New diagnosis

jjraak · May 16, 2021

Liking the reply @Krystyna23040

Does show there IS hope.

So pleased for you,
have read your post about your journey and been most impressed by what you have done.
what a great attitude and result.

And, as you say @bulkbiker SO spot on.

Really throwing petrol on to a bonfire.

Have found the vast majority of so called 'Expert' advise to be so much BS, sadly.

IF the problem was a Nut allergy would the solution REALLY be to add more nuts to your diet..?

When you cut to the Chase, T2D, is a simple problem.
those with T2D do not tolerate carbs that well.

IF too many carbs IS the problem..

It seems to me the simple solution is to REDUCE the Carb intake where possible..

Have to wonder why so many 'helping' us fail to see that ?

KennyA · May 16, 2021

jjraak said:
Hi @KennyA

Just to say yours is the post I've been referring to recently.

That is just SO spot on.

I went the so called "Healthy" options after DX back in aug '18.

Got worse.

Came on here, saw the advice was completely topsy turvy, wondered how on earth the advice for T2D could be so messed up.

Began ignoring the 'Professionals' and listening to real life people, treading the pathway in front of me.

By the time I was fully immersed in the life & diet, I was back to normal BG levels, non diabetic actually and 3 stone lighter.

And all it took WAS to unlearn all the so called "Knowledge" I'd grown up with about what 'Healthy' foods are.

For O/P...Welcome to the forum no one wants to join.

Great advice freely given by those who have been in your shoes.

For me it got simple.
Basically it became,
Real food, cooked by me.

Meat that looks like meat.
Veg that looks like veg
Herbs & spices for flavour
Olive oil
Butter.

Cheese &
Nuts.

No Saint, but that's it, in a nutshell, so to speak

Good luck on your journey.

I am with you on this 100%. Particularly "real food, cooked by me".

JoKalsbeek · May 17, 2021

Michelle135 said:
Hi everyone, hope you are all doing ok. So
I was basically told I had mild diabetes and then an appt would be made with the nurse but over a week on I haven’t heard anything. This is all very new to me and I am reading so much on google due to my lack of knowledge and some of it contradictory. My main query is around what I should be eating - today for breakfast I had 2 x wholemeal toast, didn’t eat lunch then for dinner had a small baked potato with tuna and salad, then a satsuma. I was hungry around 8pm so had 1 weetabix. I check my levels as I ordered a kit of Amazon 2 hours after the weetabix and and another satsuma and it was reading 10.1 - this seems very high ? I am just a little at loss I don’t know what I should be eating and i didn’t think what I had was particularly unhealthy ? Perhaps I have a lot to learn. Any advice would be appreciated thank you.

Toast, fruit, potato, weetabix... None of those will be doing your blood sugars any favors. In spite of the good, healthy nutrients that are in there, so are a lot of carbs... And you have a metabolic condition that means you can't process those. So as good as your food choices may seem, they are far from it, alas... https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/ could help some in figuring out what to eat, so your blood sugars won't rise. But all in all, the advice you've been given so far has been absolutely spot-on... Just joining the chorus here.

You'll be okay. Takes a moment to get the hang of it and unlearn everything you held as truth, but.... It'll get better than this, honest.
Jo

Carl40 · May 17, 2021

bulkbiker said:
Depends on what the result was (don't forget to find out the units too) but if the results were very high (i.e. you are over producing your own insulin) then it would be worth looking at alternative ways of dealing with it than simply shoving yet more insulin in.

Whist that will bring your blood sugars down it won't address the underlying problem.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/c-peptide-test.html

Thanks.. will be giving the results line a call when it opens, sure they can give me the detail and I'll update that here and do some digging

Carl40 · May 17, 2021

Resurgam said:
I have read reports of people stopping not just insulin, but all medication by eating low carb - it was not as fast as for more boring type twos, and some lost a lot of weight as well - though not everyone managed the full monty, some did still need medication, but far less than when diagnosed.

Yeah I've read a few similar stories. Cards on the table though - I like my carbs and would be ok with continuing with my meds providing its not going to do me more harm than good.

My blood sugar levels are great at the moment, very much under control but need to understand this much better to form a decision as to whether to try low carb. Did cut them back a lot but not sure i'd want to reduce them so much for little reward, if that makes sense!

Carl40 · May 17, 2021

Krystyna23040 said:
My experience was exactly the same as yours. 125 hba1c and straight on insulin. If I had been T1 or LADA that would have been absolutely the right treatment, but as a T2 I found that eating low carb worked much better for me than eating carbs and injecting insulin and I was able to completely come off insulin and improve my health.

Like @Resurgam - I have also read reports of other people who have come off insulin and meds - so I am definitely not unique.

As @bulkbiker mentions - giving T2's yet more insulin can be very counterproductive and over time may lead to more problems than it helps - this was definitely my experience over the 4 years I injected insulin while following the standard NHS healthy eating advice.

If you are diagnosed as T2 you are definitely in the right place to get advice that really works - as you have probably realised from reading the very informative replies on this thread.

My one regret is that I did not find this site when first diagnosed. As @KennyA says 'You need to unlearn all the standard NHS healthy eating advice' and this forum is definitely the best place to get good and up to date advice.

Thank you and that sounds amazing - great effort!

This forum is great and its nice to be able to discuss all issues with such a wide range of people... couldn't agree more.

Not sure I've quite got my head around what the long-term negatives are of using insulin vs low carb though!

Carl40 · May 17, 2021

KennyA said:
It's a bit more complicated than that. I have no experience with insulin (or any diabetic medication, for that matter) so I come at it from a different angle. Firstly, I don't think "eat what you like" means the same thing to everyone. As I understand it T1s and insulin using T2s need to take enough insulin to deal with the carbs eaten. More carbs, more insulin. Less carbs, less insulin. There may well be exceptions to this and I am really happy to be corrected.

As a T2 I have almost completely eliminated carbohydrate from my diet so that my insulin resistance isn't a factor. That has meant that my BG is back at a low normal level, my diabetic symptoms have decreased, and I am steadily, slowly, losing body fat. I find I can cope with c.20g carbs/day. In addition, I do know that sugar in any quantity now makes me ill. I could eat more carbs, and I would get away with it - in the sense that it probably wouldn't do me much harm, if this was a one-off and a rare occurrence. By this I mean maybe once every 3 or 4 months. The problem is that I can't guarantee to myself that this wouldn't be the start of having more and more carbs regularly. So far, it hasn't happened. Willpower engaged.

Thanks this is an interesting experience and your understanding of the "eat anything you like" side of things is similar to my understanding - in that, the more carbs, higher the blood sugar, the more insulin you'd need to compensate. This is the approach I've taken so far. Have cut carbs and make reasonable substitutes but not sure i have the inclination to drop carbs out of my diet or reduce them so every meal is different from what I'm used to.

I know to many this may sound like a backwards position but i do need to explore further the longer-term implications of this approach.

I'm really impressed with your willpower - I'll have to dig deep to find it myself if i convince myself its the right approach for me!

bulkbiker · May 17, 2021

Carl40 said:
Thanks.. will be giving the results line a call when it opens, sure they can give me the detail and I'll update that here and do some digging

See if you can register for online test results too.. means you can access whenever it suits you rather than your surgery.
If you are in England they should be able to provide you with it.

JoKalsbeek · May 17, 2021

Carl40 said:
Yeah I've read a few similar stories. Cards on the table though - I like my carbs and would be ok with continuing with my meds providing its not going to do me more harm than good.

My blood sugar levels are great at the moment, very much under control but need to understand this much better to form a decision as to whether to try low carb. Did cut them back a lot but not sure i'd want to reduce them so much for little reward, if that makes sense!

I like my carbs too. They just don't like me anymore. Seriously though, if you keep an eye on your blood sugars, and they remain under 8,5 throughout the day, there'd be no harm having whatever level of carbs your meter tells you you can cope with. But for full disclosure: blood sugars continuously higher than that will do damage that is hard to come back from. Damaging veins and arteries, organs (heart, kidneys, eyes, stomach) and nerves. That means the following complications can occur, and more: heart faillure, kidney failure, blindness, heart disease, necrosis (which'd be followed by amputation of limbs or death), diabetic neuropathy, etc. etc. etc. So it is really important to keep your blood sugars in check, and keep checking them. If you go the diet route, you could possibly halt the progress of T2 entirely, and even backpaddle. If you rely solely on medication, T2 is a progressive condition and it will likely get worse over time, requiring more medication, and still you could be prone to complications in spite of it. That'd impact both quality of life as well as the quantity. You could find a middle-of-the-road solution as you seem to have done so far, between medication and semi-low carbing. Just keep an eye on things every now and again, so you don't wake up 2 years from now with bloods ranging in the 20's, which you never saw coming because you didn't test regularly. It's a bit of a balancing act and sometimes you might have to tweak either diet or dosage, or both. So always be on top of things, and who knows what you can still enjoy without repercussions.

In the end, we're all different, and we each need to find whatever works for us. There's trade-offs to everything. The question is what sacrifices are you willing to make, and which are 100% non-negotiable. Only you can answer that. but it helps to know what consequences some choices are liable to have, I think... Not saying they will for certain. But something to keep in mind when confronted with an all you can eat buffet, for instance.

Carl40 · May 17, 2021

bulkbiker said:
See if you can register for online test results too.. means you can access whenever it suits you rather than your surgery.
If you are in England they should be able to provide you with it.

Will mention that to them. Can do most things online now but don't have permissions to view test results online - may just be a permission needs changing, hope so!

KennyA · May 17, 2021

Carl40 said:
Thanks this is an interesting experience and your understanding of the "eat anything you like" side of things is similar to my understanding - in that, the more carbs, higher the blood sugar, the more insulin you'd need to compensate. This is the approach I've taken so far. Have cut carbs and make reasonable substitutes but not sure i have the inclination to drop carbs out of my diet or reduce them so every meal is different from what I'm used to.

I know to many this may sound like a backwards position but i do need to explore further the longer-term implications of this approach.

I'm really impressed with your willpower - I'll have to dig deep to find it myself if i convince myself its the right approach for me!

Your choice. At least you are making an informed choice.

Carl40 · May 17, 2021

JoKalsbeek said:
I like my carbs too. They just don't like me anymore. Seriously though, if you keep an eye on your blood sugars, and they remain under 8,5 throughout the day, there'd be no harm having whatever level of carbs your meter tells you you can cope with. But for full disclosure: blood sugars continuously higher than that will do damage that is hard to come back from. Damaging veins and arteries, organs (heart, kidneys, eyes, stomach) and nerves. That means the following complications can occur, and more: heart faillure, kidney failure, blindness, heart disease, necrosis (which'd be followed by amputation of limbs or death), diabetic neuropathy, etc. etc. etc. So it is really important to keep your blood sugars in check, and keep checking them. If you go the diet route, you could possibly halt the progress of T2 entirely, and even backpaddle. If you rely solely on medication, T2 is a progressive condition and it will likely get worse over time, requiring more medication, and still you could be prone to complications in spite of it. That'd impact both quality of life as well as the quantity. You could find a middle-of-the-road solution as you seem to have done so far, between medication and semi-low carbing. Just keep an eye on things every now and again, so you don't wake up 2 years from now with bloods ranging in the 20's, which you never saw coming because you didn't test regularly. It's a bit of a balancing act and sometimes you might have to tweak either diet or dosage, or both. So always be on top of things, and who knows what you can still enjoy without repercussions.

In the end, we're all different, and we each need to find whatever works for us. There's trade-offs to everything. The question is what sacrifices are you willing to make, and which are 100% non-negotiable. Only you can answer that. but it helps to know what consequences some choices are liable to have, I think... Not saying they will for certain. But something to keep in mind when confronted with an all you can eat buffet, for instance.

Thanks for this, really informative!

When I did my first test on 29th Jan I was getting 22.4 and had to take 12 units of insulin. Wasn't even that thirsty at the time so god only knows what my levels were pre-diagnosis! Worst I got was a few days later at 29.9. These days I'm averaging between 5 and 7 with the occasional higher and lower reading.

Definitely noting your points about relying solely on meds for this - really fair point, am always adjusting food intake and insulin levels - was advised recently to drop from three metformin a day to two to reduce risk of me going too low.

Cutting out carbs for me would be an absolute last resort and if things start creeping up I'll definitely give it more of a go but for now it seems ok to proceed as I am but as you say - awareness, monitoring are critical.

Carl40 · May 17, 2021

KennyA said:
Your choice. At least you are making an informed choice.

Thanks yeah I think that's the key. Nurse told me about people who pay little interest when they're diagnosed - I'm the opposite - I want to know as much as possible so I can understand the implications of every decision. So valuable to hear the range of views here.

Carl40 · May 17, 2021

bulkbiker said:
Do you happen to know what the c-peptide test result was?

Just got the data - 1580 pmol. Now to find out what that means... bit of googling coming up

bulkbiker · May 17, 2021

Carl40 said:
Just got the data - 1580 pmol. Now to find out what that means... bit of googling coming up

Higher than "normal"

From here https://labs.selfdecode.com/blog/c-peptide/

Had you fasted before the test?

Carl40 · May 17, 2021

bulkbiker said:
Higher than "normal" View attachment 49456
From here https://labs.selfdecode.com/blog/c-peptide/

Had you fasted before the test?

Thank...

This is the dilemma - I don't think so as I was never advised to. Struggling to remember but if memory serves it was an afternoon appointment and I'm certain that unless I was told not to, I would have eaten. Can't imagine going that long without food back in Feb as I was constantly starving!

On that basis, if it wasn't a fasting test then I'm not sure how they can form any clinical judgement on it at all! What's more, I think I was called in the morning asking if I could go in that day rather than it being pre-arranged..

bulkbiker · May 17, 2021

Carl40 said:
Thank...

This is the dilemma - I don't think so as I was never advised to. Struggling to remember but if memory serves it was an afternoon appointment and I'm certain that unless I was told not to, I would have eaten. Can't imagine going that long without food back in Feb as I was constantly starving!

On that basis, if it wasn't a fasting test then I'm not sure how they can form any clinical judgement on it at all! What's more, I think I was called in the morning asking if I could go in that day rather than it being pre-arranged..

Might be worth requesting another in that case..
As you have had one it might be less of a problem.

Carl40 · May 17, 2021

bulkbiker said:
Might be worth requesting another in that case..
As you have had one it might be less of a problem.

Thanks yeah am just contemplating that!

My thinking is that -

Had I been fasting this would be high, had I not been fasting, this would be low, given the values in the data you shared and I've seen online.

They're essentially so different as to render the results meaningless at this point.

Does that make sense?

PS got Vit D data which is unrelated but 25 is a level where its considered deficient, I was at 13... no wonder I was fatigued!

bulkbiker · May 17, 2021

Carl40 said:
Does that make sense?

PS got Vit D data which is unrelated but 25 is a level where its considered deficient, I was at 13... no wonder I was fatigued!

Yes it does indeed.. and that's very low too..the Vit D that is..

Carl40 · May 17, 2021

bulkbiker said:
Yes it does indeed.. and that's very low too..the Vit D that is..

Yeah definitely, think the Vit D is more or less in hand now.. next time I speak with GP/Nurse I'm gonna run the lack of fasting past them and request a second test.

They aren't keen on them though as they have to transport the sample straight to the hospital. Last time the nurse who took the blood had to leave straight away with it...

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