Reverse Type 2 Diabetes with a LCHF diet. Is this a myth?

[Oldvatr]

If you personally find the low carb approach delicious and you are healthy and happy then for goodness sake keep doing it! It's truly great that you have found what works for you. Long may it continue!

In my house we eat LCHF since I do the shopping and the cooking. Have done for 4 years now. We have found that we can eat comfortably and well on it, and now we have a list of stock items in the pantry it is no real sweat to conjure up the meals. It is only when we try new dishes that I need to be careful with ingredients, but now I have the knowledge I can do simple substitutions where appropriate. So rice is cauliflower sachets in the freezer then microwave, etc. My family prefer some of the LC meals to what we used to eat in terms of conventional fare, e,g, Fathead Pizza, aubergine lasagne, butternut squash based stew or curry,

I am not doing keto, so don;t need to be too strict on our meals, so we have occasional eat-outs and takeaways without feeling bad about it. When my numbers get crunched down into the daily average, they don;t look bad at all and the occasional peak is soon lost in the terms of HbA1c.

 

[Little Bird]

Can you tell me what you mean by low carb? Different people mean different things. When you think of lo carb, what do the meals look like to you?

hi again lucielocket, that's very good question. The message seems universally to be that you have to be strict LCHF i.e. Keto in order to control blood sugar effectively, but there are others who say they can tolerate some carbs. My original question referred to LCHF as this seems to be most commonly advocated. As for myself I would not advocate any type of diet as I as I think it up to the individual to make their own choices. I am firm believer in autonomy.

 

[Little Bird]

In my house we eat LCHF since I do the shopping and the cooking. Have done for 4 years now. We have found that we can eat comfortably and well on it, and now we have a list of stock items in the pantry it is no real sweat to conjure up the meals. It is only when we try new dishes that I need to be careful with ingredients, but now I have the knowledge I can do simple substitutions where appropriate. So rice is cauliflower sachets in the freezer then microwave, etc. My family prefer some of the LC meals to what we used to eat in terms of conventional fare, e,g, Fathead Pizza, aubergine lasagne, butternut squash based stew or curry,

I am not doing keto, so don;t need to be too strict on our meals, so we have occasional eat-outs and takeaways without feeling bad about it. When my numbers get crunched down into the daily average, they don;t look bad at all and the occasional peak is soon lost in the terms of HbA1c.

sounds good to


sounds great, glad you've found your balance. Happy days!

 

[lucylocket61]

hi again lucielocket, that's very good question. The message seems universally to be that you have to be strict LCHF i.e. Keto in order to control blood sugar effectively, but there are others who say they can tolerate some carbs. My original question referred to LCHF as this seems to be most commonly advocated. As for myself I would not advocate any type of diet as I as I think it up to the individual to make their own choices. I am firm believer in autonomy.

I am not asking you to advocate a diet. You seem to say that you are not wanting to low carb. I am asking you for your view of what a low carb diet for you looks like. I have around 100g of carbs a day.

 

[lucylocket61]

The message seems universally to be that you have to be strict LCHF i.e. Keto in order to control blood sugar effectively, but

PS I am not sure why you think that as many of us on here, including me, are not very low carb or keto. And we control our blood sugars effectively.

 

[Rachox]

. The message seems universally to be that you have to be strict LCHF i.e. Keto in order to control blood sugar effectively, but there are others who say they can tolerate some carbs

You’ve hit the nail on the head! Everyone is different, the only way to find what you can eat without any detrimental effects is to self test.
According to Diet Dr I fit into the moderate carb category:
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/how-low-carb-is-low-carb
This level of carbs plus Metformin has resulted in my maintaining a non diabetic HbA1c for over two years. I found what level is suitable for me by self testing.

 

[Mr_Pot]

@Little Bird you might want to look here for some ideas about what a Low Carb Diet involves https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb Personally I do something similar to @Oldvatr and have normal meals with the rest of the family except that I leave out or substitute the high carb parts.

 

[Brunneria]

Yes I agree and think that is the real problem. Reversal has yet to be defined by anyone and that's leaves it open to interpretation. It's a dilemma.

Unfortunately, that is not the case.
Everyone and his wife has defined ‘reversal’, including yourself, earlier in this thread.
But the definitions do not agree.

 

[jjraak]

hi again lucielocket, that's very good question.
The message seems universally to be that you have to be strict LCHF i.e. Keto
in order to control blood sugar effectively,

but there are others who say they can tolerate some carbs. My original question referred to LCHF as this seems to be most commonly advocated. As for myself I would not advocate any type of diet as I as I think it up to the individual to make their own choices. I am firm believer in autonomy.

hahaha..are you a politician..

I do fear you are in danger of appearing not to listen or only hear what you want to hear.

Many on here roll from the mid 100's down to the low 20's and some even under that.
BECAUSE we are individuals.

i'd suggest you might be better off, looking deeper on the forum for more information,
on what others do to keep there numbers low

 

[Little Bird]

Apologies lucielocket

PS I am not sure why you think that as many of us on here, including me, are not very low carb or keto. And we control our blood sugars effectively.

I just meant that i have read many posts on here from people who like yourself have excellent results with LCHF but also some others have said they are able to tolerate some carbs. It seems that different people react in different ways. Only you can know your own personal threshold of course.

 

[Little Bird]

hahaha..are you a politician..

I do fear you are in danger of appearing not to listen or only hear what you want to hear.

Many on here roll from the mid 100's down to the low 20's and some even under that.
BECAUSE we are individuals.

i'd suggest you might be better off, looking deeper on the forum for more information,
on what others do to keep there numbers low

Yes we are all individuals and we each have to find out our own ideal solution. It's is great that so many people have made such great progress, coming down from a hundred to the 20s is impressive. Long may it continue!

 

[jjraak]

Yes we are all individuals and we each have to find out our own ideal solution. It's is great that so many people have made such great progress, coming down from a hundred to the 20s is impressive. Long may it continue!

what ?

those numbers refer to how many carbs people take.

Can i still ask what it is that's a normal days food for you, and what your hba1c was,
it would give a bit of context to your posts

 

[Caprock94]

Clearly, as evidenced by many here (including myself), you can get your blood sugar levels back in normal range by going LCHF. I did it fairly quickly. I also lost 30 pounds. I have no doubt that if I go back to my old way of eating, I will likely return to diabetic ranges. The question I have is once you have "reversed" it, is it truly all about carbs, or more about keeping yourself at a healthy weight? Yes, carbs spike my blood sugars more than proteins or fat.....but that is true for all. The question is how much. I seem to be able to tolerate more carbs now than early on in my weight loss process. Dr. Roy Taylor (Newcastle study) and Dr. Jason Fung both talk about the pancreatic beta cells not being dead, but rather covered in fat from fatty liver and pancreas. So, if true, and if your beta cells start working again and your pancreas is working properly, I am then back to wondering if it is about avoiding carbs or maintaining a healthy weight (which would include losing the fat around organs) as the most important factor.

 

[lucylocket61]

Apologies lucielocket

I just meant that i have read many posts on here from people who like yourself have excellent results with LCHF but also some others have said they are able to tolerate some carbs. It seems that different people react in different ways. Only you can know your own personal threshold of course.

I CAN tolerate some carbs. I can tolerate 100g a day. Thats quite a lot. LCHF can be up to 130g a day. That is why I asked you what you understand a low carb diet to be.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

Reverse Type 2 Diabetes with a LCHF diet. Is this a myth?

I have my T2 under very good control by eating lchf food, my low carb intake is less than 100 grams per day.

I have stopped taking Metformin after discussion with my GP for the past six months, I have a hba1c test due on 2nd December to see how I am progressing by continuing to eat lchf.

Here's a chart of the progress that I have made.

 

[VashtiB]

Hi Littlebird,

I think I understand what you are getting at. I'm pretty new into my journey and at this stage am doing the keto plan with less than 20 grams of carbs a day. I hope that one day in the future I will be able to eat more carbs and still maintain my blood sugar levels.

For me the hope that this forum Brin gs is first that diabetes doesn't need to be progressive and certainly doesn't need to be progressive in the way medical science expects.

As for reversal or remission? Well I think one of the things that we need to keep in mind is that we are all different so some may be able to go to a life of medium carbs. The other thing to remember is that historically we now eat a lot more processed food and carbs than ever before. I think that if you look at the diet today there are so many carbs in every meal and those carbs are much more processed. I don't think humans have had a chance to really adapt to so many carbs. This is combined with a lifestyle that is far more sedentary. If we all worked in the fields every day all day our bodies could probably cope with more carbs. The next thing for me is that my mother is a type 2. She does not manage it in any way- eats lots of carbs all the time- 20 years later still no symptoms at all. Maybe I have the genes which delays/prevents complications but I don't know and don't want to take the risk.

I understand the hope to be completely free of diabetes. I'm not really a fan of LCHF in the sense of liking the food at all. I struggle with it a lot. But I'm in my early 50s- I need to work and want no diabetes complications so I do what is necessary. I don't believe I'll ever be able to go back to my previous way of eating and that makes me sad but I plan to have all my limbs and my eyesight in 20 years time.

I personally think that I was always sensitive to carbs it just took a while before my body said- no more!

 

[Little Bird]

Unfortunately, that is not the case.
Everyone and his wife has defined ‘reversal’, including yourself, earlier in this thread.
But the definitions do not agree.

My definition or everyone and his wife's definition is not a medical or scientific definition and that as far as I'm aware has yet to determined.. In any case it is highly relevant to my original question ie does a low carb diet control rather than reverse diabetes since the answer to that question would depend on the definition of reversal. I guess there is no clear answer to my question then.

 

[Little Bird]

Clearly, as evidenced by many here (including myself), you can get your blood sugar levels back in normal range by going LCHF. I did it fairly quickly. I also lost 30 pounds. I have no doubt that if I go back to my old way of eating, I will likely return to diabetic ranges. The question I have is once you have "reversed" it, is it truly all about carbs, or more about keeping yourself at a healthy weight? Yes, carbs spike my blood sugars more than proteins or fat.....but that is true for all. The question is how much. I seem to be able to tolerate more carbs now than early on in my weight loss process. Dr. Roy Taylor (Newcastle study) and Dr. Jason Fung both talk about the pancreatic beta cells not being dead, but rather covered in fat from fatty liver and pancreas. So, if true, and if your beta cells start working again and your pancreas is working properly, I am then back to wondering if it is about avoiding carbs or maintaining a healthy weight (which would include losing the fat around organs) as the most important factor.

that's a very similar question to my question, I think. As I said in my original post I am puzzled by the concept of diabetes reversal and what this really means. Some very thought provoking ideas on the forum of not an actual answer.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

As I said in my original post I am puzzled by the concept of diabetes reversal and what this really means.

According to my GP and a CDE I spoke to at Diabetes Queensland, that there is no such thing a remission or reversed with T2 diabetes in Queensland.

This why I am saying I have my T2 under very good control, now if I start eating rubbish food again I will revert back to where I was nearly three years ago and not under control.

I am a T2 in recovery mode if you like, the same as a alcoholic that has not had a drink for a year or more.

 

[Little Bird]

Hi Littlebird,

I think I understand what you are getting at. I'm pretty new into my journey and at this stage am doing the keto plan with less than 20 grams of carbs a day. I hope that one day in the future I will be able to eat more carbs and still maintain my blood sugar levels.

For me the hope that this forum Brin gs is first that diabetes doesn't need to be progressive and certainly doesn't need to be progressive in the way medical science expects.

As for reversal or remission? Well I think one of the things that we need to keep in mind is that we are all different so some may be able to go to a life of medium carbs. The other thing to remember is that historically we now eat a lot more processed food and carbs than ever before. I think that if you look at the diet today there are so many carbs in every meal and those carbs are much more processed. I don't think humans have had a chance to really adapt to so many carbs. This is combined with a lifestyle that is far more sedentary. If we all worked in the fields every day all day our bodies could probably cope with more carbs. The next thing for me is that my mother is a type 2. She does not manage it in any way- eats lots of carbs all the time- 20 years later still no symptoms at all. Maybe I have the genes which delays/prevents complications but I don't know and don't want to take the risk.

I understand the hope to be completely free of diabetes. I'm not really a fan of LCHF in the sense of liking the food at all. I struggle with it a lot. But I'm in my early 50s- I need to work and want no diabetes complications so I do what is necessary. I don't believe I'll ever be able to go back to my previous way of eating and that makes me sad but I plan to have all my limbs and my eyesight in 20 years time.

I personally think that I was always sensitive to carbs it just took a while before my body said- no more!

hi VashtiB, thanks so much for your reply I think you reallydo understand where I'm coming from. I can relate to everything you've said in your post. Low carb is better than the complications but not necessarily the happiest solution for some. Good luck with your journey and your Mums too.