T2 - NHS is Listening. At last!

[set-in-stone]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46363869
Good news indeed! I wish hubby had been prescribed this instead of the nonsense from the Doc and DN. Thank God we found this site and all the special folks here before any lasting damage could be done !

 

[Arab Horse]

Sadly I am a TOFI and when I cut the carbs despite losing one and a half stones (putting me on the edge of "critically underweight") it hasn't made much difference to me. I want to try the "Newcastle diet" but have opposition from everyone and fear that without any support I would find it very hard to do.

Suggestions to get and keep me motivated in the new year, please; I would be sensible and make sure I was eating one 200 calorie meal of veg as well as shakes or any other ideas gratefully accepted.

 

[bulkbiker]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46363869
Good news indeed! I wish hubby had been prescribed this instead of the nonsense from the Doc and DN. Thank God we found this site and all the special folks here before any lasting damage could be done !

Very interesting that you have posted your thread in the ketogenic diet section of the forum as we are slowly uncovering that the ND may well be another way of getting into ketosis albeit far less pleasant than simply cutting carbs...
Nice one!

 

[Guzzler]

It seems Isobel is the poster girl of ND and while we must all applaud her amazing u-turn and all the effort she must undoubtedly have put into her recovered health I would be interested in the stories of others who have successfully and not so successfully completed ND.

As an aside and just as a personal bugbear, the 'I did it so you can do it' as a generalisation really gets my goat. Just as LCHF, Keto, IF or bariatric surgery isn't suitable for some people we must add ND to the list.

 

[Member496333]

Am I alone in feeling that this approach seems to be dressing-up a low carbohydrate diet as a low calorie one? That is to say it appears to be yet another way of asserting that diabetes is all about calories, and just another finger in the ears “la la la” implicit denial that carbohydrate is the main driver of diabetes? Surely the main actor in this diet is the low carbohydrate content?

Perhaps I’m misreading or misinterpreting it. I guess I’m just sick and tired of “calories calories calories” when anyone who is informed on the subject must surely know that total calories is only a tiny part of the obesity/diabetes story. If it works it works but I’d question what happens when the patients stop the trial and start eating a “balanced diet”. My guess is that many will be diabetic again inside twelve months.

 

[Flora123]

Sadly I am a TOFI and when I cut the carbs despite losing one and a half stones (putting me on the edge of "critically underweight") it hasn't made much difference to me. I want to try the "Newcastle diet" but have opposition from everyone and fear that without any support I would find it very hard to do.

Suggestions to get and keep me motivated in the new year, please; I would be sensible and make sure I was eating one 200 calorie meal of veg as well as shakes or any other ideas gratefully accepted.

I too am a think T2 (apparently) but no tests have revealed I’m TOFI! Have you tried IF? Someone in this forum (thank you!!) suggested it to me and it does seem to sort of reset everything. Had a fast the other day for about 20 hrs andBG levels have been low since. I otherwise I follow Less thank 20g pd and it seems to be working....for now anyway.

 

[Guzzler]

I too am a think T2 (apparently) but no tests have revealed I’m TOFI! Have you tried IF? Someone in this forum (thank you!!) suggested it to me and it does seem to sort of reset everything. Had a fast the other day for about 20 hrs andBG levels have been low since. I otherwise I follow Less thank 20g pd and it seems to be working....for now anyway.

I don't think there is an actual test for TOFI, it's used as a descriptive. If you have always been thin or slim but still develope Pre Diabetes or Type 2 Diabetes then you can use the term TOFI.

 

[jjraak]

cheers Set in stone.

very interesting.
And the comments below on the beeb made me chuckle AND despair... at the range of knowledge out there...because that ignorance was me a few months back.

IF the thinking is low carbs is good...and it does seem to be,
i can see the wisdom of the ND.

But if it's mainly about the cost factor of what seems, by many reports to be a growing epidemic
wouldn't the NHS save a shed load of money if we just educated more people that cutting the carbs and tweaking their diet, could add years of trouble free (aka diabetes free) enjoyable living..?

All those things many on here know, but i'm just finding out now from here and the diet doctors infographic re glucose levels and better food choices, etc
(all be it too late for me, but not for so many others )

if we only check when problems suggest an issue, it seems to me we miss a great way to prevent / limit the disease itself by some sort of early screening program....my bloods suggested then confirmed the bad news, but i know many are PRE, diabetic,

Wouldn't such a screening make MORE people, pre diabetic, YES..and at an earlier stage..
The benefits would be...no need for meds at that point, just some good advice and a move to more regular monitoring.....perhaps ?

it seems to have worked for more then a good few on here, less carbs + more active = less meds and accompanying issues, seems a decent trade off, me thinks.

On that note the beebs closed comments but this one below still caught my eye..( and it's NOT me, before anyone asks...LoL )
(years since i was in a Gym, recently looked into joining one local, wonder if many would not have the nerve to even pop in ?
think i would have liked that to be a part of my desmonds course..so many seemed ill informed and if i am honest, a little lack lustre in appreciating the impact this disease COULD have...)

221. Posted byoldboy44
on1 Dec 2018 17:52
Given most towns of reasonable size have sports/pool complexes and staff all funded by the Taxpayer. What about these local amenities staging regular fitness classes -say 3 mornings a week - so those with Diabetes/lifestyle issues can be encouraged with others to improve their fitness/mobility levels.What about some robust Blue Sky thinking and action instead of lumbering the NHS yet again?

 

[Kailee56]

A bit sceptical. Calories in: Calories out. I’ve heard that before......
Kind of hard to live on 900 calories a day.
Would like to see the 1 and 2 year follow up.
How sustainable is the weight loss and remission after this type of program.

Why do I keep thinking about putting lipstick on a pig?

 

[Guzzler]

cheers Set in stone.

very interesting.
And the comments below on the beeb made me chuckle AND despair... at the range of knowledge out there...because that ignorance was me a few months back.

IF the thinking is low carbs is good...and it does seem to be,
i can see the wisdom of the ND.

But if it's mainly about the cost factor of what seems, by many reports to be a growing epidemic
wouldn't the NHS save a shed load of money if we just educated more people that cutting the carbs and tweaking their diet, could add years of trouble free (aka diabetes free) enjoyable living..?

All those things many on here know, but i'm just finding out now from here and the diet doctors infographic re glucose levels and better food choices, etc
(all be it too late for me, but not for so many others )

if we only check when problems suggest an issue, it seems to me we miss a great way to prevent / limit the disease itself by some sort of early screening program....my bloods suggested then confirmed the bad news, but i know many are PRE, diabetic,

Wouldn't such a screening make MORE people, pre diabetic, YES..and at an earlier stage..
The benefits would be...no need for meds at that point, just some good advice and a move to more regular monitoring.....perhaps ?

it seems to have worked for more then a good few on here, less carbs + more active = less meds and accompanying issues, seems a decent trade off, me thinks.

On that note the beebs closed comments but this one below still caught my eye..( and it's NOT me, before anyone asks...LoL )
(years since i was in a Gym, recently looked into joining one local, wonder if many would not have the nerve to even pop in ?
think i would have liked that to be a part of my desmonds course..so many seemed ill informed and if i am honest, a little lack lustre in appreciating the impact this disease COULD have...)

221. Posted byoldboy44
on1 Dec 2018 17:52
Given most towns of reasonable size have sports/pool complexes and staff all funded by the Taxpayer. What about these local amenities staging regular fitness classes -say 3 mornings a week - so those with Diabetes/lifestyle issues can be encouraged with others to improve their fitness/mobility levels.What about some robust Blue Sky thinking and action instead of lumbering the NHS yet again?

One point. Catching people at the Pre Diabetes level only means that you catch them before they have developed full blown T2 but at Pre D levels one has already developed insulin resistance and hyperinsulinemia. While they certainly are at risk and would be wise to take positive action the powers that be oftentimes ignore people until they require pharmaceutical intervention. It is a sad state of affairs.

 

[Arab Horse]

I was normal weight but poor eating, stressful job, lack of sleep etc although I was on my feet all day rushing around. Diagnosed on a free NHS medical with no symptoms despite a glucose of 18.4 and an HbA1c of 10.4. I had obviously been diabetic foe many years without knowing and I really think the secret of reversal is catching it early and changing your diet/lifestyle.

When I cut the carbs I lost one and three quarter stones and am now classed as borderline "critically underweight" but despite that my glucose is always high after eating (10 - 12mmol/L) even if I have 15 minutes on the treadmill.

Having seen the diet I have to stick to my son and his family have bought a meter and check their glucose levels once a week and have altered their diet although they did eat fairly healthily anyway.

 

[Member496333]

I was normal weight but poor eating, stressful job, lack of sleep etc although I was on my feet all day rushing around. Diagnosed on a free NHS medical with no symptoms despite a glucose of 18.4 and an HbA1c of 10.4. I had obviously been diabetic foe many years without knowing and I really think the secret of reversal is catching it early and changing your diet/lifestyle.

When I cut the carbs I lost one and three quarter stones and am now classed as borderline "critically underweight" but despite that my glucose is always high after eating (10 - 12mmol/L) even if I have 15 minutes on the treadmill.

Having seen the diet I have to stick to my son and his family have bought a meter and check their glucose levels once a week and have altered their diet although they did eat fairly healthily anyway.

Regarding body mass, if you’re low-carbing it’s important to satiate with fat. If you ensure you’re never hungry then your body will settle down to it’s natural bilological weight. I have a BMI of 18.6 but I don’t care as I’m never hungry, and I was always a very skinny child. As long as you’re satiating with fat, leptin will make sure you remain at a safe and stable weight for your biology

 

[bulkbiker]

I was normal weight but poor eating, stressful job, lack of sleep etc although I was on my feet all day rushing around. Diagnosed on a free NHS medical with no symptoms despite a glucose of 18.4 and an HbA1c of 10.4. I had obviously been diabetic foe many years without knowing and I really think the secret of reversal is catching it early and changing your diet/lifestyle.

When I cut the carbs I lost one and three quarter stones and am now classed as borderline "critically underweight" but despite that my glucose is always high after eating (10 - 12mmol/L) even if I have 15 minutes on the treadmill.

Having seen the diet I have to stick to my son and his family have bought a meter and check their glucose levels once a week and have altered their diet although they did eat fairly healthily anyway.

Have you ever had a c-peptide or fasting insulin test?

 

[ringi]

Sadly I am a TOFI and when I cut the carbs despite losing one and a half stones (putting me on the edge of "critically underweight") it hasn't made much difference to me. I want to try the "Newcastle diet" but have opposition from everyone and fear that without any support I would find it very hard to do.

With a low BMI the "Newcastle diet" will do nothing for you that low carb can't. Low carb is one of the best methods of losing body fat, while not losing muscles provided you eat enough.

First question, how do you know you don't have LADA not type2?

"critically underweight" is normally due to low "lean body mass" hence you need to increase your "Muscle Mass", therefore eat lots of protein (including the natural fat it comes with). Streak and eggs would be a group option. Also get down to the gym and do resistance training, ideally using the methods from the "body by science" book.

 

[Flora123]

I don't think there is an actual test for TOFI, it's used as a descriptive. If you have always been thin or slim but still develope Pre Diabetes or Type 2 Diabetes then you can use the term TOFI.

I was told you can be tested by scans for visceral fat in your body.

 

[Guzzler]

I was told you can be tested by scans for visceral fat in your body.

That is true but as the vast majority (meaning all but with the caveat of to what degree) of people diagnosed with T2 whatever their bodyweight will have fatty liver and fatty pancreas (not to mention excess fat laid around the heart and kidneys). It goes with the territory.

 

[kokhongw]

NHS only appears to be listening...they are still defending their calorie model. Hence the insistence that only their VLCD model to T2D remission is legit.

But we know that it is about excessive insulin. Any solution that target to lower insulin will give us a fair chance of remission...and some solutions happens to be more enjoyable than others.

 

[paulmh]

As an aside and just as a personal bugbear, the 'I did it so you can do it' as a generalisation really gets my goat. Just as LCHF, Keto, IF or bariatric surgery isn't suitable for some people we must add ND to the list.

I know next to nothing about the various approaches to nutrition, but I completely get you on the generalisations.

 

[Arab Horse]

I did have a liver scan, not the posh one, just the hand held scanner, and didn't have a fatty liver. I am 74 and waiting for my 2nd hip replacement so no gym for me but I do have a treadmill which I use regularly and I have horses so lots of mucking out etc so I am fairly active.

I do eat a lo calorie diet with lots of meat and eggs but my glucose is always high after eating even when very low carb. I know I can't cut my fod intake much as I am too thin to start with, just wondered if anyone else has the same problem and what rhey do.

 

[set-in-stone]

Very interesting that you have posted your thread in the ketogenic diet section of the forum as we are slowly uncovering that the ND may well be another way of getting into ketosis albeit far less pleasant than simply cutting carbs...
Nice one!

I have seen the light And I agree that many practitioners are treading lightly around the K word