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low carb, high fat

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by PaulDK, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. PaulDK

    PaulDK Type 2 · Member

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    Hi All
    I am of the view that a low carb diet is necessary for beating type 2 diabetes. I also believe that a low fat diet is also necessary, though many would disagree.
    But what I don't understand about low carb diets is that many of them come with a high fat content.
    Diabetes control aside, that to me seems strange. All cardio-vascular hospital consultants are very emphatic in their view that a low fat diet is best for avoiding clogged arteries, strokes, heart attacks and other vascular conditions. It seems to me that even if a low carb high fat diet can help you control your diet, it will be injuring cardio-vascular system ... so why do so many on this website recomment a high fat diet?
     
  2. Mike d

    Mike d Type 2 · Expert

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    Simply because it works .... the evidence is overwhelming for many here, me included. Consultants can be emphatic as they like, it doesn't mean they're right
     
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    #2 Mike d, Feb 20, 2020 at 11:27 PM
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
  3. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    Eating low carb and low fat would only leave you protein for fuel.
    Besides, many low carbers have found their cholesterol levels improved vastly, which somewhat makes the low fat mantra seem dodgy.
     
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  4. Hotpepper20000

    Hotpepper20000 · Well-Known Member

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    Also the idea that low cholesterol is beneficial, is also up for debate.
     
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  5. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Expert

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    The private cardiologist I see annually has never said I should stop eating the LCHF way...
     
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  6. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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  7. Hotpepper20000

    Hotpepper20000 · Well-Known Member

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    30 years of low fat and cholesterol pills has not decreased heart problems.
     
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  8. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    Exactly....
     
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  9. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

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    Paul, for some, Low Carb, low fat works for a while, whilst they trim up, often very fast.

    When I started on LC, I obviously didn't quite get the balancing fats right as I got skinny fast, and stayed that way. Despite remaining LC, with the (weight maintenance) balancing fats, my metabolic markers are all excellent.

    Coincidentally I a member overseas at the moment and obviously haven the got the macros right as I've dropped a couple of kilos I'd have been happier hanging onto.

    If you are set on LC + LF, I would be interested to hear how you intend to manage yourself longer term.
     
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  10. VashtiB

    VashtiB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm someone who needed to lose a lot of weight. In months I've lost over 20 kg and more importantly try my HbA1c is 33 at the last test almost the same at my 3 months review. So my diabetes is being controlled. This has not been low fat at all.
    If I lessened the fat maybe I would lose weight quicker but this way I eat when I'm hungry and eat enough to satisfy. All this and lose weight.

    I'm interested in how much protein you eat as that is all that is left
     
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  11. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Because unlike most cardiologists, we aren't stuck in 1980 :nurse:

    In any case, if you want to use protein for fuel, your liver is first going to have to turn it into glucose. Not ideal.
     
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  12. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    We were told to eat low fat and replace the fats with carbs, healthy wholegrains and such as part of the demonisation of fat. Since then, diabetes type2 and obesity have risen at incredible rates. We do now know that fat doesn't cause heart disease. The advice and belief that fat causes heart disease is just rubbish. Yet, many HCP's, not just cardio docs still believe it does. Dietician associations are often funded by junk food manufacturers and continue to spout the low fat approach in the face of worsening outcomes in general.

    Personally, I wouldn't bother seeing a cardiologist who still thinks this way if I needed to see one. The real blame lays at the feet of sugar (which is in just about everything) and starch carbohydrate like grains, so anything wheat, rice, potatoes etc. Also seed oil consumption. Fat has the least impact on insulin requirement, carbohydrates have the highest demand for insulin, it's little wonder nations are getting sicker.

    Heart disease imo is a chronic modern day disease driven by excessive glucose consumption, insulin resistance, causing inflammation, high insulin levels and a number of other factors at play. Also driven by horrid advice from HCP's and dieticians.

    If fat is so bad, why is it we have been eating it for many millions of years and yet it's only just in recent history that it is a major problem? Our ancestors didn't wake up to wheat bix and orange juice drinks.

    Fat is essential. I think low fat, low carb isn't an ideal diet to follow, fat also provide satiety. However, we can all choose what to eat and see how health markers respond on blood tests etc.
     
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  13. MetabolicJim

    MetabolicJim Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Nice to see someone challenging LCHF.

    I’m personally currently toying with the idea that carbs+fat is the way into insulin resistance and diabetes. If that’s true then dropping either the carbs or the fat might work. There’s plenty reports of LCHF working on this website. Alternatively you could drop the fat in which case it makes sense to raise the fibre to slow down the digestion of carbs, so low fat high fibre (LFHF?!). LFHF might be things like porridge, beans and vegetables. I’m prepared to believe it could work but I haven’t seen any reports of it. I think it is probably easier to meet your nutritional requirements under LCHF than LFHF, but maybe you can switch back and forth?

    As far as I can tell the demonisation of saturated fat is just wrong. There are also those that doubt the causal role of cholesterol in heart disease. It’s unconventional but I recommend episode 40 of the fat emperor: https://thefatemperor.com/ep40-dr-m...uses-of-heart-disease-are-not-what-you-think/
     
    #13 MetabolicJim, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:31 AM
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  14. Pasha

    Pasha Prediabetes · Expert

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    A few months ago I concluded that the LCHF diet was not all that suitable for me. As a last resort I greatly increased my protein intake.Within a short time period I noticed that my uphill walking abilities had improved , leading me to believe that it was the protein. Further BG improvement was needed so I dropped fat intake by about a third..I suppose that I could now describe the diet as low carb,very high protein and medium fat. The results have been very good so far. I dont attach any importance to being in ketosis, but will soon check just to see where things stand. Later on came across a lecture by Dr Ted Naiman and he mentioned that he also was giving attention to lower fat intakes.

    I have heart disease ...........+ quadruple by-pass surgery etc and thorough monitoring over the last decade + has not unearthed any negative aspects that could be traced back to the LCHF diet. My experience with cardiologists is that in the main they dont know anything about nutrition and as others have pointed out are still anchored in the past with out of date and disproved facts re arterial plaques.
     
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  15. Mike d

    Mike d Type 2 · Expert

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  16. britishpub

    britishpub Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @PaulDK I think using the word High, when talking about this lifestyle/diet is misleading, and does little to make it acceptable to the masses.

    Certainly it is Low Carb, but the Fat bit should really be just enough, not High.
     
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  17. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    We don't actually advocate any higher fat intake than our grandparents/great grandparents ate - when heart disease was rare.
    So it's really Higher Fat, but compared to the diet in the current (discredited) standard medical advice it is High- but only because they have kept reducing the fat content over the last 50yrs.
     
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  18. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

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    If it's the liver that produces the cholesterol that goes into the blood why would the fat you eat have any noticeable effect? I'm simplifying things but even cardios are influenced by the 'fat makes you fat' mantra because they assume as Joe Public does that what goes into your stomach simply goes into the blood. That's largely true for carbs but fats go through a far more complex process whilst the liver is busy turning excess carbs into fats that go into the blood stream. My otherwise super cardiologist said I should take loads of statins and get my cholesterol really low when my angiogram showed only mild arterial deposits at age 75. These guys just perpetuate the fat mantra and believe the suspect 'research'
     
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  19. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I found an article analyzing cholesterol results and age at death, and a higher age at death was not associated with a low LDL result, rather the reverse. The article was taken down - I assume that it was just so obviously wrong that it had to go.
    I'd have thought that age at death was pretty well set in stone, but perhaps they were insisting on a second opinion, or a recount....
     
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  20. BoSoBo

    BoSoBo · Member

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    It's fascinating isn't it. My cholesterol had been 5.7ish for years though I had been eating high fibre low fat, but my diet was pretty high carb too, and eventually I became pre-diabetic. So while keeping the high fibre I switched to low carb and moderate fat, and hey presto, not only did my Hba1c reduce to normal range, but so did my cholesterol!!!
     
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