Mastering Diabetes

[ShelleyDubs]

Hi all, does anyone follow a plant based approach? Looking for any anecdotes. Specifically about increased numbers from higher carbs over time. Many thanks.

 

[EllieM]

Hi all, does anyone follow a plant based approach? Looking for any anecdotes. Specifically about increased numbers from higher carbs over time. Many thanks.

Hi @ShelleyDubs
Am I correct in thinking that you are (recently?) diagnosed LADA? SO you are talking about using plant based to treat T1 and not T2?
(It might help if you change your diagnosis type in your profile if this is the case.)

Many T1s have more freedom in their dietary choices than non medicated low carbers, though I guess it depends a bit on whether you are taking insulin yet?

I don't personally use the MD plant based approach but am interested in it as a possible WOE (way of eating). I believe that @Marie 2 might be able to help?

 

[ShelleyDubs]

Yes, LADA and on insulin (misdiagnosed T2 previously). I’m interested in this WOE, too. Hoping someone can share their experiences. If I start it, I’ll share mine too.
Can’t change my type label in the phone app. A little annoying, but not vital I guess. ‍

 

[Marie 2]

Hi @ShelleyDubs Are you a type 1? I am a type 1 of 19 years and have been a vegetarian for 54 years and a vegan for 37 years. I thrive on a vegan diet and I eat what I want as long as it's vegan. My A1c right now is 30 with a TIR of 96%. My hubby is/was a type 2 and a vegetarian. I noticed the title is Mastering Diabetes, which is the name of a specific program of eating vegan low fat. I don't do that but I do know a few people that do and they have been very successful at it.

So it would help with a little more information from you?

 

[Marie 2]

Your answer must have showed up when I was writing mine.
I was misdiagnosed for over 8 years.

Mastering Diabetes is low fat and makes you much more insulin sensitive. I think your adjustments at first might be different depending what diet you are changing from? But one friend that has been doing it for a while eats about 280 carbs a day and uses a total of around 22 units of insulin per day.

 

[EllieM]

Can’t change my type label in the phone app. A little annoying, but not vital I guess. ‍

Agreed, not vital, though you'll keep getting incorrect advice if you don't change it. If I go to
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/
using my phone browser (ie not the app) I can change my type by clicking on my avatar picture on the top right of the page, then clicking on "personal details" just below the green post button and Your profile page.

If you scroll down the new page you eventually get "Type of diabetes" (scroll down the options for this and choose T1 from the top of the list or or LADA from further down) and "treatment type" as insulin. There is a "save changes" at the bottom of the page in green.

 

[In Response]

I worry about books/programs/methos entitled "Mastering Diabetes' or "Controlling Diabetes".
There are so many things that affect our blood sugars that it will always find a way to throw a spanner in the works of perfection. So attempting to Master diabetes all the time will lead to failure, disappointment and potentially burn out.
We are all different but to avoid this, I recommend making sure Mastering Diabetes' does not take over your life - we are all far more than just people with diabetes - and do not be alarmed when your levels are higher or lower than you want

 

[Marie 2]

@In Response Mastering Diabetes is a popular program here in the US and a way of eating for type 1's and type 2's. It was started by a type 1 diabetic doctor and an MPH and has been very successful. It is a vegan low fat food diet. I know a few people that have been happy following it as a way of eating. I agree things shouldn't take over our life and different things work for different people, but it is just a choice of a way of eating.

 

[In Response]

@Marie 2 I have no problem with the program and am really pleased that it works.
My problem is only with the title which suggests perfection like books entitles "Controlling Diabetes".

 

[Mbaker]

Just to provide accuracy. The claim the mastering diabetes program improves insulin sensitivity is not proven, and or if accurate might be the exercise component (which is proven to improve insulin sensitivity) - it is stated by the creators, one of whom considers it normal to spike to circa 175 mg/dl (9.7 mmol/L).

Both Cyrus and Robbie (the founders) have been debated by Paul Salindo and did not fare too well under scrutiny (in my opinion), there are also comments from Bart Kay recently which are worth a view. The mastering diabetes program is good that is promotes a wholefood plant based diet (I have not seen any fake burgers etc), but does not show what biomarkers are doing, muscle mass, cognition, and nutrition (and from my perspective the portion sizes are too small, so just another calorie restriction diet). In addition it has an exercise component which in of itself is a major lever overlooked.

When I tried some whole food plant based WOE I was influenced by Dr Gabriel Cousens, one of the only Vegan Dr I know who recognises that those with diabetes should consider non-starchy versions of what he preaches.

 

[Marie 2]

@Mbaker I know type 1's that follow the Mastering Diabetes program and they ended up reducing their insulin needs while eating more carbs. One of them that used to follow the Bernstein diet and switched to Mastering Diabetes for health reasons and she now eats 280 carbs a day on just a total of 22 units of insulin. Obviously not small portions and she is only 5.2'' and weighs 115. On the low carb diet she used a total of 20 units and was very low carb (under 30 carbs a day) as she had been an avid follower of Bernstein for many years. Another person has also doubled his carb intake and lessened his insulin needs and ratios, he now eats some meat but stays under the recommended fat allowance. I know a few others that follow it, but I don't know specifics, but the people that successfully stayed on it have all said it helped their insulin sensitivity. Some people are not successful at trying it, we are obviously all different. I do not follow the diet, but I am a vegan and I know if I eat very low fat for the day, I need less insulin than the days I eat higher fat. The higher fat days will even carry over to the next days insulin dosing.

 

[Marie 2]

@In Response I think the title of their program is to grab attention................but you are right in that titles like that do infer that you have to have the "perfect control" which is going to just stress us all out. I enjoy my days off of a non CGM day lol, once month or so? While I am still checking probably every hour or two half the time of what my BG levels are at, as I can't stand not completely knowing, and I am used to knowing............it gives me a break from seeing it 24/7 and feels like a vacation.

 

[Mbaker]

@Mbaker I know type 1's that follow the Mastering Diabetes program and they ended up reducing their insulin needs while eating more carbs. One of them that used to follow the Bernstein diet and switched to Mastering Diabetes for health reasons and she now eats 280 carbs a day on just a total of 22 units of insulin. Obviously not small portions and she is only 5.2'' and weighs 115. On the low carb diet she used a total of 20 units and was very low carb as she had been an avid follower of Bernstein for many years. Another person has also doubled his carb intake and lessened his insulin needs and ratios, he now eats some meat but stays under the recommended fat allowance. I know a few others that follow it, but I don't know specifics, but the people that successfully stayed on it have all said it helped their insulin sensitivity. Some people are not successful at trying it, we are obviously all different. I do not follow the diet, but I am a vegan and I know if I eat very low fat for the day, I need less insulin than the days I eat higher fat. The higher fat days will even carry over to the next days insulin dosing.

I tend to look at what happens in the vast majority....as an example on this website, that try thr proposed method. It tends not to work both via the results and using rationale that dosing with sugar for a sugar disease in the case of Type 2 doesn't make sense.

Your examples are for Tupe 1. It's the transparency that is lacking, where are the numbers. The anecdotes I don't entirely believe, meat does not cause more blood sugar requirements than carbs. Maybe those who are getting some success have swapped out other higher glucose items, but it is a stretch that for example potato or banana causes less requirement for insulin than steak or Greek yogurt - something else is going on.

 

[Marie 2]

@Mbaker Sigh…This is a post by a type 1 for a type 1. I am a type 1 and I talked about it in regards to a type 1.

 

[Daibell]

Hi. I question having a low-fat diet? As you need to keep the carbs under control, even if T1 to avoid weight gain, you need a sensible amount of both Fats and Proteins.

 

[Antje77]

As you need to keep the carbs under control, even if T1 to avoid weight gain

Not all T1's need to keep an eye on the carbs to avoid weight gain.

 

[EllieM]

Hi. I question having a low-fat diet? As you need to keep the carbs under control, even if T1 to avoid weight gain, you need a sensible amount of both Fats and Proteins.

I'm not sure I agree with that. For those of us who tend towards insulin resistance, and weight gain, yes maybe, but there seem to be plenty of thin T1s out there who don't have this issue. I am quite ready to believe that different metabolisms may be suited to diffferent diets.

 

[Mbaker]

@Mbaker Sigh…This is a post by a type 1 for a type 1. I am a type 1 and I talked about it in regards to a type 1.

I understand your position and you do not come across as dogmatic. I support your freedom to choose. The program is for both Type 1 and Type 2's, so when the claims are made it is legitimate to state the other side and where the founders are on film record and willfully say things that are contra-indicated this should be common knowledge.

I do not believe this program should get unfettered / vetted free advertising when it clearly has questions around it.

I do believe detail is important when claims are made, You could test if my claims are accurate by watching the Saladino video to see if Cyrus and Robbie are credible, There is a Type 2 who often posts about the program and his results are not inline with those you have mentioned for the Type 1's, I would say uncontrolled diabetes. Virta health and Eric Westman have published results and metrics to go with their claims. When Neal Barnard published his RCT the results settled at around a 7.4 ish A1c and on the way up, for those with Type 2 diabetes. This is inline with what I would expect for a similar eating pattern with no exercise confounding the results (but again no further metrics supplied). I am not saying no one should look at the program, just putting what is in the public domain about it.

 

[Marie 2]

BTW @Mbaker
But I already know the results work of Mastering Diabetes for type 1's because I know type 1's that do it. I have also watched some of their videos, I have read up on their reasoning and find it very pertinent for either diabetic types. Their logic falls in line with the majority of people in the Health Food industry which I was involved with for many years. But I also understand there are many ways that can work for different people to control their Diabetes. We can all be very different and some people are just more willing to follow certain WOE. I would not follow Mastering Diabetes myself as I love my avocados and nuts too much, and I have no reason to change what I do.

For me being a vegan, I have an A1c of 30 with a TIR right now of 96% between 3.7 to 8.9. I take no other medication other than insulin and am considered in good health. My blood work is fantastic. I do have a bad back because of a car accident and then a fall on stairs. I have no reason to pursue any other diet as I firmly believe being a vegan is healthier. The proof to me is my family, my grandparents, my parents and my brother all died from heart issues, my sisters have heart issues and I don't have any signs of any of it. I do assume it's probably in my future at some point, but I can hope it's not. The difference is I have been a vegetarian for 54 years and a vegan for 37 years.

And yes, as in the case I pointed out with my type 1 friend and I just clarified with her, following the Bernstein Diet she went from under 30 carbs a day and 20 units of insulin to on the Mastering Diabetes Program, 280 carbs a day and she only needs 22 units of insulin. She switched from a meat low carb diet because she ended up needing heart stents and she blamed it on her low carb diet. She loves bananas and potatoes. So yes the bananas and the potatoes obviously ended up needing less insulin for more carbs than the steak and Greek yogurt and everything that went with the low carb diet for her. She has an A1c of 29 and has a TIR of 93%.

So yes I think the Mastering Diabetes program works.

 

[Marie 2]

BTW @Mbaker You do realize Paul Saladino that you mention to listen to, his latest "kick" is he is now promoting eating 150-200 carbs of fruit a day?