PUTTING ME ON STATINS...SHOULD I / SHOULDN’T I?

presidentholmes said:

in May it was 14.6!!! And today it is 6.6.
So, a huge reduction thank goodness. Don’t know if this is due to getting my blood sugar right down, losing 21lbs

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I think you have answered your own question. You have done great by reducing your BG and weight and your cholesterol has come down.

Statins are a personal choice. There are Pros and Cons with them. Personally I take them as I suffered a heart attack but many do not believe in them.

Well done on your great results.

Hi @presidentholmes

This thread may help you make a decision.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/cholesterol-and-statins.156985/

Definitely research statins unless you have had a cardiac event.

Remember that your total cholesterol number is meaningless. See your records for your HDL to Triglycerides ratio, this is a good proxy marker for risk.

I agree that the total cholesterol level is meaningless. It is a total of the good, the not so good, and the not that bad. You need the breakdown. You need the HDL, LDL, and triglycerides before you (or your doctor) can make any decisions.

Total cholesterol isn’t always a good guide. Do you know your breakdown of HDL, LDL and triglycerides. You need to find these out to then calculate your ratios of one to the other. I have a total cholesterol of 6.5 so similar to yours yet my ratios are perfectly normal. If you can find out your breakdown here’s a calculator for you:
http://www.hughcalc.org/chol-si.php
There are others out there too.
Also bear in mind that stains are known to raise blood sugars

Edit to correct typo.

I'm a massive cholesterol skeptic. I would take a hs-CRP inflammation test and CAC (Coronary Artery Calcification) scan before I even considered the possibility of taking a statin. But that is just my personal view and I accept that others may disagree.

xfieldok said:

Definitely research statins unless you have had a cardiac event.

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I say even if you've had a cardiac event (I had Angina requiring a triple Cardio Artery Bypass), do research statins - don't just accept them since they do raise your Blood Glucose.

I passively accepted statins after my CAB at first, but upon being diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes, I persuaded my doctor to cut my dose in half since my Lipid figures and ratios were good.
Initially he argued that 'you can never have LDL low enough' - I responded that the only way to have LDL of zero was to be dead since it is necessary for life! Then he argued that according to the Pfizer information my particular statin (Atorvatstatin) doesn't raise BG. I countered with independent research shows that it does and also that the actual wording that Pfizer use doesn't categorically deny this - they just say that 'other stains are known to raise BG'.

Out of interest, my Dr only gave me total and HDL. They said "Sheffield does not give the full sets of result's" or something along those lines. Has any one had that, can I request the full information or do some hospitals simply not do the test in that way?

Take 'em at your own risk. Totally with @Jim Lahey on this.

I would never want to go back to the state I was in taking Metformin and Atorvastatin - I was non compos mentis, unable to remember what I'd done or what I was doing.

sno0opy said:

Out of interest, my Dr only gave me total and HDL. They said "Sheffield does not give the full sets of result's" or something along those lines. Has any one had that, can I request the full information or do some hospitals simply not do the test in that way?

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In my humble opinion, in order to arrive at the total cholesterol, the lab must know what the triglycerides are and from this they estimate the LDL. (the LDL is normally estimated in the UK unless directly requested to measure it, which is highly unlikely). It is your doctor that decided not to request the full breakdown, for whatever reason, presumably cost. You can certainly request the full lipid panel. In fact, I would insist on it.

If you do decide to take statins, keep a log recording when you started, the actual drug name and the dose prescribed. If you notice anything changing, such as BS rising over time (even though your eating habits have not changed), muscle or joint pain starting or steadily getting worse, memory getting worse etc, note in down in your log to report back to your GP. GPs are generally unaware of all the side-effects statins cause. Some people apparently suffer no ill effects. Others, like me, spend years recovering. Just be careful and monitor how things go.

See it gives a good overview of the evidence for statins

I have decided against statins for myself after reviewing the literature -despite being a UK registered medic who was always taught the exact opposite!

You do need to make your own decisions on this though - and a full lipid panel is a must. Total cholesterol levels are utterly meaningless without the TGs and ratios.

My belief is that we should take the evidence in totality. So firstly the biggest drivers of heart disease are being overweight, high circulating insulin and high blood pressure - it is disturbing to me that this isn't common parlance. The primary driver of the lipid heart hypothesis was the 7 countries study by Ancel Keys. The science was misrepresented, but this does not discount assessment.

Having moved from total cholesterol to high LDL being the errant profile, the research I have done suggests that for LDL to be a factor in heart disease it needs to be damaged and get into the lining of an artery or arteries, especially under pressure (blood pressure). One cause of damage to LDL is oxidation, which can occur via a level of sugar / carbs not suitable for the individual. By low carbing (and or exercise) fat in the blood (Triglycerides) can be reduced - this is seen by many (I subscribe to this) to one of the key factors within the lipid profile. If this is believed you want below 1. HDL is also seen as an important factor to be high. LDL performs important jobs for hormones, testosterone, oestrogen and repair functions. We make around 85% of the cholesterol within our bodies and every cell has some.

The CAC scan is the best readily available test that is far superior to conventional guestimates. "The Big Fat Surprise" is worth a read or listen to. Other good references are Dave Feldman, Ivor Cummins, Dr Nadir Ali.

Unfortunately the research I have done shows that the reporting of how well statins do is slight of hand (relative risk being misleading, bad results (for the statin supporters) not be published, screening out evidence to suit, which in practical terms means removing non-favourable participants). I remember some evidence that showed that doing nothing (placebo) was about 1% behind taking a statin in effectiveness. Aseem Malhotra references about 5 days extra life, if a statin is taken for 5 years following either a stroke or heart attack (highlighted as I do not want to mislead - sorry can't remember which one):

sno0opy said:

Out of interest, my Dr only gave me total and HDL. They said "Sheffield does not give the full sets of result's" or something along those lines. Has any one had that, can I request the full information or do some hospitals simply not do the test in that way?

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I am from Sheffield and today was my diabetic consultant meeting in Hallamshire Hospital and they do give you a breakdown of all 3. It was on her computer screen so I would challenge that with your Doctor.