And that's fine but it is just that.. your opinion.. it's not mine and it seems that it doesn't represent quite a few other people's opinions.. so where will this all lead?
And what is PTB please?
This is a discussion. I am stating my opinion, and my reasons for my opinion. Others are doing the same. The results of all this discussion are up to the mods and PTB.
My guess ? Powers That Be i.e. AdminAnd what is PTB please?
Ah right.. thanks for that..My guess ? Powers That Be i.e. Admin
Geoff
PTB - Powers that Be - the ones in charge of the site content on here.And that's fine but it is just that.. your opinion.. it's not mine and it seems that it doesn't represent quite a few other people's opinions.. so where will this all lead?
And what is PTB please?
Sure.I'm really grateful for this thread and a few others we have had over recent months. I think although emotions can run high, it's a good idea to take a step back and look at how we are doing and how we can improve things for each other and new members.
I like the post about being the change you want to see, even if you are a lone voice you maybe what is needed.
However, by posting this: "We suggest you fast for 24 hours, and use that time to google low carb diets, implementing the changes to your diet on recommencing eating. " for an initial post for newbies, that is exactly what you are suggesting should happen in the future.
I think @lucylocket61 has brought some thought provoking items to a riveting discussion, which reminds me of say low cal vs low carb for Type 2 potential reversal. It got me thinking about the advice I put forward...and I have found I have been a bit more self regulatory (I think) over time - often saying something like "if you want further advice just ask", when really I am chomping at the bit to give all the what I consider route 1 advice that took me around a year to gain.
I respect the OP's view, but if push came to shove would have to say I disagree mildly for those with a lower diagnosed HbA1c's, say a just above pre-diabetic, but I strongly disagree for those with an initial HbA1c of say what I had at 134. This felt like death was imminent and that I had weeks or days to exist. I recall massive brain fog, tingling sensations, continual toilet use and poor eye sight - I needed low carb etc advice immediately, which is why is disagree with the OP.
One size does not fit all, but I think for the majority of Type 2's many on this site could say for drinks some options are water, teas, coffee (but be careful if you have high blood pressure) are ok. And for food if you are not vegetarian or vegan, you could chose from any selection of meat, fish, salad, above ground vegetables, nuts, dairy and berries perhaps in moderation. If you take breakfast, bacon, eggs or any type, tomatoes and mushrooms could be a good place to start, or nuts, some berries and greek yogurt. For those who are vegan and vegetarian other examples could be given. Spices and condiments can be used, but if you have high blood pressure watch the salt intake. For me this type of advice would have saved a year of in my opinion Eatwell counter intuitive advice for Type 2's, I can't see what harm this would cause to someone with effectively glucose intolerance as a start (and like me was having poor outcomes), especially compared with the standard food which does not make diabetes better. There's enough initial choice for those like me who did not have a clue, and if you can't tolerate diary or berries then take another option.
I would like to see Daisy's advice increased with some basic get me started meal suggestions, for meat / fish eaters, vegans, vegetarians and whole food plant based. In addition information on the Newcastle Diet (and possibly Blood Sugar Diet). If this additional information were given. My experience is that doing LCHF naturally set me up for intermittent fasting and if required Keto, what would be wrong with stating this is possible. I see no problem saying aim for the stars and you might get the moon in terms of diabetes control (if you want to). It is obvious to me Daisy's advice has been well considered and every word / sentence carefully constructed, I would have thought the additional information could be skilfully placed.
For some.Yep I agree , I'm obviously feeling a bit feisty today !
That is what I suggested and yes I agree its kinda radical and is very unlikely for anyone to actually buy into advocating here however I still think its would be a good approach for a newly diagnosed person to adopt. Please bear in mind I am distinguishing those not already on insulin type drugs. I am obviously not talking about anyone who is unfortunate enough to find that their diagnosis comes from a medical emergency either (who will also be on a drug regime at the point they arrive here).
However there are dozens of people just like me, who had a vague feeling something wasn't quite right, or who were surprised to find they suddenly failed a blood test and their doctor blithely told them they would need drugs for the rest of their lives for this progressive disease that would kill them early, or leave them sightless or limbless or both. Many of those left that very first meeting with a prescription or the promise of one within days.
My goal would be to get those people to adopt the diet quickly before they have become submerged in the general obfuscation about drugs and diabetes. For very many of those people they will be led down a drug dependency path and a " slow change" path when both of those will continue to do damage, not just regarding the actual diabetes, but from myriad side effects..
The slower those people are to adopt the necessary changes the more damage they are doing to themselves and actually its worse than it was the day before they were diagnosed, because now not only do they now have high blood sugar, but they also have a bunch of possibly poor advice that may make matters worse to contend with depending on where their searches take them and who their doctor was. ( I am still reeling from my failed date with an NHS specialist diabetes doctor - who told me his FIRST action on giving a diagnosis of diabetes to ALL his patients was to put them on insulin immediately !) .
The evidence regarding the efficacy of restricting carbohydrates in the diet of T2 diabetics is now utterly clear. I appreciate completely that the whole "low carb" debate has been going on for years. However the weight of evidence that has now emerged from not only the success stories posted here, but the data from the low carb program has now reached huge proportions.
My reasons for the 24 hour fast would be :
a) the fact that it might cause a slight increase in dawn blood sugars when blood sugars are already all over the place is most probably immaterial to the figures showing up on any monitor, it does start to lower your circulating insulin immediately.
b) it is a positive "DO something" that makes one feel like there is an immediate to do and its only for 24 hours
c) it focuses the mind to look very seriously at what all the advice says about what foods will be suitable going forward so that you can be very clear that things HAVE to change - no matter who you are , the diagnosis IS a signal that diet MUST change - if you are going to stand any chance of beating it then you HAVE to do something. That something must include getting rid of a lot of things you were eating before, no matter how low carb you choose to go.
When any of us try to help by giving advice " too soon" or "too radical" it is only really because we desperately want people to understand the above. The clearer the guidance given about the underlying truth the better.
People do not resolve T2 with drugs, they do get better from changing diet - that is now utterly clear.
Is that a kind way of sayin..... here we go again!I think this thread has run it's course.
Where do you think this will all lead?
I'd personally like all goodbye threads to be banned/removed. That's what the PM system is for if you feel the need to say goodbye to your friends.Probably to more goodbye threads as either you get your way and those that disagree leave or vice versa.. it just makes the forum weaker to keep bringing up individual dislikes, in my humble opinion, and that is a great shame.
And here we go with the polarising.Probably to more goodbye threads as either you get your way and those that disagree leave or vice versa.. it just makes the forum weaker to keep bringing up individual dislikes, in my humble opinion, and that is a great shame.
I agree. I could have just clicked the tick but I wrote something like this last night and deleted it.Probably to more goodbye threads as either you get your way and those that disagree leave or vice versa.. it just makes the forum weaker to keep bringing up individual dislikes, in my humble opinion, and that is a great shame.
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