- Messages
- 14,295
- Type of diabetes
- I reversed my Type 2
- Treatment type
- Diet only
Little Bird, there have been many threads on here for the ND. If you use the site search facility, I feel sure they'd come up.
Hi Dark Horse, now that really is very interesting. The dietary guidelines for life after the shakes part of the diet does include some carbs. It says avoid things like biscuits and cakes and limit starchy carbs like rice and that bulgar chickpea flour etc. are better than rice and wheat. if you could eat those foods without being adversely affected then I think that would be a true reversal.
It seems from some of the replies posted hear that some people assumed I meant that reversal would mean that you could go back to eating chips, chocolate cake and the like but that was never what I meant. These foods are unhealthy for everyone, not just diabetics. The return to normal, reduced energy diet, which contains some high fibre carbs, is what I would describe as normal food and what I was talking about in my original post.
Its true that the reversal success rate was less than half, but the study reports that even those who did not reverse their diabetes still lowered their blood sugars. That is particularly interesting because it suggests reversal is a distinct thing (whatever the precise definition) from blood sugar reduction and/control.
I have no idea what the statistics say but having read many testimonials it seems that the true power of low carb diets is in controlling blood sugars rather than reversing diabetes. As I have said repeatedly that can only be a good thing, particularly for those whose diabetes is not reversible it is life enhancing and life saving! But is it reversal like that described in the ND diet?
Yes..thats what I thought when I was first diagnosed back in 2011. However as soon as i began to slowly add back the calories i also started ro regain the weight...at a much quicker rate than ever before because my body had got used to surviving on 600 cals (which was what they said the ND was way back then..they didn't mention the extra 200 cals that was provided by real food in any literature i could find about the ND at the time) So I had done all of that for absolutely nothing. I wasn't even back to square one...I was further back than that with a slower metabolism. Plus I felt like a complete failure as I regained the weight.Long term certainly not, but it is intended to be a short term intervention, a bit like taking antibiotics.
I know of no evidence that he has ever said that or even implied anything near it. I think you may be projecting on to him the unhelpful attitudes that other people have had to you over the years.Professor Taylor is in essence blaming the patient for an underlying condition of carb intolerance. He is saying 'lose weight and you can get reversal'. So if the patient can't keep the weight off (and that's the hard bit) it's all their own silly fault, they are weak.
Apparently you're supposed to eat some veggies as well as the shakes so that take in enough fibre. I would imagine it would pretty miserable otherwise!Yes..thats what I thought when I was first diagnosed back in 2011. However as soon as i began to slowly add back the calories i also started ro regain the weight...at a much quicker rate than ever before because my body had got used to surviving on 600 cals (which was what they said the ND was way back then..they didn't mention the extra 200 cals that was provided by real food in any literature i could find about the ND at the time) So I had done all of that for absolutely nothing. I wasn't even back to square one...I was further back than that with a slower metabolism. Plus I felt like a complete failure as I regained the weight.
Yes, but is there any evidence that LCHF without weight loss results in loss of fat from liver and pancreas?I don't mean to speak for someone else but I think the message is that it is the loss of fat deposits from the liver and pancreas is responsible for the change in blood sugar levels rather than overall weight loss.
Thank you I will look for them. I find I get a bit lost as there is so much info and so many different forums!Little Bird, there have been many threads on here for the ND. If you use the site search facility, I feel sure they'd come up.
Well my Alt liver count vastly improved on LCHF without weight loss...but I have never been offered a scan so I can't prove that there was loss of fat from the liver. However before LCHF my GP felt my liver and said it was fatty. Since the improvement in Alt count he has said it feels fine. Unfortunately those of us who haven't been in a trial don't get access to the scans to prove our method works.Yes, but is there any evidence that LCHF without weight loss results in loss of fat from liver and pancreas?
I did 600 cals of mostly veggies with a little fat. I had done plenty of shake diets before ...back when the medical profession dismissed them as dangerous fad diets so i wasn't gping to put myself through that again.Apparently you're supposed to eat some veggies as well as the shakes so that take in enough fibre. I would imagine it would pretty miserable otherwise!
I honestly don't know but I'd like to, it's an interesting question. I believe that when you lose weight regardless of starting weight or the type of diet that one of the first places you lose it from is the internal organs but the rate and degree can vary from one person to another. As I understand it some people deposit and hold on to their liver fat more stubbornly than others. I think this is an of diabetes research. Fascinating!Yes, but is there any evidence that LCHF without weight loss results in loss of fat from liver and pancreas?
Yes you are probably right. There have been very many HCPs who have judged me wrongly in the past so I still see the 'eat less move more' message as a personal criticism. Sorry Prof. Taylor. The funny thing is with LCHF I can eat more and move alot more and am alot healthier.I know of no evidence that he has ever said that or even implied anything near it. I think you may be projecting on to him the unhelpful attitudes that other people have had to you over the years.
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence from members here losing weight but not claiming remission or reversal, but few LCHF claiming anything other thn gaining control. Even those who are clearly in the non diabetic ranges do not seem to claim reversal. Even myself who did have a brief honeymoon period recently only claimed it because my consultants declared it, but I am no longer in that happy state but am able thankfully to claim control.Yes, but is there any evidence that LCHF without weight loss results in loss of fat from liver and pancreas?
clearly not a good approach for you then zand. But you have found what is good for you now so that's a good thing and it's great to hear about your success and that you are happy ☺.I did 600 cals of mostly veggies with a little fat. I had done plenty of shake diets before ...back when the medical profession dismissed them as dangerous fad diets so i wasn't gping to put myself through that again.
Being judged by others can make ud sensitive, In some ways I think the judgements people put on other people can cause more harm than diabetes or any physical issue ever c could. I think it's important to respect other people's views and choices as well as their individualism and refrain from judgements and criticism. It's poison.Yes you are probably right. There have been very many HCPs who have judged me wrongly in the past so I still see the 'eat less move more' message as a personal criticism. Sorry Dr Taylor. The funny thing is with LCHF I can eat more and move alot more and am alot healthier.
For some but not all who have it...bariatric surgery is the only recognised path to full time reversal.
Being judged by others can make ud sensitive, In some ways I think the judgements people put on other people can cause more harm than diabetes or any physical issue ever c could. I think it's important to respect other people's views and choices as well as their individualism and refrain from judgements and criticism. It's poison.
Therein lies the problem. Analysis paralysis has always been my happy place!So have you decided what your path will be?
Please don't succumb to analysis paralysis..
When thinking about all this I just want to share that a very low calorie diet, years ago,affected my metabolism and I found that I put weight on quicker after it, and have remained needing fewer calories since. My metabolism didn't go back. Something not often mentioned is the affect low calorie diet can have on our long-term metabolismTherein lies the problem. Analysis paralysis has always been my happy place!
There are different flavours of the surgery, but one which is used for diabetes does seem to be suitable. I am not an expert in this, but the normal obesity snip snip seems to be insufficient and it is I believe the full bypass that is needed. It is this that the Taylor team was trying to emulate with the ND diet initial trial.For some but not all who have it...
The revolving door syndrome leading to yo-yo dieting. This is a very moot point made here.When thinking about all this I just want to share that a very low calorie diet, years ago,affected my metabolism and I found that I put weight on quicker after it, and have remained needing fewer calories since. My metabolism didn't go back. Something not often mentioned is the affect low calorie diet can have on our long-term metabolism
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