Nurse & Low Carb Diet

[viv1969]

It's really quite simple.
If the eating regime you personally follow is working for you and your 'numbers' are falling, then keep doing what you're doing. Certainly don't tolerate your Dr saying that he/she is going to "have the dietitian talk to you", as if you were some kind of errant child to be corrected.

As for the low carb / high carb / carb carb carb debate...isn't there a seperate section of the forums for that?

 

[cugila]

If they really knew anything we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. Eating more carbs. is the typical mantra from the ADA here too. They don't recognise the glycemic index (it wasn't invented here in the US) so they tell people to just measure their carbs. Problem is the carbs. they recommend are mostly high glycemic - bagels, fruit with syrup, breakfast cereals, pancakes and waffles, crackers, etc. We're already eating more carbs. thanks to all the low fat hysteria. They just took the fat out and put in more high glycemic carbs. Now we'll all be fat and diabetic!

Well Robert.....
I read the info on the ADA site which said, " The ADA uses a food pyramid to illustrate it's Diabetic food guidelines. Carbohydrates and Glycaemic Index are the two main considerations for a healthy Diabetic meal." So to me it clearly doesn't look as if they ignore GI......... :?

I eat a low fat diet. I don't think there is any hysteria around that apart from certain quarters...... There are of course those that advocate eating more fat, well if that is what they want to do......who am I to argue or criticise. Let's hope they are right in their thinking. For many of us a low fat diet is a must because of medical conditions or just personal choice. I am not fat and I am a Diabetic, courtesy of low fat, reduced carbs.........

My low fat diet is made up mostly of natural low fat foods, fresh fruit, fresh veg, sometimes a small portion of cereal, a pancake sometimes, crackers with some full fat strong cheese. I'm not eating more carbs.......I reduced them and my Bg levels are well controlled.

So the idea we should all eat more fat as it's healthy is another issue that has mixed messages, many of which flatly contradict the medical view. We have to make a choice to suit our own lifestyle, tastes, ideas. My view is just eat a well balanced diet which should keep your Cholesterol under control maintain a healthy weight, which is just as important as taking a daily tablet.
If the results are good.....go with it.

 

[hanadr]

You do not HAVE TO do what healthcare professionals tell you.
You are not a captive and you do have free will. If your meter, or theirs, says your BG is right, they you are doing what suits you. Why should you change what works for you?
Hana

 

[cugila]

Hana.

Have you ever know me do what ANYBODY tells me......... :twisted: :lol:

 

[Patch]

The problem here is - and I have experienced this TODAY - dietitians/specialist nurses will tell you what they are told to tell you. If that conflicts with what YOU tell them you KNOW works, they assume you are lying. (I was told today that the brain CANNOT function without carbs to fuel it, and that NOT eating carbs wil make you deficient in AT LEAST Vits. B1 & B2).

Seems to me like they've done all the learning they are going to do, and are not willing to listen when you tell them what you've learned from living with this 24hrs/365days a year. Any dietitian that claims to know more than me about my contrl is ignorant and deluded.

Until there is a radical re-think by the specialists/experts, we're just gonna have to continue to take personal responsibilty for our diabetes management. After all, they can only make suggestions to us - we are in charge of our own treatment.

 

[sugarless sue]

The problem here is - and I have experienced this TODAY - dietitians/specialist nurses will tell you what they are told to tell you. If that conflicts with what YOU tell them you KNOW works, they assume you are lying. (I was told today that the brain CANNOT function without carbs to fuel it, and that NOT eating carbs wil make you deficient in AT LEAST Vits. B1 & B2).

The brain needs a certain amount of glucose to function, wherever it gets it from.
The best sources of Vitamin B1 are yeasts and liver. The following foods are good sources of Vitamin B1:

* Pork
* Whole-grain cereals
* Rye and whole-wheat flour
* Wheat germ
* Navy beans and kidney beans

Women should have 1.1 milligrams every day, and men should have 1.5 milligrams every day.

Vitamin B2 is found in most plant and animal tissues.

Milk, eggs and dairy products such as yogurt and cheese are excellent sources of Vitamin B2 as are leafy green vegetables, avocado, broccoli and asparagus. Enriched and whole grains and cereals are other good sources and so are nuts, legumes, soybeans and mushrooms. Fruits, organ meats (liver, kidney and the heart) and fish contain ample amounts of Vitamin B2 as well.

So I wouldn't think you would be short of that !


Seems to me like they've done all the learning they are going to do, and are not willing to listen when you tell them what you've learned from living with this 24hrs/365days a year. Any dietitian that claims to know more than me about my contrl is ignorant and deluded.


To be fair, Patch, HCP's only go on evidence based research, not anecdotal evidence. What is needed is some good solid peer reviewed and verifiable research on the subject and this is just not happening yet. If you are a well controlled diabetic and know that what works for you works then keep on doing it. You know your body better than them, but for a newly diagnosed Diabetics then they have to have some guidelines to begin with until they to become more experienced in their own care.


Until there is a radical re-think by the specialists/experts, we're just gonna have to continue to take personal responsibility for our diabetes management. After all, they can only make suggestions to us - we are in charge of our own treatment.

We all need to take personal responsibility for our own Diabetes care, but we all needed a little help in the beginning.

 

[cugila]

I won't go over what Sue has posted but I will say that it is fine for YOU to KNOW what works for YOU. However, that is not to say that it works for everybody as we repeatedly say on here !

What works for me will probably be different to you Patch.......probably the only thing we might agree on is the need for carb reduction. As to the actual level of reduction that has to be a matter for the individual. That individual may have a medical condition, be taking certain drugs, have a difficult lifestyle and many other variables such as Age, Gender, activity etc.
ALL these things have to be taken into consideration.

My own experience of HCP's in relation to Diabetes is very positive. The ones I deal with are learning all the time in much the same way as ourselves. None of them profess to know it all and they certainly do NOT advocate high carbs in any way shape or form. They are enlightened and a new breed .......prepared to listen and not just quote the 'script.'

As Sue says......evidence is what is required, there is much evidence to support a balanced diet, there is much evidence to support low carbing.......what we need is a consensus.....not confrontation. That just serves to 'get peoples back's up' .....not the wisest move by any stretch of the imagination. Persuasion, rather than telling somebody they don't know what they are talking about is a recipe for disaster. Telling them something that frankly there is no real evidence about certain things so we all have to take a leap of faith.........if it is right or wrong is in the lap of the God's. I would never tell anybody what they are doing is wrong and that my way is the 'only way'........I would tell them of my experience controlling MY Diabetes as an example. Then it is their choice..........

There are MANY ways to control Diabetes........that is why this Forum does not advocate one particular way........, just ways that can and do work. Everybody here has a choice and we do not all have to do the same thing.

We do have to be our own 'experts', GP, Dietician, Nutritionist, Endocrinologist all rolled into one......it is hard work at times, but very satisfying when you know you are doing something that works, something that is right........for YOU.

 

[Patch]

I'm not trying to tell anyone anything. I've arrived at my position through trial and error - and I want to make people aware that the best thing they can do is to go through the same process that I did.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone - just trying to make people aware that there is more information out there than what is spoon fed to us everytime we go to doctors/hospital.

Re: info for newly diagnosed diabetics - I think the NHS has got it backwards. They tell the newly diagnosed to eat slow release carbs (porridge/pasta/rice/granary bread), and THEN take out the elements that we find raises our blood sugar. SURELY, they should do the opposite of this - provide newly diagnosed diabetics with a diet plan that they KNOW will lower their BG (and we ALL know what that list would contain), and then SLOWLY re-introduce the hi-carb foods to see which ones are tolerated and which ones aren't?

The NHS is TOO KEEN to INCREASE the symptoms of diabetes in the newly diagnosed so that they can treat it with expensive medication.

[Note to mods: Why is that this thread/discussion has been allowed to flourish, but as soon as I chime in you both feel it necessary to disect my post? Feels like a personal attack.]

Peace, Love & Pork Scratchings. (I had 2 packs for lunch today! No doubt I'm now deficient in some life giving vitamins... :wink: )

 

[cugila]

Patch.

Why on earth do you think we are dissecting your post ? :?

Why would you think this is a personal attack ? :?

This is a discussion area and both Sue and I wish to join in the discussion. Surely that is something we are allowed to do in the same way that we do all over the Forum ? Nobody seems to object in other places.

Would you rather we both never posted at all ? Surely we are allowed to voice our opinions here in this thread Patch. We are entitled to an opinion in much the same way as anybody else here.

Do you not think that fair........ :?

 

[sugarless sue]

Patch, I am a low carber, have been for 3 years and still on no medication.

If by dissecting your post you mean me answering within your post it saves me scrolling back and forth to remember the salient points.

I agreed with you on most points, just put in a defence for my fellow HCP's that's all, hardly a personal attack.

We both post on things that interest us, we are members as well as Monitors after all.

Fair comment ?

 

[mutango]

My GP recommended I go low-carb when I was diagnosed, which I have done only intermittently thus far I admit. The advice from the medical community does seem inconsistent on this but then that's life. The definitive answer is not proven yet. I do favour low-carbing myself, though.

 

[mommydearest]

Hi, isit only my doctor then that advised me to restrict my carbs on diagnoises? He is pretty well informed and tries to keep up with the lastest information on most things. :roll:

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Hi, isit only my doctor then that advised me to restrict my carbs on diagnoises? He is pretty well informed and tries to keep up with the lastest information on most things. :roll:

No Mommydearest it isn't but some people who have been advised badly assume everyone gets bad advice.

I saw a hospital diabetes nurse when diagnosed as I was in hospital at the time suffering an SVT caused by high bg that I was unaware of :lol: She was brilliant and explained everything to me at least 5 times, of course I forgot a lot of it as like every newly diagnosed diabetic I was in shock at the time, but she advised that I should cut down drastically on all food groups and to only eat one portion of carbs with each meal, a portion being what would fit in the palm of my hand, I followed this advice and soon became used to the smaller meals, a smaller plate helped to achieve this, I did find that I was unable to eat hardly any carbs for breakfast when I seemed to be especially insulin resistant but that apart I found her advice pretty good

I still needed the advice I got here to help cross the t's and dot the i's and to help my diabetes leaning curve but my initial advice was on the whole pretty sound.

Earlier this year I saw a hospital dietitian whose mantra was "low carb is the way forward" and her starting point for daily consumption was 90g of carbs, dependent on age, sex, physical activity etc. Hardly the eat loads of starchy carbs advice some are always claiming to have been told.

So mommydearest I think a lot depends on where and by whom you are seen as to what advice you are given, but you are not alone there are probably more good doc's and nurses out there than some would have you believe

 

[billhp49]

There is quite a trend here.

I have after 4 years of taking advice from the professionals and struggling with my levels - always between 9.5 and 14.0 leading to increased dosages of metformin and other cocktails - changed to low carb diet.

Not applauded by the practice diabetic nurse yet asfter one month my levels have dropped to 7.9 and now she doens't want to see me again.

I feel physically better than I have for a long time. I don't fall asleep during the day any more. I have come of januvia - it caused me a worsening chest problem.

Why do the NHS pro's get this so badly wrong?

Bill

 

[sugarless sue]

When you say the nurse does not want to see you again, is that because she thinks you are 'better' or is it because you are low carbing ?

 

[KaseyCoff]

I am so confused about WHY doctors would recomment or prescribe MORE medication! Regardless of the state of health of the patient (I'm not suggesting the healthcare community doesn't or shouldn't care, just that if only prescriptions are considered) - the NHS keeps publicizing the need to cut costs, save money, impose budget constraints, etc. In that case, wouldn't they encourage LESS medicine be handed out? Wouldn't they remind doctors to try to prescribe minimum dosages, and educate patients about closer monitoring in hopes that prescriptions could remain static (or even decrease) instead of increasing?

I know, it doesn't seem to work that way. And I surely would not want to see people denied medication who genuinely needed it. But ignoring the patient's queries (and knowledge about his or her own body) and arbitrarily increasing prescriptions would seem counter-productive to saving NHS funds. Wouldn't it? :?

 

[manlancs]

My Problem is not with my doctor as such - except for the way they run the diabetes care in the practice, which is another argument.

The practice has all the diabetes care done by the practice nurse who is not a diabetes expert, she does everything. And she is the one dishing out the 'no low carbing' edict

I snuck in a mini review with the doctor when she took bloods for other things and doctor now knows I reduce carb and is happy with that as I have regained control of my BG.

I am due to move house in the next year or I would change my practise to one who I think cares better for their diabetic patients than to put their care in the hands of someone who has done a short course and treats everybody according to the same 'crib sheet'

anniep, we must use the same practice,as the one I use relies on a not very well trained nurse to do the lot except sign prescription and has a female nominated as of interest in diabetics. she the nurse insists in promoting Plenty of Carbs.

 

[anniep]

And have changed reviews as standard to every 6 months, for everybody stable or not?

 

[tanj666]

Hi All,

I went through this a few years ago. Very high bG's all the time, told to constantly increase basal insulin. I knew this was wrong, I knew (and I told them) that I was going hypo during the night.

But they didn't listen.

In then end I switched to a clinic at an older building a few miles further away. Here they understood what I was going through. After 6 months of me keeping very precise bG/CHO diaries and trying various split doses of basal insulin I was put on a pump.

The problem was that my body wasn't using the basal insulin properly, it either got used too quickly or was left dormant and did nothing.

It's taken me a lot of work, a lot of monitoring and trying things out this year on the pump, but now my bG's are almost always where they should be.

You can't beat a good diabetes speciaist nurse. In fact, please don't, it's kinky for one thing and may put them off the job for another :wink:

Cheers,

Anthony

 

[HDKey]

Hello all,

Having just been diagnosed with DB2 I'm trying to control my BG through diet. I attended a DESMOND all day session, (I don't think this is just a local initiative). This was an eye opener and, after going into detail of the effects of DB on the body, the diet sections of the session concentrated solely on carbohydrates. The message was clear that so much of the control of BG is in our hands by reducing the intake of carbs. In the few weeks since DESMOND the readings from my monitor have plummeted. Find something other than chips with fish & chips or some rices with your Chicken curry. Lunch doesn't consist of a juicy sandwich anymore; ditch the bread.

The medics' attitudes in early postings seem to be like something out of the dark ages. It's certainly not the stance of my advisers in this part of the country - West Yorkshire. As has been previously asserted, follow you own instincts.
Have a look at this site:
http://www.the-gi-diet.org/lowgifoods/

All the best.