people who lose weight on any plan gain it back. Certainly controlled studies do not exist. People go back to “normal”, meaning pre weight loss eating, and expect the weight to magically stay off. And if you can dig in on any study that shows long term results, and again there are very few, it really is often measuring compliance with, not efficacy of, the particular diet. Which is why I personally always say people should choose a plan that heavily includes food they like. ( And to be very clear, I’m talking about plans formT2s, which would include acceptable blood sugar results.). Which is kind of what my doctor meant...what would I stick with? Basically she was telling me “stop reading and start dieting”. LOL.