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Tax on red meat and bacon??

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by derry60, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Other · Well-Known Member

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    Perfectly reasonable. I would query the statement "their current scientific appraisal" since most people in that category seem to be getting a corrupted or biassed message in the name of science that is spoon fed to them by the media at the moment. There is a definite political stance being taken with almost religious zeal, and this is what I find disturbing.
     
  2. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

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    I was aware that scientists are working on replacements for artificial fertilisers but I wasn't aware that governments are trying to phase out their use - could you provide a link? Thanks.
     
  3. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Expert

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    There will be no taxes on "Road Kill" or your neighbours cattle or sheep that wander on to your property...
     
  4. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a lot of science reporting doesn't make it easy for a layperson to get a balanced picture and I take your point about religious zeal. I was, however, talking about scientists who are working in the field and have a much better understanding than any layperson or media guru. If they change their behaviour as a result of their understanding, it would then be wrong to accuse them of bias because they've changed their behaviour.
     
  5. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    use of oil is what the governments are trying to phase out, in all its applications. Its deemed a fossil fuel. My point is that they have no alternative as far as i know, so they are swapping one problem - animals, for another - increased need for petrochemical fertilizers.
     
  6. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    How about you put the cattle and sheep back on the land, rotate the crops, allow fallowing and manage the soil instead of the shareholders? Just a thought.
     
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  7. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Oddly sometimes not but thy sometimes insist on feeding them vegan diets which of course is animal cruelty.
     
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  8. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    What about the and where we can't grow stuff but animals can graze quite comfortably.. that would be out of food production so overall productivity would fall? Moors, steep slopes rocky land... grass grows almost everywhere (apart obviously from extremes of temperature) so can be used as animal food.
     
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  9. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Sorry to go on about this but... they can have a pet dog but must not train it? How does that work when you are looking to house train a pup? Pfft!
     
  10. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Other · Well-Known Member

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    I think there are alternatives available but not as cheap to produce or as efficient, The so called chemical fertilizers are indeed derived from the distillate from the refactory process used to refine crude into its constituent parts. These will become less attractive as the oil reserves run out.

    The other artificial ones (as in man made) are derived from either atmospheric nitrogen or ammonia (oxidized urea of which there is a plentiful supply so long as man and animals inhabit the earth) There are also fertilizers derived from potash or guano, but these are again finite resources. Composting from recycling is also of interest, but we have not got our act together on that for it to be industrially viable. Of course there is still the sludge gulpers and cesspits that get sprayed onto the fields, usually on a nice hot sunny day.

    The organo phosphates were the answer to Monsanto's prayer for a while but are now heavily restricted due to health hazards,
     
  11. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    This is an interview with the lead author on that particular article

    http://www.oxfordtoday.ox.ac.uk/interviews/what-if-we-all-turned-vegan-2050

    it contains such gems as this

    " If the world adopted a vegan diet in the year 2050, in that single year it could cut greenhouse gas emissions by two thirds, save $1.5trillion in climate damages and healthcare-related expenditure, and reduce global mortality by 10 per cent, which means eight fewer million deaths from chronic diseases."

    Greenhouse gas emissions reduced by 2/3? interestingly he doesn't seem to say how.. all those non existent cow farts I guess...
     
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  12. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    he also says:
    so where does he think all this extra plant foods for humans will come from, if not from expanding our agricultural land into formerly forested areas? And his models make no allowance for the further deforestation affect on the climate due to needing more agricultural land to feed an even bigger population than we have now.

    (bolding mine)
     
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  13. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    If the plan is to use more land to grow more crops they had better be quick before it all disappears under new housing. :arghh:
     
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  14. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    That's OK, they can build the houses on flood plains ;)
     
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  15. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Other · Well-Known Member

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    Or under the rising sea levels.
     
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  16. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Other · Well-Known Member

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    They do.... Our council gave the go ahead to build on land next to the river that gets flooded each year, and a local estate agent was offering a free wetsuit for every applicant. Every home was sold, and they are now expanding it massively to cope with demand. There are no shops or facilities, but the estate will soon house nearly 15000 people. Most roads on the estate are one way only, so makes it difficult to visit. Apparently that deters boy racers, but in fact it encourages them more because they stand less chance of meeting themselves coming the other way. This large estate has only 2 entrance/exit junction onto the same main road to the motorway so all traffic ends up at the same place, and there is gridlock during term time. Again this is to deter through traffic and rat runs.

    Edit to add: the land they used belonged to a cattle farmer who used a traction engine to do his work. It was a lovely sight to see,
     
    #76 Oldvatr, Nov 8, 2018 at 1:12 PM
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  17. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Aye, people stuck with houses they can't sell, can't live in and for a while couldn't get insurance for (until the government stepped in to force insurers to provide cover (at an eexorbitant rate)) but still have to pay the mortgage on. I shouldn't have joked about it.
     
  18. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Ditto here. One estate on its own has 2,000 houses built or being built. (there are several others) The roads are designed exactly as you say, and spill out onto one of the 3 roads into our small market town. The developers are being forced to build a roundabout at the junction with the dual carriageway by-pass, meaning the road into the town has been closed for a month and will be closed for another 5 months. This has caused total nightmarish chaos on the other 2 roads to the town.

    But it doesn't matter because we are not a crop growing area, just a lot of sheep and cows, so it isn't taking up land for crop growing.
     
  19. Keith_Simpson

    Keith_Simpson Type 2 · Active Member

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    Perhaps they should tax fat but not lean meat [red or otherwise] which I eat as something that doesn't put my glucose levels up.
     
  20. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Tax fat? :arghh:
     
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