Type 2 Lower BG Readings - When?

[FranOnTheEdge]

In order to come off metformin (need to get doctorial permission, I do understand that,) you need to get your BG readings low-ish, right? into more normal levels, yes?
So that means loosing the weight.
(I also know that this might not work at all, and I might therefore be on drugs forever, sigh.)
So, what I wanted to know was, how much weight loss would actually (maybe) help to affect my BG levels?
Is it 10% of your starting weight? (of your highest weight, that is) or of your weight when diagnosed?
Or is it not 10%, but purely random?
Is the speed of your weight loss going to help?
I'm thinking about that 8 week Blood Sugar Diet, here. Since so far it's taking a long, long time for me to loose weight, and some weeks I gain a little or stay the same and then 3 or so weeks later I loose another couple of pounds... it's so long drawn out, it's boring me silly!
So I thought I'd ask you guys... and girls...

 

[SunnyExpat]

I lost about a quarter of my weight, and hit normal levels. There has been a spate of discussions about this recently. Fast weight loss ie, severe calorie restriction, does seem to have better results than slow. Look at the Newcastle Diet as well.
But many think metformin is beneficial in it's own right, and continue with it.

 

[Finsky]

What I understand from reading many sources that it is thought that we all have our individual fat threshold...when diabetic symptoms kick in. So thinking it other way round...you would have find your individual 'fat threshold' when your body will start functioning better again...and get bellow that..and maintain that level
Not easy...

ETA: I don't think it is case of 'how much' but from where. I started see some shift in my readings after 2 weeks doing LCHF diet...and things started drastically change after 4 weeks. At that point I had only lost couple pounds of weight...but maybe that loss came off from right places...did I start to clear my internal organs?? Maybe it was just enough to get system functioning better.
My target always was about blood sugars rather than weight loss..though each and every lost pound is bonus I do marvel, like a miracle!

Do you know how much carbohydrates you do eat on each meal/day?

 

[FranOnTheEdge]

What I understand from reading many sources that it is thought that we all have our individual fat threshold...when diabetic symptoms kick in. So thinking it other way round...you would have find your individual 'fat threshold' when your body will start functioning better again...and get bellow that..and maintain that level
Not easy...

ETA: I don't think it is case of 'how much' but from where. I started see some shift in my readings after 2 weeks doing LCHF diet...and things started drastically change after 4 weeks. At that point I had only lost couple pounds of weight...but maybe that loss came off from right places...did I start to clear my internal organs?? Maybe it was just enough to get system functioning better.
My target always was about blood sugars rather than weight loss..though each and every lost pound is bonus I do marvel, like a miracle!

Do you know how much carbohydrates you do eat on each meal/day?

I do write down what I eat, look at all the labels and I'm still in the early stages of testing (although I'll need more strips soon,) it's a balance of finding food that doesn't raise the BG levels too high and yet gets closest to making me feel not so hungry, that's the hardest part.
I don't like that way that metformin gives you the squits unexpectedly, so for me the sooner I can get off them the better, plus if that means I loose weight at the same time it'd be a major miracle, I'm liking that part very much, husband won't when he has to buy me a whole new wardrobe, but heigh-ho.
I had heard that faster weight loss meant you put it back on again, which I didn't like the sound of.
Having Arthritis means there isn't much exercise I can do, so cutting things out of my diet seems to be the only way - doing that faster, would be less of a strain mentally I think.

Thinking about food all the time makes you feel even hungrier, not having to think about it would mean I could get back to creating art, and when I'm doing that I don't think about food at all - it's lovely!

 

[FranOnTheEdge]

I lost about a quarter of my weight, and hit normal levels. There has been a spate of discussions about this recently. Fast weight loss ie, severe calorie restriction, does seem to have better results than slow. Look at the Newcastle Diet as well.
But many think metformin is beneficial in it's own right, and continue with it.

A quarter? That's helpful. Maybe another couple of stones until I can hope for any improvements then... thanks, that gives me hope at least.

 

[SunnyExpat]

I do write down what I eat, look at all the labels and I'm still in the early stages of testing (although I'll need more strips soon,) it's a balance of finding food that doesn't raise the BG levels too high and yet gets closest to making me feel not so hungry, that's the hardest part.
I don't like that way that metformin gives you the squits unexpectedly, so for me the sooner I can get off them the better, plus if that means I loose weight at the same time it'd be a major miracle, I'm liking that part very much, husband won't when he has to buy me a whole new wardrobe, but heigh-ho.
I had heard that faster weight loss meant you put it back on again, which I didn't like the sound of.
Having Arthritis means there isn't much exercise I can do, so cutting things out of my diet seems to be the only way - doing that faster, would be less of a strain mentally I think.

Thinking about food all the time makes you feel even hungrier, not having to think about it would mean I could get back to creating art, and when I'm doing that I don't think about food at all - it's lovely!

Meformin tends to be predicable or many, after you get used to them, there seem to be no more side effects.
Dietary changes also affect your digestive process, the initial high fat can often 'lubricate' passage through, particularly with high fat.
It is a myth that losing weight quickly means you gain weight quickly.
There is no biological reason at all.
That comes from a mindset where it's a quick diet, and intended to be, then resuming your old life afterwards.
The very low calorie diets mentioned on here are the start of a lifestyle change, you need it as part of a plan for eating afterwards, for life. I initially started on low calorie, but had no intention of going back to my previous bad diet. More mediterranean style after, and now my weight is fairly stable.
I still have difficulty with the temptation to overeat, but it is much easier with the knowledge that I can set my mind to it, and survived for weeks on a very low calorie diet, so for me it gave me the ability to ignore food, that I may not have had previously, and don't simply snack for the sake of it, or eat junk food anymore.

 

[FranOnTheEdge]

Meformin tends to be predicable or many, after you get used to them, there seem to be no more side effects.
Dietary changes also affect your digestive process, the initial high fat can often 'lubricate' passage through, particularly with high fat.
It is a myth that losing weight quickly means you gain weight quickly.
There is no biological reason at all.
That comes from a mindset where it's a quick diet, and intended to be, then resuming your old life afterwards.
The very low calorie diets mentioned on here are the start of a lifestyle change, you need it as part of a plan for eating afterwards, for life. I initially started on low calorie, but had no intention of going back to my previous bad diet. More mediterranean style after, and now my weight is fairly stable.
I still have difficulty with the temptation to overeat, but it is much easier with the knowledge that I can set my mind to it, and survived for weeks on a very low calorie diet, so for me it gave me the ability to ignore food, that I may not have had previously, and don't simply snack for the sake of it, or eat junk food anymore.

Definitely the Metformin, not High Fat, because I haven't gone over to that yet, only just sent a letter to my doctor about it.

I have no intention of 'resuming my old life afterwards', I have already switched my brain over to the idea of total lifestyle change. But I both like and dread the idea of an 8 week faster diet to get things going - i.e. me lighter - faster. I'm not liking the idea of my inner organs struggling with insulin, so the idea of reducing things quickly, from that point of view, is to me, hopeful. Then I'd revert to either the Slimming World diet (but low carb) or the LCHF diet, where the word 'diet' means what you eat normally. At the moment the LCHF one is the more attractive to me. But then I haven't tried that one yet.

 

[SunnyExpat]

Definitely the Metformin, not High Fat, because I haven't gone over to that yet, only just sent a letter to my doctor about it.

I have no intention of 'resuming my old life afterwards', I have already switched my brain over to the idea of total lifestyle change. But I both like and dread the idea of an 8 week faster diet to get things going - i.e. me lighter - faster. I'm not liking the idea of my inner organs struggling with insulin, so the idea of reducing things quickly, from that point of view, is to me, hopeful. Then I'd revert to either the Slimming World diet (but low carb) or the LCHF diet, where the word 'diet' means what you eat normally. At the moment the LCHF one is the more attractive to me. But then I haven't tried that one yet.

Oh, I didn't mean you, when I said 'mindset', it's just it's often bandied around, along with 'yo-yo dieter' which obviously no one on this website is, diet means lifestyle to all of us, sorry if it read differently.

 

[Patricia21]

Im a thin T2 and struggle to maintain my weight on the low carb way of eating,but my BS levels went down in a fortnight.
All the best.

 

[BeccyB]

I'm liking that part very much, husband won't when he has to buy me a whole new wardrobe, but heigh-ho.

If you lose enough weight to need a whole new wardrobe then your hubbie should acknowledge you deserve it for all the hard work and set you free with his credit card

 

[bulkbiker]

Have you actually tried a very low carb higher fat diet yet Fran?
I found my sugars levels dropped dramatically when I did this. Also because of the fat content I felt fuller for longer so didn't get the urge to snack. I now feel completely in control of what I eat and can fast easily. For example I last ate on tuesday evening and may have something tonight. I gave up metformin on my own after 3 weeks of trying it.
What are your current readings doing?

 

[Totto]

@FranOnTheEdge you don't need anybody's permission to come off medicines, it's entirely you own choice whether to take them or not.

But if you want to lose weight and keep your BG normal I'd recommend strict LCHF, that is with the high fat bit included to keep you full. You could do a bit of intermittent fasting if it feels good too.

 

[andcol]

If you look in my signature there is a link to my first 3 months. The is a graph on there where you can see the 15% point work for me in tightening up the fasting values but I got normal fastings much earlier than that. Interestingly my BP normalised at this point to.

in case you are on mobile/table platform and cant see the signature http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/got-my-first-3-month-hba1c-results-this-morning.55719/

 

[FranOnTheEdge]

Have you actually tried a very low carb higher fat diet yet Fran?

I found my sugars levels dropped dramatically when I did this. Also because of the fat content I felt fuller for longer so didn't get the urge to snack. I now feel completely in control of what I eat and can fast easily. For example I last ate on tuesday evening and may have something tonight. I gave up metformin on my own after 3 weeks of trying it.

What are your current readings doing?

No, I'm afraid I haven't tried the Hi Fat/Low Carb diet yet. (written letter to Doc about it though.) But now I'm wondering about the 8 week Blood Sugar diet as well...

I've now changed from Wholemeal toast in the morning to LowCarb toast in the morning - so that's halved that. (and sometimes I have eggs, toms, asparagus, mushrooms and courgettes instead).
I have gone back to using real strong cheddar instead of no fat/low fat cheese, but I'm using up some no fat cottage cheese I have left, so having that WITH cheddar, is that bad?
I've not had any baked potatoes or made anything with red kidney beans since I discovered they were hi carb..., no chips (even those made in the AirFryer) basmati rice less often, the pasta will just have to stay in the cupboard... sigh.
I've given up the Tunnocks dark choc wafer bars and switched to Slimming World HiFi bars - it'll probably turn out those are bad.... sigh.

I eat more green veg now - or at least until I can't stand it any more…

My readings are I feel quite high, so I think I'll stay on the Metformin until I can get them down lower. (But not as high as they were after eating nearly a whole punnet of grapes!!!)
I've found Cherries are better.

Is brown rice better than white rice? Enough to make it worth while? What about wild rice? What about red Carmargue rice? (I haven't seen that one for a while, I'll check it out if I can find it in Sainsburys).

I've heard barley is lower carb than other grains, I think I heard that... somewhere.

 

[FranOnTheEdge]

@FranOnTheEdge you don't need anybody's permission to come off medicines, it's entirely you own choice whether to take them or not.

But if you want to lose weight and keep your BG normal I'd recommend strict LCHF, that is with the high fat bit included to keep you full. You could do a bit of intermittent fasting if it feels good too.

Alright, 'advice' then. Lol.

 

[bulkbiker]

No, I'm afraid I haven't tried the Hi Fat/Low Carb diet yet. (written letter to Doc about it though.) But now I'm wondering about the 8 week Blood Sugar diet as well...

Hmm well unless you have a very enlightened GP you are unlikely to get positive advice from him/her on the LCHF diet as it is not the NICE recommended one. However if you take a look at the success stories on the forum you will find lots of positive things about it. So many people here have really been helped by following the diet and you may well be one too. Bread, rice pasta of whatever kind are very unlikely to help either your blood sugar readings or your weight loss. You may well see very positive results after a couple of weeks of LCHF. Don't you think it's worth giving it a real go?

 

[Robbity]

My glucose levels went down dramatically in the first three months after diagnosis. before I lost any weight, just by cutting out sugars, and then cutting right down on all carbs - and prior to learning about "proper" low carbing. I did lose a fair bit of weight (about 1/3 of what GP suggested) when I went on a very low carb (and higher fat) diet initially, but then my weight stalled and has been stable for the last 18 months or so, but my glucose levels continued to go down for several months more, and now they're hovering at the lower end of pre-diabetic levels. So for me it's been almost entirely my improved diet that has been the reason for the greatest reductions in my levels. I'm still on (and enjoying) on a very low carb/ketogenic diet, and I intend to keep to this as a permanent lifestyle change. So I feel that LCHF is certainlyworth a try.

Robbity

 

[PenfoldAPD]

Agree with @bulkbiker you have to commit to #LCHF and try it - it doesn't require (imho) permission from your doctor. In 10 weeks it reduced my HbA1c from 9.9 to 6.7. Doc approved, said my results were fantastic. Honestly - it really isn't that hard. Just get educated, learn what is good for your body and you will see results. Dump the rice, dump the bread - personally better blood results and good health rate high than a 'fix' on carbs. Don't eat low fat cheese.

This is just my opinion, and maybe I sound harsh - but once you get into LCHF lifestyle (it's not a diet, you need to change your eating habits for good) you will start to see the results and be happier

 

[FranOnTheEdge]

Folks, I already decided (in December last year) to change my lifestyle, in terms of diet. Not A diet, but one's diet meaning what we eat normally. That's why I joined Slimming World. Then I found this place and got very confused. So I'm of the mindset to changing lifestyle - I just thought I'd already been there, done that, got no T-shirt. I'm hesitant because of all the different diets around here, there's this LC/HF one, there's the 8 week BS Diet, I've heard of a Newcastle diet too, who knows how many more there are? So you can see why I want to get this right, I don't want to start one diet and then start to think that another one would be better.
What's principally concerning me at the moment, is how long it's taken from diagnosis to today, and almost NOTHING at all has happened in terms of information coming out to me from the NHS, I've had cosy little chats with a diabetic nurse, and didn't get anything like the info I've got from here in just a week or two. I'm booked to take a DESMOND course, but it doesn't start until MAY for goodness sake.

I also hear people talk about their previously high Hb1Ac (or whatever it is) of 94, or 79, and mine was 118 at diagnosis!!! That feels incredibly high in comparrison, so much so that it's scaring me. I'm therefore wondering how much time have I got left to make enough of a change to really matter, should I be trying to do the 8 Week BS Diet, so as to do things fast, before it's too late and I get some sort of organ damage (If I haven't already got some) - or a foot drops off, or...
Or will the LC/HF one done over a much longer time span be enough?

At the moment I'm in a kind of limbo, leaning towards HF/LC but not really committing to it, thinking about the 8 Week one but uncertain if I could manage that one, and not knowing if it's necessary, so I'm havering madly here.

 

[SunnyExpat]

Folks, I already decided (in December last year) to change my lifestyle, in terms of diet. Not A diet, but one's diet meaning what we eat normally. That's why I joined Slimming World. Then I found this place and got very confused. So I'm of the mindset to changing lifestyle - I just thought I'd already been there, done that, got no T-shirt. I'm hesitant because of all the different diets around here, there's this LC/HF one, there's the 8 week BS Diet, I've heard of a Newcastle diet too, who knows how many more there are? So you can see why I want to get this right, I don't want to start one diet and then start to think that another one would be better.
What's principally concerning me at the moment, is how long it's taken from diagnosis to today, and almost NOTHING at all has happened in terms of information coming out to me from the NHS, I've had cosy little chats with a diabetic nurse, and didn't get anything like the info I've got from here in just a week or two. I'm booked to take a DESMOND course, but it doesn't start until MAY for goodness sake.

I also hear people talk about their previously high Hb1Ac (or whatever it is) of 94, or 79, and mine was 118 at diagnosis!!! That feels incredibly high in comparrison, so much so that it's scaring me. I'm therefore wondering how much time have I got left to make enough of a change to really matter, should I be trying to do the 8 Week BS Diet, so as to do things fast, before it's too late and I get some sort of organ damage (If I haven't already got some) - or a foot drops off, or...
Or will the LC/HF one done over a much longer time span be enough?

At the moment I'm in a kind of limbo, leaning towards HF/LC but not really committing to it, thinking about the 8 Week one but uncertain if I could manage that one, and not knowing if it's necessary, so I'm havering madly here.

No matter what you choose, it has to be your choice, and you have to commit to it.
So, first, choose something you believe you can commit to, not what others are most vocal about, becaue it suits them.
LCHF seems to be a choice for life. Choose a food group, eat as much as you feel like. But you need to continue with that choice for life.
Newcastle Diet, initially a severe restriction, with about a 50/50 possibility you may be able to 'reverse' diabetes then eat a sensible diet of your choice.
Mediterranean diet, good results, and a variety of food to choose from. Monitoring is ongoing throughout.
But it has to be your choice, and you need to stick with it, at least for an initial period, and ride out any highs and lows.