Son Type 1 Endo Resistant To Low Carb Diet?

Ssofa

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Hey,
I have been reading a ton on the low carb diet and diabetes since my 11 year old son was diagnosed type 1 in January. The clinic we go to at the regional hospital has him eating 195 carbs a day broken up into his three meals and two snacks. His insulin doses are based on those carb counts. Last time we were there the nurse tried to add another 15gr snack in the afternoon. I protested because I think k he already has enough carbs and can fill up on veggies and stuff but was dismissed. I'm confused why the nurses would be resistant to a low carb diet if it can help stabilize he levels? I'm not talking about denying him food at all, but he has to eat 60carbs at lunch or risk hypos but that seems like a lot of carbs to me? Is it dangerous for kids to eat low carb as type 1 diabetics?
Thanks so much!
 

kitedoc

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Hi @Ssofa,
Perhaps a dietician is the better person to advise you and your son on his diet.
As I recall my own teenage years on insulin, the need for added food as I experienced growth spurts was insatiable, but back in 1966 when I was diagnosed, dieticians were not in abundance and my mother just added in more protein during those times and I eat added carbs as I felt the need to., in accordance with insulin increase and then, urine testing. (no pumps, glucose meters or fancy insulins back then !!)
I do recall my specialist physician saying that he was concerned that I eat carbohydrate to balance out the increased insulin requirement and rising BSLs, as particularly during a growth spurt I may be more prone to ketosis with the risk of developing keto-acidosis. Insulin I gather is also important in growth so minimising insulin increase was a little frowned upon back then.
So .. today I gather that the complexities of growing teenagers who have diabetes is a multi-disciplinary team task, in which you as his parent are part of.
Perhaps ask for a dietician to be involved as part of the discussion and care of your son with some decent explanation to you of the rationale for his diet, insulin etc, plus about growth spurts and the possibility that his dietary needs may change in a periodic up and down fashion of the next few years.
If you which to relate the periodic ups and downs to music I suggest Wagner's , "Flight of the Valkyrie".
Best Wishes to you both on the journey and please keep posting !!!
 

Juicyj

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Hi @Ssofa Kitedoc has made a good point here that a dietician is best placed to discuss diet for your son. Whilst adults can benefit from managing their carbs the needs for a growing boy are completely different.

Reading between the lines however it sounds like his insulin regime is not very flexible if he is eating fixed amounts of carbs, so perhaps talk to your nurse about changing to a bolus regime where he can inject for the carbs he is eating which will mean he can choose when he wants to eat and of course how many carbs he wants to eat with his meal, this is less restrictive but will require him to understand carb values to manage his quick acting insulin, so giving him more ownership in managing his diabetes.
 
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Hey,
I have been reading a ton on the low carb diet and diabetes since my 11 year old son was diagnosed type 1 in January. The clinic we go to at the regional hospital has him eating 195 carbs a day broken up into his three meals and two snacks. His insulin doses are based on those carb counts. Last time we were there the nurse tried to add another 15gr snack in the afternoon. I protested because I think k he already has enough carbs and can fill up on veggies and stuff but was dismissed. I'm confused why the nurses would be resistant to a low carb diet if it can help stabilize he levels? I'm not talking about denying him food at all, but he has to eat 60carbs at lunch or risk hypos but that seems like a lot of carbs to me? Is it dangerous for kids to eat low carb as type 1 diabetics?
Thanks so much!

A lot of diabetes specialist worry about us type 1's having hypo's, many would prefer the patient to be a little higher and in the safe zone. I think that could be the reason for the higher carb intake. Carbs have a longer lasting effect on the body. For breakfast I normally have either a small ypgurt or a piece of fruit, even though my diabetes specialist said that's only a tiny amount and why can't I have a piece of toast. I don't really like the taste of my free from bread very much, I am Coeliac, on it's own it's taste's like cardboard and a yogurt or fruit is more refreshing for me. Maybe a dietician could help, but from what I have observed, a lot of these medical professional read from the same book.
Good luck x
 
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Ssofa

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Hi everyone,
Thanks so much for your responses. I would like to clarify I'm not posting here in order to change kiddos regime, I'm more looking for advice and experience. I wouldn't change his diet or insulin without the docs approval. We work with an interdisciplinary team including a dietician, nurse, and endocrinologist, as well as a couple others.
@Juicyj you're right, we are still on "step 1" where we work off a set carb count and aa set amount for his bolus and use a sliding scale depending on his blood glucose levels. It makes sense to ask if we can start carb dependent bolus injections instead.
I'm questioning the high carb count because everything I am reading indicates having a low-carb - some articles even mention a complete keto diet - can help prolong his honeymoon period and keep his level more even instead of the dramatic spikes and drops we see now. I understand the body requires carbs to grow and function, what I'm questioning is how much is enough and how much is influenced by our starchy, high carb kind of eating on a societal scale?
But I'm definitely looking for more experienced and anecdotal evidence - I'm not expecting any medical advice. :)
 
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Juicyj

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Hello @Ssofa

The best way to prolong the honeymoon period is simply to maintain good blood glucose control - the less stressed the pancreas is then potentially the longer it will maintain some function. However from a personal point of view I was quite relieved when it stopped producing as it meant my control was easier to manage - control with a partially functioning pancreas meant unpredictable blood glucose levels. The most important aspect of managing my diabetes is simply maintaining good control of my blood glucose levels. Running high or low affects my mood and ability to function normally so getting in my set range the majority of the time helps me manage living with this more easily. On a bolus regime if I am running high then I avoid carbs as fuelling a high blood glucose reading is not a good way of managing my condition so hence the flexibility is vital. However a bolus regime means if I want to eat a set amount of carbs then I can, rather than questiong how many carbs I should be eating I am instead using my meter to determine what I can eat and in turn managing my blood glucose levels so I can maintain good control.
 
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bulkbiker

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Hi everyone,
Thanks so much for your responses. I would like to clarify I'm not posting here in order to change kiddos regime, I'm more looking for advice and experience. I wouldn't change his diet or insulin without the docs approval. We work with an interdisciplinary team including a dietician, nurse, and endocrinologist, as well as a couple others.
@Juicyj you're right, we are still on "step 1" where we work off a set carb count and aa set amount for his bolus and use a sliding scale depending on his blood glucose levels. It makes sense to ask if we can start carb dependent bolus injections instead.
I'm questioning the high carb count because everything I am reading indicates having a low-carb - some articles even mention a complete keto diet - can help prolong his honeymoon period and keep his level more even instead of the dramatic spikes and drops we see now. I understand the body requires carbs to grow and function, what I'm questioning is how much is enough and how much is influenced by our starchy, high carb kind of eating on a societal scale?
But I'm definitely looking for more experienced and anecdotal evidence - I'm not expecting any medical advice. :)
Join the type one grit Facebook group who have a lot of kids using low carb to lower insulin requirements. They follow Dr Bernstein closely. Surprised none of the responding Type 1’s have mentioned it..
 
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LooperCat

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Join the type one grit Facebook group who have a lot of kids using low carb to lower insulin requirements. They follow Dr Bernstein closely. Surprised none of the responding Type 1’s have mentioned it..
I just clicked on the title to recommend it, not been online much this weekend! Yes, there is a type 1 grit page and also a group. It’s incredibly supportive and I’ve learned so much since becoming a member :)
 

Bluey1

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Consult a dietician.
Your son has differing dietary requirements to an adult. There are a lot dieticians that specialise in diabetes.
 

Daibell

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Hi. Yes, it sounds like the nurses have an 'NHS' view of diabetes and diet and are wrong. Assuming your son is on the Basal/Bolus regime he will have better control if he carb counts i.e. adjust his Bolus to match mealtime carbs. This assumes he is a responsible person who can manage that. Having more carbs to match insulin is generally the wrong way round. In general you should have the carbs you want and then match the insulin. For most of us the carbs need to kept sensibly down to avoid weight gain and higher BS swings. If your son isn't carb-counting do ask to have that explained and started.
 

Hoping4Cure

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A lot of diabetes specialist worry about us type 1's having hypo's, many would prefer the patient to be a little higher and in the safe zone. I think that could be the reason for the higher carb intake. Carbs have a longer lasting effect on the body.

This is of course erroneous thinking, though. I'm sure you know this but just for the benefit of the person asking.

I've fasted and eaten barely anything for a week about a dozen times last year (see the FMD thread), 500 calories a day and was in ketosis most of the time (meaning in a caloric deficit, catabolic state, and burning my own fat stores for ketones), and one of the things I worried about the most was life-threatening hypos. But this isn't what happened. The fact that I ate less calories meant I also took much less insulin, actually only a couple handfuls of units per day, and my hypo frequency dropped. Significantly. I also felt great. Full disclosure: When it came time to refeeding though, my insulin sensitivity dropped but that's another issue.

I'm 100% positive that low-carbing is a safer way for type 1s to live for the hypo issue alone, regardless of the myriad of other benefits such as improved A1C and lower weight.

Hypos are primarily caused by insulin overdose, i.e. over-corrections for ingested carbs. So higher carbs = more insulin = more insulin overdose. So, if you want to lower your hypo frequency, switch to a low-carb diet and thereby cut your insulin dose significantly, and thus your risk of insulin overdose as well. It's a fact. See: Dr Bernstein.

Also, the last sentence isn't true: fats last longer in the body, not carbs. Fat takes much longer to digest.

I can eat a couple slices of bacon and I'm satiated for the entire day until supper. I only eat two meals a day this way. If I ate a stack of pancakes and took a massive insulin dose I'd have to eat again in a few hours, or likely collapse. This is the law of small numbers at play.

To the OP: I would also say, ignore the high-carb mantra, they are wrong. My endo also doesn't believe in low-carbing and my A1C is much better than his. Sometimes the "experts" get it wrong. Just go shopping for a good nutritionist who understands ketosis and insulin-to-carb ratios and has read Dr Bernstein's book (and agrees with it). The bottom line is that your son's diet is your choice, not the doctor's, and sometimes doctors make mistakes and you have a right to get a second, third, fourth opinion. Or just reject their advice completely. He's wrong. People are now even thinking about switching to low-carb immediately during weaning. You don't need carbs to live (we do need a small amount of sugar, but you can get that from gluconeogenesis from protein). And it's not like you can 100% avoid them anyway.

An 11 year old type 1 can certainly experiment with ketosis. It's how humanity has lived since the beginning, periods of feast and famine resulting in us being able to not only survive, but thrive on ketones (from fat) as our primary fuel source. The brain actually prefers ketones and it makes your mind sharper. Eating excessive carbs and calories results in mental lethargy (think: after a big, heavy lunch at the office = no brain power for hours after, vs a small salad = go go go).

The goal of ideal type 1 control is a combination of three things:

a) a good A1C,
b) good sugar variance (A1C doesn't tell the whole story),
and
c) low insulin dose

You can only achieve all three at the same time by minimizing carbs. A low insulin dose has the side benefit of much lower hypo risk compared to a high-carb diet. To my mind it's literally dangerous to tell people to take more insulin. An insulin OD can kill you. This is just a fact. I crashed my car and woke up up-side down, bleeding, due to having too much insulin on board while driving. It came on too suddenly to do anything about it, as my vision blacked out suddenly (prior to the accident). My car and two others were totalled and the cops thought I must've been on drugs or booze. Nope, just insulin. They made me walk the line and touch my nose and breathe into a breathalyzer machine. "Ahh, you're a type 1, ok, it's not your fault but we're revoking your license until your doctor attests that you're under control". I tested myself right before turning the ignition. 4.7. This is the problem with insulin, it's both your friend and your enemy. So take it sparingly. And to do that, the best way is to avoid needing to take more of it. By eating less carbs and sugar. It is really that simple.

My last point is this: It's not your endocrinologist's responsibility to manage your son's diabetes, it's his.

Not even yours. You can help (especially with food selection* and prep), sure, but he needs to learn the hard way to do everything himself and know how his body works. Get him the Bernstein Diabetes Solution book and tell him to make it his Bible. The sooner you take responsibility for being pro-active and learning about how to manage the disease, the better.

*There are plenty of delicious recipes for low-carb foods that won't spike his sugars much (or at all). You can eat most of the yummiest foods on the planet with some alterations to reduce or remove carbs. Make spaghetti squash instead of spaghetti. Zucchini fettuccine (buy a slicer) is great too. Even butternut squash poutine is a wonderful, low-insulin required delight (though takes time to prepare enough of it).
 
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Resurgam

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I was told that eating low carb foods would stunt my son's growth - as he is about 6ft 3 or 4 it is lucky he liked the meals I made for the family or he might have grown dreadfully tall....
My children are not diabetic, but they were fed fairly low carb - unrestricted foods, just not heavy carbs. They are both tall and slender - never got acne, and my son only has to grin at his wife in a mischievous fashion for her to be pregnant - or at least that is what he says is the problem.
 
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michita

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This is of course erroneous thinking, though. I'm sure you know this but just for the benefit of the person asking.

I've fasted and eaten barely anything for a week about a dozen times last year (see the FMD thread), 500 calories a day and was in ketosis most of the time (meaning in a caloric deficit, catabolic state, and burning my own fat stores for ketones), and one of the things I worried about the most was life-threatening hypos. But this isn't what happened. The fact that I ate less calories meant I also took much less insulin, actually only a couple handfuls of units per day, and my hypo frequency dropped. Significantly. I also felt great. Full disclosure: When it came time to refeeding though, my insulin sensitivity dropped but that's another issue.

I'm 100% positive that low-carbing is a safer way for type 1s to live for the hypo issue alone, regardless of the myriad of other benefits such as improved A1C and lower weight.

Hypos are primarily caused by insulin overdose, i.e. over-corrections for ingested carbs. So higher carbs = more insulin = more insulin overdose. So, if you want to lower your hypo frequency, switch to a low-carb diet and thereby cut your insulin dose significantly, and thus your risk of insulin overdose as well. It's a fact. See: Dr Bernstein.

Also, the last sentence isn't true: fats last longer in the body, not carbs. Fat takes much longer to digest.

I can eat a couple slices of bacon and I'm satiated for the entire day until supper. I only eat two meals a day this way. If I ate a stack of pancakes and took a massive insulin dose I'd have to eat again in a few hours, or likely collapse. This is the law of small numbers at play.

To the OP: I would also say, ignore the high-carb mantra, they are wrong. My endo also doesn't believe in low-carbing and my A1C is much better than his. Sometimes the "experts" get it wrong. Just go shopping for a good nutritionist who understands ketosis and insulin-to-carb ratios and has read Dr Bernstein's book (and agrees with it). The bottom line is that your son's diet is your choice, not the doctor's, and sometimes doctors make mistakes and you have a right to get a second, third, fourth opinion. Or just reject their advice completely. He's wrong. People are now even thinking about switching to low-carb immediately during weaning. You don't need carbs to live (we do need a small amount of sugar, but you can get that from gluconeogenesis from protein). And it's not like you can 100% avoid them anyway.

An 11 year old type 1 can certainly experiment with ketosis. It's how humanity has lived since the beginning, periods of feast and famine resulting in us being able to not only survive, but thrive on ketones (from fat) as our primary fuel source. The brain actually prefers ketones and it makes your mind sharper. Eating excessive carbs and calories results in mental lethargy (think: after a big, heavy lunch at the office = no brain power for hours after, vs a small salad = go go go).

The goal of ideal type 1 control is a combination of three things:

a) a good A1C,
b) good sugar variance (A1C doesn't tell the whole story),
and
c) low insulin dose

You can only achieve all three at the same time by minimizing carbs. A low insulin dose has the side benefit of much lower hypo risk compared to a high-carb diet. To my mind it's literally dangerous to tell people to take more insulin. An insulin OD can kill you. This is just a fact. I crashed my car and woke up up-side down, bleeding, due to having too much insulin on board while driving. It came on too suddenly to do anything about it, as my vision blacked out suddenly (prior to the accident). My car and two others were totalled and the cops thought I must've been on drugs or booze. Nope, just insulin. They made me walk the line and touch my nose and breathe into a breathalyzer machine. "Ahh, you're a type 1, ok, it's not your fault but we're revoking your license until your doctor attests that you're under control". I tested myself right before turning the ignition. 4.7. This is the problem with insulin, it's both your friend and your enemy. So take it sparingly. And to do that, the best way is to avoid needing to take more of it. By eating less carbs and sugar. It is really that simple.

My last point is this: It's not your endocrinologist's responsibility to manage your son's diabetes, it's his.

Not even yours. You can help (especially with food selection* and prep), sure, but he needs to learn the hard way to do everything himself and know how his body works. Get him the Bernstein Diabetes Solution book and tell him to make it his Bible. The sooner you take responsibility for being pro-active and learning about how to manage the disease, the better.

*There are plenty of delicious recipes for low-carb foods that won't spike his sugars much (or at all). You can eat most of the yummiest foods on the planet with some alterations to reduce or remove carbs. Make spaghetti squash instead of spaghetti. Zucchini fettuccine (buy a slicer) is great too. Even butternut squash poutine is a wonderful, low-insulin required delight (though takes time to prepare enough of it).

I agree. I also feel certain that a lower carb diet is the safer way to manage both type 1 and type 2. It's so frustrating and sad that most HCPs don't see it that way and we are told a low carb diet is not recommended. And we are the one who has to live with the consequence. I also agree that that the responsibility to manage diabetes is with the patient. The doctors should be listening more how each patient want to manage their diabetes.
 
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Ssofa

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Thank you so much!! I really appreciate all the replies here. And my question has been fairly succinctly answered. - thanks hope4cure - The nurse seems to think I want to restrict his food by restricting carbs - or choosing a lower carb lifestyle - which is not what I want all. Things like insulin resistance are a real concern when you're looking at dosing for the next 60+ years.