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Low Carb / Low Calorie and Newcastle Diet

Discussion in 'Low-carb Diet Forum' started by charlie000, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. charlie000

    charlie000 · Well-Known Member

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    HI

    I have posted my body specification here:
    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/low-carb-diet-forum.18/

    In general:

    I am OBESE. My weight is 98kg and my height is 5'7. I should be around 64-69kg. I want to lose 30kg.

    I am pre diabetic and I would like to put it in to remission or reverse.

    I would like to follow the Newcastle Diet. I have looked in to it, watched lectures and I have a good understanding. But why are some people saying Low Carb, High fat is better?

    I am thinking of doing a low carb low calorie diet.

    I would like to lose about 5 stones. I want to start exercise 2-3 weeks in to the diet.


    Anyone help please?
     
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    #1 charlie000, Feb 19, 2019 at 1:27 AM
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  2. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I feel that the problem may be doing a low calorie and low carb diet at the same time. In my opinion this has failure written all over it and here's why; hunger and weakness. Carbs and fats fill us up, cutting both will leave you hungry and more likely to crash. The weakness will come from a lack of calories because this is where we get our energy. I would advise that you choose one diet or the other and your chances of maintaining sustainable weight loss whilst enjoying good energy levels will be improved.

    Personally, I am not an advocate of ND because I feel that it requires two major changes to dietary habits, the first is the change to shakes and the second is the change from shakes back to real food. It is this refeeding that concerns me. With LCHF there is a slightly slower change from the normal western diet to a lower carb diet that can be adjusted to taste as you go and the range of foods only widens as the palate changes. This is just my experience and of course you must do as you see fit but your plan seems more like a severely restricted calorie diet almost akin to a starvation mode.
     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    OK as you seemed determined to do this can I give you some advice.
    I'm not a ND advocate either because it forces your body into an unrealistic mode but.....

    Firstly I'd suggest you follow a very low carb diet for a month or 2 before restricting calories excessively. Try and get into ketosis first and then fat adapted so you can access your body stores of fat for energy.

    Once you have done this and have got rid of any carb addiction you may find that severe caloric restriction may be easier.

    When you are cutting down on intake try reducing meal frequency (cut down your eating window.. you could try this from the outset if you... like skip breakfast maybe) Try and end up eating once per day. Once you have got there then maybe try cutting down on food to the 800 cals.. you might find your weight is already dropping off enough so you don't have to cut back so far.

    I realise that you probably are after immediate results but "crash dieting" which, lets be honest, is exactly what the ND is can be pretty unhealthy so ease yourself in. Or maybe as an alternative therapy try looking at caloric intake over a 7 day period and include some days of fasting..? From fasting you get better lower insulin levels which is great for long term health.
     
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    #3 bulkbiker, Feb 19, 2019 at 10:18 AM
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  4. Spl@

    [email protected] Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Why are you repeating the same basic question.

    Do you not feel the advice is viable. Something you fundamentally disagree with?
     
  5. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The Newcastle diet is, far as I understood it, not a long-term diet you can follow. (8 weeks I think?). It hits you body hard and fast, but for prediabetes you have to be vigilant for more than 8 weeks, of it'll all just get stuck back on when you return to normal eating. LCHF is a lifelong diet you can just keep following, without hunger, deficiencies, and it'll most likely keep you in remission once you've achieved that. If you go for the Newcastle diet, you'd probably have to follow it up with a LCHF diet anyway to stay in remission. So might as well just start there and skip the expensive shakes. I know I enjoy my scrambled eggs with bacon more than I would slush, but that's just me. ;)
     
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  6. charlie000

    charlie000 · Well-Known Member

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    I do not want to fail. I want to cut carbs without question. I don't have any knowledge of high fats, can high fats push up glucose levels?
     
  7. charlie000

    charlie000 · Well-Known Member

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    No mate, someone suggested I post it here to get some advice specific to low carb dieting that's all.
     
  8. charlie000

    charlie000 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi

    I have at the moment gone low carb, but I don't know what a high fat diet would include? I really want to be low carb without fail
     
  9. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Well, honestly, you shouldn't do low carb without adding high fat into the mix...
    I have an info sheet that also explains the fat bit of the diet, I'll post it here, hope it helps!

    There’s a few things you should know.

    1. Practically all carbs turn to glucose once ingested, so not just straight sugars, but starches too. Food doesn’t have to taste sweet to make your blood sugars skyrocket.

    2. A meter helps you know what foods agree with you, and which don’t. Test before and 2 hours after the first bite. If you go up more than 2.0 mmol/l, the meal was carbier than you could handle. (It’s easy to remember, as you’re a T2: all 2’s, all over the place!)

    3. In case you didn’t know already, this isn’t your fault. It’s genetics, medication, decades of bad dietary advice, and basically all manner of things, but nothing you can actually blame yourself for.

    4. Diabetes T2 is a progressive condition, unless you (also) change your diet. So you have options. Diet-only, diet with medication, or medication only. But that last option will most likely mean more medication over the years. (And there is more than just metformin, so if it doesn’t agree with you, there’s lots of others to try). So even if going really low carb isn’t for you, you might consider moderately low carb an option, with meds to assist.

    5. Are you overweight? 90% of T2’s are. Yeah, that means 10% are slim and always were. If you did gain weight, it was the precursor of this metabolic condition. We make loads of insulin, but become insensitive to it. So carbs we eat turn to glucose, and normally, insulin helps us burn that glucose for fuel. When it doesn’t, that glucose is stored in fat cells instead. When those fat stores are full, the glucose remains in our bloodstream, overflowing, into our eyes, tears, urine, saliva… And then we’re T2’s. So weight gain is a symptom, not a cause. This also means that “regular” dietary advice doesn’t work for us. The problem lies in our inability to process carbs. And most diets focus on lowering fats and upping carb intake. Which is the direct opposite of what a T2, or prediabetic, for that matter, needs.

    6. There are 3 macro-nutrients. Fats, protein and carbohydrates. Those macro’s mean we get the micro-nutrients we need: that would be vitamins and minerals. So… If you ditch the carbs, you should up another macro-nutrient to compensate, to make sure you don’t get malnourished or vitamin deficient. Carbs make our blood sugars rise. Protein too, but nowhere near as bad as carbs do, so they’re alright in moderation. Fats however… Fats are as good as a glucose-flatline. Better yet, they’ll mitigate the effects of any carbs we do ingest, slowing down their uptake and thus the sugar-spike. Contrary to what we’ve been told for decades; fats are our friends.

    7. Worried about cholesterol? On a low carb diet, your cholesterol may rise a little as you start to lose weight. That’s a good thing though. (Believe it or not). What was already there, stored in your body, is starting to head for the exit, and for that it’ll go into your bloodstream first. So when you have lost weight and it stabilises, so will your cholesterol. And it’ll probably be lower than what it was before you started out.

    8. You’ll lose weight on a low carb diet. Weight loss will help with your insulin-resistance, and not only that… Going low carb might help with other issues as well, like non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and depression.

    9. Always ask for your test results. You don’t know where you’re going, if you don’t know where you’ve been.

    10. Last, but certainly not least: If you are on medication that has hypoglycemia listed as a side-effect, like Gliclazide for instance, do NOT attempt a LCHF diet without a meter nor your doctors’ knowledge/assistance. You can drop blood glucose levels too far, too fast, if your dosage isn’t adjusted accordingly. This could mean a lower dose in stages or even stopping medication completely. Never do this without discussing it with your doctor first!


    So what raises blood sugars? Aside from the obvious (sugar), starches raise blood glucose too. So bread, and anything made with grain/oats flour, rice, potatoes, pasta, corn, cereals (including all the “healthy choices”, like Weetabix and muesli), most beans and most fruits. So you’ll want to limit your intake, or scratch them altogether.

    Which food items remain on the shopping list? Well, meat, fish, poultry, above ground veggies/leafy greens, eggs, cheese, heavy cream, full fat Greek yoghurt, full fat milk, extra dark chocolate (85% Lindt’s is great!), avocado, (whole) tomatoes, berries, olives, nuts, that sort of thing… Meal ideas? Have a couple:

    Scrambled eggs with bacon, cheese, mushrooms, tomato, maybe some high meat content sausages?
    Eggs with ham, bacon and cheese
    Omelet with spinach and/or smoked salmon
    Omelet with cream, cinnamon, with some berries and coconut shavings
    Full fat Greek yoghurt with nuts and berries
    Leafy green salad with a can of tuna (oil, not brine!), mayonnaise, capers, olives and avocado
    Leafy green salad with (warmed goat's) cheese and bacon, maybe a nice vinaigrette?
    Meat, fish or poultry with veggies. I usually go for cauliflower rice or broccoli rice, with cheese and bacon to bulk it up. Never the same meal twice in a row because of various herbs/spices.


    Snacks? Pork scratchings, cheese, olives, extra dark chocolate, nuts. :)

    Of course, there’s loads more on the web, for people more adventurous than I. (Which is pretty much everyone). Just google whatever you want to make and add “keto” to it, and you’ll get a low carb version. There’s a lot of recipes on the diabetes.co.uk website, as well as on www.dietdoctor.com where you’ll also find visual (carb content) guides and videos. And I can wholeheartedly endorse Dr. Jason Fung’s book The Diabetes Code. It’ll help you understand what’s going on in your body and how to tackle it, whilst not being a dry read. Not only that, but you’ll know what to ask your doctor, and you’ll understand the answers, which is, I believe, quite convenient.
     
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  10. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    No. Well, the only way you could hope for a lower glucose response is to never eat anything ever again :)
     
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  11. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Fats do not raise blood glucose levels, they may temporarily affect lipid values. Healthy fats include the fat in meat and dairy plus fruit oils such as olive oil and coconut oil. Healthy fats are calorie dense but are more satisfying so a lower quantity goes far further in keeping hunger at bay. Protein is also very satiating and is the lowest in calorific value. Carbohydrates give a short, sharp burst of energy but the human body cannot store carbs as they are, they are stored as fat especially around the waistline. Because carbs are so readily digested and metabolised we get hungrier much sooner. Carbs are turned into glucose almost as soon as eaten and it is carbs that raise blood glucose levels.
     
  12. zauberflote

    zauberflote Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Mea culpa!! I suggested Charlie post here because I was sure I’d seen somebody talking about their personal experiences with ND on this corner of the forum. So far, it seems to have been erroneous advice. Charlie, I’m sorry!! chris
     
  13. Caramama4

    Caramama4 Type 2 · Member

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    Great advice here.
     
  14. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Totally agree. :)
     
  15. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I am just about certain that eating low calorie 'balanced' diets never did me any good, as I would become deathly pale, feeble and fainting.
    On the daily maximum of 50 gm of carbs I ate to put my blood glucose right, I never even noticed the loss of weight until my clothes started falling off. LCHF has always been so easy to do, and although I have not lost weight recently, I am still changing shape, my waist keeps shrinking down so I need to get new clothes or make new ones. I think that is why people are 'pushing' LCHF - it can be adjusted easily, and it is something many find they can stick to for the foreseeable future without strain or anxiety.
     
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  16. Confused by differing advice

    Confused by differing advice · Active Member

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  17. Confused by differing advice

    Confused by differing advice · Active Member

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    I am following a low carb and low calorie diet. I’m not diabetic but my father was and I’m supporting my husband in losing weight as he is also a type 2 diabetic. I’ve been following the blood sugar diet (800-900 calories) since Christmas except I can’t digest a lot of fatty foods so I do tend to buy lower fat versions of things like yogurt and cheese. I know this goes against the theory that fat makes you feel full but I don’t have another option. I’ve lost ten pounds in two months and can’t really say I’ve felt hangry after the first couple of days. I’m 5’7” and weigh 166lbs. I would like to have a BMI of 25 or less so have about another 14lbs to lose. Two years ago I weighed 242lbs and I’ve lost a lot of weight by eating a low fat diet due to problems with my gallbladder. Once you plan what you can eat on a low carb diet it’s fairly easy. I keep it simple. Husband is a fussy eater who likes his food plain. Salads with chicken, fish or steak for lunch and dinner. Yogurt and fruit or eggs, bacon, tomatoes and mushrooms for breakfast. I have about 5 or 6 things I cook when I’ve more time: Pilaff and Biryani made with cauliflower ‘rice’, beef chilli, beef ragu and a chicken leek and mushroom dish in creme fraiche both served with pea pasta. A low carb ‘ploughmans’ of ham, cheese, apple, chutney, and nuts is a useful standby.
    I find eating out is problematic and invariably end up with some sort of salad or we go to a carvery and fill up on various vegetables with roast meat (no Yorkshire pudding or potatoes of course). Husband is delighted with his weightloss and his blood sugars readings have dropped dramatically. We both feel well and healthy.
    Im not keen on the idea of meal replacements as I feel it’s healthier to use ‘real’ food. If I were you I’d take a look at the blood sugar diet as it is low carb and low calorie. Good luck!
     
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  18. JUNE56

    JUNE56 Type 2 · Member

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    I'm unsure about the high fat part of the diet. I do have a history of heart problems and am worried about the effect of high fat on my heart.
     
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  19. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    The high fat is to supply energy as the body is pushed out of using glucose and into burning fat - it is like having a car which can switch between different fuels, when the batteries run low you can nip into a garage and fill up on petrol.
    I do not push the high fat part of the diet - I have a bottle of olive oil in the cupboard, but most often use the fat which comes with the meat, so I cooked the mushrooms with the pork chops I did the other evening, for instance.
    I have eaten this way for a very long time - when I could get away with it. When I could not, and was eating low fat to reduce cholesterol - my test results never showed a reduction. After diagnosis with type two my numbers went down and were called a delayed reaction by the nurse. Yeah right.
    My blood pressure has always been excellent - I have had people going out to get a different machine because they did not believe that theirs was not giving a false reading. With my diet they expected problems, there never have been.
     
  20. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    Take a look at this thread. Even if you don’t go to all the links you’ll still learn a lot

    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/cholesterol-and-statins.156985/

    Short story is fats don’t cause high cholesterol. Neither fats nor high cholesterol cause heart disease. Inflammation does and high carbs, high blood glucose and excess weight all contribute to that.
     
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