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The one show discussion

AdamJames said:
After thinking about it a bit last night and this morning, I've realised I'm now livid about that program and its presentation of diabetes, particularly surrounding the OGTT graph I took the screen grab of.

It's bizarre that the two dots were connected with a line. It's also bizarre that the three coloured bands in the background are the same all the way across - the good, medium and bad zones should be different for the start and end of the test.

Anyway that's just a minor thing which makes me seriously question the 'expert' who produced and interpreted that graph.

Far more importantly, this morning, all around Britain, not only lump-heads, but also decent intelligent people, will believe that "all you have to do to cure diabetes is go on a crash diet for 9 weeks." The BBC has told them so via medical experts in this programme.

But as far as I'm concerned all we really saw with Paul was a party trick.

Re the OGTT, he'd been in constant calorie deficit for a long time and had a fasting blood glucose of just over 4. I can do that with 3 days of the same calorie deficit or fasting. If I really put my mind to it I could probably get there in 24 hours. And his postprandial increment in an OGTT is pretty much the same as mine - it's 4mmol/l higher at 2 hours. So had I took my OGTT starting at 4 rather than 6, it's reasonable to expect I'd have been at about 8 rather than 10, 2 hours later. Either way the WHO classification system puts me and Paul in the same boat even as things stand.

So there's no reason to believe that there's any great difference between Paul and Me. But Paul's been told he's no longer diabetic and the nation has been told that he's no longer diabetic.

But what if he's like me? Someone losing sensation in his fingers and toes. Someone who only needs to live normally for a few days - go on a walk at the weekend and eat normally afterwards, gaining just a couple of pounds and getting fasting readings right back up in the 9s rather than 4s as a result? Someone who can't have a slice of normal toast without getting a damaging blood sugar spike? Someone who even needs to think carefully about how much milk he puts in his tea? Someone who gets a horrible blood sugar rise during an OGTT?

I think Paul has been lied to, and the nation has been lied to. Is this incompetence and misunderstanding on the part of the medical people in the program, or is this a deliberate distortion of data in order to back up a particular world-view?

I get really annoyed when the Newcastle Diet approach for treating T2 is misrepresented in a negative way, and now I'm equally annoyed that it's been misrepresented in a positive way.

What happened to basic competence with understanding numbers, presenting graphs in a meaningful way, and interpreting simple tests like an OGTT?

I think scientific inquiry is at its best when carried out by competent people with child-like wonder about how the universe works, but what we saw last night was possibly an inquiry carried out by incompetent people who are more interested in proving the world works the way they already thought it did.

Livid.

I need a cup of tea.
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I agree with you totally . It's actually pathetic that people would be misled this way. I have great admiration for anyone that has lost weight on a liquid VLC diet but it's no way to live your life or plan your future . Sending a message that's it's the best way to deal with diabetes long term is ridiculous
 
JohnEGreen said:
Thank you that was very informative I just wondered why you keep referring to him as Paul the priest but do not refer to any one else on the program by their profession or expanding on how him being a priest affects the diet or program, or outcome or in fact how it has any bearing on the discussion, your reply tells me more about you than him.
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Are you serious? Have I offended you? I thought your post was joking and I was going along with it.

Well anyway the simple answers are 1) He's the only participant whose job I can remember, and 2) I like saying / writing Paul the Priest, probably because there are two Ps in it and it has a nice ring to it.

This thread seems to be rife with people taking offence at things. I don't like that I've offended you, but I am going to stick to my principles and not apologise for it because I don't believe I've done anything wrong.
 
No offense taken or intended just a good job he was not a proctologist , don't you know I'm always tongue in cheek.

Now you come to mention the P P connection

Paul the Proctologist would not be so bad.:)
 
JohnEGreen said:
No offense taken or intended just a good job he was not a proctologist , don't you know I'm always tongue in cheek.

Now you come to mention the P P connection

Paul the Proctologist would not be so bad.:)
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And I thought I went too far with deadpan! I didn't pick up on that at all.

I was just in the middle of typing another post in a huff pointing out that other people had simply referred to him as "the priest" so presumably they offended you even more!

Anyway I'm glad that all is good.
 
AdamJames said:
One day a while ago I didn't have time to make a packed lunch and I dreaded driving out at lunch to get something. In the end I went to a greasy spoon cafe and had bacon, egg, mushrooms, and I know I shouldn't, but also a sausage and a slice of black pudding. The last two will have been carby, but at least I didn't end up in KFC.
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Give this recipe a try, good as a hot meal or cold the next day in a lunch box:
https://www.ditchthecarbs.com/grain-free-kfc/
 
JohnEGreen said:
No offense taken or intended just a good job he was not a proctologist , don't you know I'm always tongue in cheek.

Now you come to mention the P P connection

Paul the Proctologist would not be so bad.:)
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What was made a lot less of in the programme was that he was a married Roman Catholic priest with grandkids..which I found quite surprising..it was only because I had read something about the prog that I knew that was the case.
 
bulkbiker said:
What was made a lot less of in the programme was that he was a married Roman Catholic priest with grandkids..which I found quite surprising..it was only because I had read something about the prog that I knew that was the case.
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Im sure the kids of the church are pleased?
 
Rachox said:
Give this recipe a try, good as a hot meal
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bulkbiker said:
What was made a lot less of in the programme was that he was a married Roman Catholic priest with grandkids..which I found quite surprising..it was only because I had read something about the prog that I knew that was the case.
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Not that unusual now as many Anglican priests migrated to the Roman Catholic church a while back bringing their families with them.

I just came across this on the BBC web site regarding crash diets not sure if any one else came across it.

https://www.bbc.com/food/diets/cras...xperiment_test&intc_linkname=bbcone_em_low_c3

Rather long link I know

If you click on the link at the bottom of the page where is says expert advice on crash diets it takes you to a page with a fair bit of info.
 
JohnEGreen said:
Not that unusual now as many Anglican priests migrated to the Roman Catholic church a while back bringing their families with them.

I just came across this on the BBC web site regarding crash diets not sure if any one else came across it.

https://www.bbc.com/food/diets/cras...xperiment_test&intc_linkname=bbcone_em_low_c3

Rather long link I know

If you click on the link at the bottom of the page where is says expert advice on crash diets it takes you to a page with a fair bit of info.
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Apparently I'm very overweight and should be trying a 1200-1500 calorie diet.. wonder what it would have told the old me... lets try...



"total diet replacement program" which I'm guessing means starve..

I find it interesting that Ancels Keys' Minnesota Starvation Experiment fed the participants on just over 1500 calories a day and they had all sorts of mental and general health issues. Makes the ND even more worrying...
 
AdamJames said:
And, @Tannith, for as long as you keep ignoring my offer to send you some Rapilose, and ignoring my pledge to do the ND for 8 weeks if you get a good result in an OGTT, I'll have to assume you are not, in fact, remotely curious about the Newcastle Diet, its effects, and spreading the health benefits that you apparently strongly believe it has.

I really cannot comprehend your complete lack of response. You have repeatedly, in this thread and others, told people to do the ND, now finally you have someone saying they are willing to do it, but you ignore that.

I am at this point seriously suspicious of you. I hope you will prove me wrong.
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You have as good as called me a liar. Worse still you have as good as called Prof Taylor a liar when he tells us that losing fat from the liver and pancreas will reverse diabetes, and further has helped us all so much by making a breakthrough in discovering the cause of diabetes: "The body of research by Professor Roy Taylor now confirms his Twin Cycle Hypothesis – that Type 2 diabetes is caused by excess fat actually within both liver and pancreas." http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/articles/archive/2017/09/type2diabetesisreversible/
And you expect a response?!
 
Tannith said:
You have as good as called me a liar. Worse still you have as good as called Prof Taylor a liar when he tells us that losing fat from the liver and pancreas will reverse diabetes, and further has helped us all so much by making a breakthrough in discovering the cause of diabetes: "The body of research by Professor Roy Taylor now confirms his Twin Cycle Hypothesis – that Type 2 diabetes is caused by excess fat actually within both liver and pancreas." http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/articles/archive/2017/09/type2diabetesisreversible/
And you expect a response?!
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Said the University Press Office...
 
Tannith said:
You have as good as called me a liar. Worse still you have as good as called Prof Taylor a liar when he tells us that losing fat from the liver and pancreas will reverse diabetes, and further has helped us all so much by making a breakthrough in discovering the cause of diabetes: "The body of research by Professor Roy Taylor now confirms his Twin Cycle Hypothesis – that Type 2 diabetes is caused by excess fat actually within both liver and pancreas." http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/articles/archive/2017/09/type2diabetesisreversible/
And you expect a response?!
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I am sorry if the impression I gave you was that I think you are a liar. For the record, I don't think that.

What I do think is what I have tried, with some care, to write: That you are too quick to make general, sweeping statements, and that you don't analyse the science from Newcastle critically enough.

Please accept my apologies if I've been blunt enough to give you the impression I think you are a liar. I believe both you and Roy Taylor are totally sincere. That doesn't mean, for example, that you have found the best approach to solving a problem, nor that the approach works as well as you think it does. That's not calling you a liar, that's being cautious and looking at the big picture.

On a personal level, I am totally sincere in that I am not in a great place in terms of weight and blood sugar management at the moment, and that I am receptive to the idea of doing the ND, and all it would take is one small piece of data - an OGTT graph from someone who has done it - to persuade me to try.

The offer still stands. Please reconsider.
 
Cause?
I think something else caused the problem in the first place?
AND a proper maintenance diet has to succeed the ND afterwards!

I hope it doesn't slow down their metabolism, as does fasting that Prof Phinney is not in favour of because it's been confirmed as a problem for many and there is some suggestion the metabolism change is permanent.
regards
Derek


Tannith said:
You have as good as called me a liar. Worse still you have as good as called Prof Taylor a liar when he tells us that losing fat from the liver and pancreas will reverse diabetes, and further has helped us all so much by making a breakthrough in discovering the cause of diabetes: "The body of research by Professor Roy Taylor now confirms his Twin Cycle Hypothesis – that Type 2 diabetes is caused by excess fat actually within both liver and pancreas." http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/articles/archive/2017/09/type2diabetesisreversible/
And you expect a response?!
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FWIW, I think Paul will have the hardest time maintaining his weight loss and healthier eating regime - my dad is a Vicar, and that particular job entails an awful lot of being fed by other people. People who despite being told that you’re avoiding certain foods for health reasons, insist on pushing it on you as a “treat”. People who see shoving treat foods down your neck as an act of love, and who get terribly offended if you refuse or turn it down. It’s a real minefield.
 
bulkbiker said:
But that is simply incorrect.. his method of effectively starving people to lose weight is, as most people know, almost impossible to maintain afterwards as your metabolism slows and you start to regain. If however you lose weight whilst eating properly without severe restriction it becomes far easier to maintain. That is why I have such a huge problem with the ND. Prof Taylor is simply setting people up to fail in much the same way as the Biggest Loser program does. If you can't maintain the slimmer state then whilst you may have had the benefits for a few months in the long term its a bit pointless. Stop blaming the people for whom this is ineffective and look at the methodology which may be what is at fault.
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They said nothing on the BBC programme about metabolism starting to slow. Prof Taylor said that if you follow his diet with eating two thirds of what you ate before you will maintain the weight loss. I did this and not only maintained the weight loss but have lost a further couple of pounds since I finished the diet at the turn of the year! Its a bit of a sweeping statement that "most people know" that its almost impossible''' "as your metabolism slows..." People often do start to regain but have you any proof that its to do with their metabolism slowing - at least for any length of time - or is this an urban myth? Perhaps its just that they return to their former eating habits?
 
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