Low Carb Diets

[Julie27318]

I have just come across somthing on Google which says that Low carb diets are the easiest way to develop insulin resistance!!Scientists induced Insulin resistance and Diabetes by feeding laboratory Animals a diet high in fat and protein and low in carbs.Low carb diets significantly increased chronic disease risk in the long term!!!now don't know what to do this site says that's what we should be doing and now this!!!..if it's going to cause problems in the long term!!!

 

[Guzzler]

If you could put a link to that page perhaps we could help.

 

[Alexandra100]

I have just come across somthing on Google which says that Low carb diets are the easiest way to develop insulin resistance!!Scientists induced Insulin resistance and Diabetes by feeding laboratory Animals a diet high in fat and protein and low in carbs.Low carb diets significantly increased chronic disease risk in the long term!!!now don't know what to do this site says that's what we should be doing and now this!!!..if it's going to cause problems in the long term!!!

Animals are not us!!! Seriously, it is not possible to be sure how humans will react by by testing on animals. If it were, trials on humans would not be needed, new medicines could be given to humans as soon as they had been shown not to harm animals. This is not the case.

Very low carb diets were successfully used to save the lives of T1s before insulin was used in diabetes. Read Dr Bernstein (now about 84) and Jenny Ruhl (now over 70) for confirmation that low carb is not a death sentence. Sometimes in these trials the diets fed to the animals are very strange and extreme, nothing like what they would usually have, so that it is no wonder they don't do well on them. Jenny Ruhl is very good at pointing out these sorts of research flaws.

 

[Alexandra100]

if it's going to cause problems in the long term!!!

In the long term raised bg can lead to amputation, blindness, kidney failure, impotence ... or if you're lucky you have a fatal heart attack before these disasters have time to happen. If you can keep your bg low and level without eating low carb, congratulations, go for it! I certainly can't.

 

[miahara]

Hi @Julie27318 318, I'm a bit sceptical about that bit of research - could you possible post a link to it as it goes against much recent and pretty well validated research.
Testing on animals doesn't always means the same results will occur in humans. The original research into the effects of fats and cholesterol and the assumed consequences for human health were conducted by feeding rabbits high fat diets and rabbits are herbivores and don't eat meat!

 

[kokhongw]

Yes, at some point we need to make some tough decisions...about the long term purported risks of stable flatline glucose...that everyone warns us about...

Animal fats did not cause any spikes in my glucose for the past 3 years...

 

[Scott-C]

Very low carb diets were successfully used to save the lives of T1s before insulin was used in diabetes.

Alexandra, I know you mean well, I'm not having a go at you, because I know you've made valuable contributions to the forum, but I do need to point out that the notion of low carb diets succesfully saving T1 lives pre-insulin is a complete and utter myth.

It is a worry because it has been mentioned in a number of posts in this forum - some posters have found vintage copies of lchf menus from the pre-insulin days, and made out what a wonderful life those T1s must have lived on all that scrummy lc food.

The hard cold truth is that T1s pre-insulin died horrific deaths and the best that lchf diets could do for them was drag out their miserable, skeletal existence for a few more months until Banting finished doing what he was doing.

I accept absolutely that there are good biological reasons for T2s doing lchf, but T1 biology is fundamentally different.

Repeating the myth that lchf saved T1s pre-insulin does a diservice to those who died pre-1922.

It can sometimes paint a picture that lchf is a necessity for newly dx'd T1s. That message can and has lead some newby T1s here to become terrified of carbs and insulin, and they are then not that far away from developing eating disorders.

 

[Julie27318]

Hi @Julie27318 318, I'm a bit sceptical about that bit of research - could you possible post a link to it as it goes against much recent and pretty well validated research.
Testing on animals doesn't always means the same results will occur in humans. The original research into the effects of fats and cholesterol and the assumed consequences for human health were conducted by feeding rabbits high fat diets and rabbits are herbivores and don't eat meat!

https://www.masteringdiabetes.org/low-carbohydrate-diets-long-term-effects/

 

[Alexandra100]

Alexandra, I know you mean well, I'm not having a go at you, because I know you've made valuable contributions to the forum, but I do need to point out that the notion of low carb diets succesfully saving T1 lives pre-insulin is a complete and utter myth.

It is a worry because it has been mentioned in a number of posts in this forum - some posters have found vintage copies of lchf menus from the pre-insulin days, and made out what a wonderful life those T1s must have lived on all that scrummy lc food.

The hard cold truth is that T1s pre-insulin died horrific deaths and the best that lchf diets could do for them was drag out their miserable, skeletal existence for a few more months until Banting finished doing what he was doing.

I accept absolutely that there are good biological reasons for T2s doing lchf, but T1 biology is fundamentally different.

Repeating the myth that lchf saved T1s pre-insulin does a diservice to those who died pre-1922.

It can sometimes paint a picture that lchf is a necessity for newly dx'd T1s. That message can and has lead some newby T1s here to become terrified of carbs and insulin, and they are then not that far away from developing eating disorders.

I'm sorry that my post gave some wrong impressions. Sometimes one would need to write a whole book, or at least an article to say things properly. Obviously, as you say so poignantly, the majority of T1s before insulin died because if you are making no insulin at all you cannot survive. However, there were SOME who were making minimal insulin and did survive to old age thanks to their rigid low carb diets. Jenny Ruhl met a chap who was at the time over 90 and had done just this.

My views about the value of low carb for T1s are heavily influenced by Dr Bernstein. I note your valid concern about eating disorders. In a Teleseminar Dr B mentioned the dilemma of parents of T1 children, who have to choose whether to restrict their diet to what may be healthy for their bodies, or let them eat more as "normal" children and risk diabetic complications and stunted growth. Not an easy choice.

 

[zand]

I think you have to try one way and see if it works for you personally. I tried HCLF and got fat and insulin resistant and T2, now I am following LCHF and have lost weight, so the article you quoted doesn't really say anything to me personally because I know that for me it is just plain wrong. Others may have different experiences of course.

 

[Alexandra100]

https://www.masteringdiabetes.org/low-carbohydrate-diets-long-term-effects/

Here is a quote from the study: "A growing body of evidence now shows that diets low in fat and high in unrefined carbohydrates from fruits, vegetables, beans, lentils, and whole grains are remarkably effective at reversing insulin resistance in patients with type 1 diabetes, prediabetes, and type 2 diabetes"

When I discovered that my bg was elevated and rising year on year, I was, and had been for years, eating a fanatically perfect version of that kind of diet. So I knew that a Mediterranean-type diet could not be the answer. Far from reversing my diabetes it was increasing it. So I took out about 10 books on diabetes from my local libraries and was lucky enough to stumble upon Jenny Ruhl, low carb, and then this Forum. I can't say I lived happily ever after but on low carb my bg is a lot flatter and lower than it was on my "healthy" semi-vegetarian one.

 

[Scott-C]

My views about the value of low carb for T1s are heavily influenced by Dr Bernstein.

Lol, don't get me started on that topic!

 

[Rachox]

My low carb eating and it’s effects flies in the face of this:

My personal experience
My BP is now normal on less BP meds so decreases my risk of heart disease.
My cholesterol levels are improved so decreases my risk of atherosclerosis.
My liver and kidney function tests have improved.
My osteoarthritis has improved indicating less inflammation.
I have lost approx 33% of my body weight.
I have way more energy than before low carbing.
My digestion is normal, I used to suffer with post cholecystectomy chronic diarrhoea.
And I don’t crave carbs any longer.
I know I’m only one person, but this one person isn’t convince by an article that carries out the experiments on animals and suggests humans are the same, and then at the end tries to get me to sign up for a paid subscription!

 

[Alexandra100]

Lol, don't get me started on that topic!

Well, at least I didn't make them up out of thin air!

 

[Guzzler]

https://www.masteringdiabetes.org/low-carbohydrate-diets-long-term-effects/

Some of the top brass on that site are vehement vegans. The data is cherry picked and manipulated. Animal studies usually refer to rodents. These doctors are proponents of WFPB (Whole Food Plant Based) low fat diets. The high carb low fat diet that these people expound is fine for all those whose metabolism can deal with it but to say that insulin resistance can be cured in 16 days resulting in reversal of Diabetes is a leap too far. To say that insulin resistance is caused by fats is simply not true.

 

[Julie27318]

Some of the top brass on that site are vehement vegans. The data is cherry picked and manipulated. Animal studies usually refer to rodents. These doctors are proponents of WFPB (Whole Food Plant Based) low fat diets. The high carb low fat diet that these people expound is fine for all those whose metabolism can deal with it but to say that insulin resistance can be cured in 16 days resulting in reversal of Diabetes is a leap too far. To say that insulin resistance is caused by fats is simply not true.

Is LCHF ok when u have underactive Thyroid though?

 

[AloeSvea]

Ah yes, @Julie27318, I know the website you read. Those dudes at Mastering Diabetes are very convincing and they mean well! And, some type two diabetics do very well on plant-based only low-fat diets. You might do well on it!

But...

There are two main points here I think need to be brought up in relation to these guys' diet claims. The first is - it is a natural part of the human physiology to develop what is called 'physiological insulin resistance' if on a fat-burning diet (ie lchf low enough carbs, or keto). It is how we make sure our brains get whatever glucose we are eating or making ourselves. (Brains have top priority!) The second is - fat burning for energy is a natural part of human physiology! Just as natural as glucose-burning, is my understanding. We are supposed to be able to be in either mode, and go between these modes depending on what is going on in the food environment.

Some people with diabetes are choosing to go very low carb in order to regulate, or regulate better, their blood glucose, because less glucose in (sugar and carbs in particular) via food seems to help many people with diabetes' metabolisms (and the 'Mastering Diabetes' guys acknowledge that to some degree), and can lower people's blood glucose levels hugely. You have been reading a lot of this in this forum I am sure.

Another really important biological point here is that one's individual gut biome, (and one's body type or genetic makeup) has a HUGE effect on health via food or different ways of eating. You start out in life getting your gut biome from your biological mother, and if she continues to feed you from herself and then from her table, then you can see how having a gut biome to support the food and types of food you eat can work. You personally may have a great gut biome to support eating only plant-based food and to be healthy. And I read about something called an allele (don't ask me what it is though! lol) that for many people whose ancestors ate a largely plant based diet have which makes eating only plants work really well for them. (I believe I do not have that allele! lol.Nor did I get that gut biome from my mother.)

Which brings me to my final and most important point. Give different ways of eating in order to get better with diabetes a try! Test your blood glucose levels, how well you feel, how much energy you have, your skin, hair , eyes (they are the obvious indicators of health we all intuitively understand when we see it), and of course - your HBA1c levels and diabetes status. Try low carbing for a few months, and see how you feel on it. (And forget the longterm grim forcast stuff and remind yourself of what physiological insulin resistance is being perfectly normal.) (It is NOT the same as diabetic insulin resistance in other words.) Get your tests as above. Then go plant based only. Do the same thing. Or the other way around of course! There are subforums here for all ways of eating - and wonderful this is too.

Good luck with your own 'way of eating' journey! I hope you find one that suits you and your body type etc (and of course - your philosophies on food.)

 

[Guzzler]

Is LCHF ok when u have underactive Thyroid though?

I have read/seen nothing that would suggest that LCHF is harmful to those with Thyroid dysfunction. Perhaps other members with this condition could allay your fears, I have no problems in that area.

 

[zand]

Is LCHF ok when u have underactive Thyroid though?

Yes, it's been fine for me. Plant based isn't good for me as soya adversely affects my thyroid.

 

[Julie27318]

Ah yes, @Julie27318, I know the website you read. Those dudes at Mastering Diabetes are very convincing and they mean well! And, some type two diabetics do very well on plant-based only low-fat diets. You might do well on it!

But...

There are two main points here I think need to be brought up in relation to these guys' diet claims. The first is - it is a natural part of the human physiology to develop what is called 'physiological insulin resistance' if on a fat-burning diet (ie lchf low enough carbs, or keto). It is how we make sure our brains get whatever glucose we are eating or making ourselves. (Brains have top priority!) The second is - fat burning for energy is a natural part of human physiology! Just as natural as glucose-burning, is my understanding. We are supposed to be able to be in either mode, and go between these modes depending on what is going on in the food environment.

Some people with diabetes are choosing to go very low carb in order to regulate, or regulate better, their blood glucose, because less glucose in (sugar and carbs in particular) via food seems to help many people with diabetes' metabolisms (and the 'Mastering Diabetes' guys acknowledge that to some degree), and can lower people's blood glucose levels hugely. You have been reading a lot of this in this forum I am sure.

Another really important biological point here is that one's individual gut biome, (and one's body type or genetic makeup) has a HUGE effect on health via food or different ways of eating. You start out in life getting your gut biome from your biological mother, and if she continues to feed you from herself and then from her table, then you can see how having a gut biome to support the food and types of food you eat can work. You personally may have a great gut biome to support eating only plant-based food and to be healthy. And I read about something called an allele (don't ask me what it is though! lol) that for many people whose ancestors ate a largely plant based diet have which makes eating only plants work really well for them. (I believe I do not have that allele! lol.Nor did I get that gut biome from my mother.)

Which brings me to my final and most important point. Give different ways of eating in order to get better with diabetes a try! Test your blood glucose levels, how well you feel, how much energy you have, your skin, hair , eyes (they are the obvious indicators of health we all intuitively understand when we see it), and of course - your HBA1c levels and diabetes status. Try low carbing for a few months, and see how you feel on it. (And forget the longterm grim forcast stuff and remind yourself of what physiological insulin resistance is being perfectly normal.) (It is NOT the same as diabetic insulin resistance in other words.) Get your tests as above. Then go plant based only. Do the same thing. Or the other way around of course! There are subforums here for all ways of eating - and wonderful this is too.

Good luck with your own 'way of eating' journey! I hope you find one that suits you and your body type etc (and of course - your philosophies on food.)

An Allele is each of a two or more alternative forms of a gene that arise by mutation and are found at the same place on a chromosome!....just looked it up!!! i get all my knowledge from Internet!!!