This just proves it all

[sdgray22]

Today I had an appointment with the nurse at my surgery, she is the person who deals with all diabetics and then one of the Drs has a clinic every three months. I have not been to one of the Clinics yet as I was only diagnosed beginning of January this year. At that time my fasting level was 12. I was told on my first appointment with her to take the Metformin 500mg ordinary tablet twice a day and eat a normal healthy diet and given a couple of very out of date leaflets to read. I spent a lot of time in the bathroom! I joined here and read all about carb counting, testing etc. I went back to her and she gave me 1 tablet Metformin SR which I actually seem able to tolerate. So this morning I booked on her instruction a 20 minute appointment to see her and I thought I would be receiving some good information and maybe even some more knowledge to arm me in this battle to lower levels. Well I went in sat down showed her my readings that in about 15 days have gone down to a fasting average of 9 with some 8s and even some 7s in the readings. She did not any time ask me what I was doing to get the readings down. Ah she says you are testing too much (I test twice daily at the moment as I am on a 80ish carb diet and know what to eat) once a day is enough she says - do it at different times of the day. Your fingertips will harden and when you eventually have to take insulin you will not be able to test easily as your fingers will be calloused.!!!!!! This is the senior practice nurse - God help us all!!. Ok she says we do not need to do anything else we will call you in 2 months for your blood test. I was in there 4 minutes where was the advice and help? Do they read any research ? My surgery will not prescribe test strips and do not advocate testing. Isn't it time something was done to get them to give out decent advice and help to newly diagnosed patients. I would say they are probably damaging people with their advice. :shock:
Sharon

 

[borofergie]

No probably about it, they are causing damage (and even early death) to thousands of diabetics.

In someways I can understand the "buy your own test strips" thing (which is an economic rather than a medical decision), but I cannot tolerate the willfully wrong advice.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

All too often local practices are just collecting 'QOF cash' and ticking box's unfortunately the Quality and Outcomes Framework doesn't seem to be doing the job it was designed for, when you offer anyone a bonus to do something they will do it but not necessarily as it was intended.

Practice nurses are never going to have the knowledge that a SDN has and the really sad thing is that if every diabetic saw a SDN at a hospital clinic as I did there would be a lot more well informed diabetics out there.

 

[xyzzy]

Isn't it time something was done to get them to give out decent advice and help to newly diagnosed patients. I would say they are probably damaging people with their advice. :shock:
Sharon

Makes you want to cry or scream or both doesn't it :x

The two things that make me the most angry are:

The way that many HCP's tend to treat everyone as a completely stupid idiot.
The way that many HCP's never try and learn more about their subject and just adopt a jobs worth attitude.

How we as a group can go about changing this is unclear imo but as someone wrote in a thread the other day 35000 members can't all be wrong.

What I also wonder is how many HCP's lurk in the background of this site reading what we write and ignoring its pretty obvious conclusions.

I would like to see this forum have a Sticky Thread named "HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS READ THIS" inside which are just two threads.

BAD EXPERIENCES

GOOD EXPERIENCES

At least that way there would be one central location where members could vent their spleens or praise their treatment as at the moment all of these kind of story's are just all spread around the place.

Anyone think that's a good idea?

 

[Grazer]

How we as a group can go about changing this is unclear imo but as someone wrote in a thread the other day 35000 members can't all be wrong.

Sadly, out of those 35000 we only have 3500 who have bothered signing the e-petition for free testing strips, despite constant reminders from admin, links on the site and reminders from people like me. Even worse when I know quite a few of the 3500 signatures have come from NON members, pushed by some of us to advertise to friends and colleagues. If members can't even be bothered to sign a simple on-line petition, what hope of any other action succeeding? :thumbdown:

 

[xyzzy]

Sadly, out of those 35000 we only have 3500 who have bothered signing the e-petition for free testing strips

I signed it the day I joined couldn't see any possible reason not to. It took all of couple of minutes to do.

 

[Grazer]

Well done xyzzy - perhaps the other 32,500 can have a go now. BTW, I and a number of others who have been members for a while spent a lot of time Off-Forum working the petition up so we're not asking much for a minute of other's time. I don't even have to pay for my own strips (slipped through the repeat prescription net) so not doing it out of self-interest, but made the effort to work on this anyway. So come on guys and gals!

 

[noblehead]

Sadly, out of those 35000 we only have 3500 who have bothered signing the e-petition for free testing strips, despite constant reminders from admin, links on the site and reminders from people like me. Even worse when I know quite a few of the 3500 signatures have come from NON members, pushed by some of us to advertise to friends and colleagues. If members can't even be bothered to sign a simple on-line petition, what hope of any other action succeeding? :thumbdown:

What you forget is that most of those 35,000 members have been and gone and never bother to look in again, in real terms the forum probably has less than a few hundred active members so getting 35000 signatures is a big ask!

 

[noblehead]

The two things that make me the most angry are:

The way that many HCP's tend to treat everyone as a completely stupid idiot.
The way that many HCP's never try and learn more about their subject and just adopt a jobs worth attitude.

There are as many who have had a good experience with HCP's than there is had bad ones, there's been many a discussion on the forum in the past and it's probably a 50/50 split........or there abouts! :think:

 

[Grazer]

The two things that make me the most angry are:

The way that many HCP's tend to treat everyone as a completely stupid idiot.
The way that many HCP's never try and learn more about their subject and just adopt a jobs worth attitude.

There are as many who have had a good experience with HCP's than there is had bad ones, there's been many a discussion on the forum in the past and it's probably a 50/50 split........or there abouts! :think:

In fairness Richard, looking at previous posts, I'd say that where people get to see specialists your assessment may be right. However, the majority ot T2s don't and get to see in-surgery doctors or practice nurses who'se knowledge is often less than adequate. I would say the vast majority of T2s in this category commenting on this forum tend to be unhappy. My own experience was "nice people, shame about the training"
Just my view.

 

[noblehead]

In fairness Richard, looking at previous posts, I'd say that where people get to see specialists your assessment may be right. However, the majority ot T2s don't and get to see in-surgery doctors or practice nurses who'se knowledge is often less than adequate. I would say the vast majority of T2s in this category commenting on this forum tend to be unhappy. My own experience was "nice people, shame about the training"
Just my view.

No the discussions did include type 2's as well, it would be wrong to think that all HCP's treat patients as idiots and adopt a jobs worth attitude as xyzzy suggests, like any profession there are good and there are bad ones around......just my opinion!

 

[xyzzy]

The two things that make me the most angry are:

The way that many HCP's tend to treat everyone as a completely stupid idiot.
The way that many HCP's never try and learn more about their subject and just adopt a jobs worth attitude.

There are as many who have had a good experience with HCP's than there is had bad ones, there's been many a discussion on the forum in the past and it's probably a 50/50 split........or there abouts! :think:

noblehead my statements say "many" not all and you yourself reckon 50%, in my book that's many.

I have had a relatively good experience with my DN so far. She is quite truthful with me about it all being down to money regarding drugs and test strips, doesn't accuse me of randomly sticking pins in my fingers for no reason and was genuinely interested and asked to keep the docs I took with me on my last visit when I told her how I was controlling my BG's and where I was taking my advice from (the Swedish Health service). I am quite happy with that however...

50% is not good enough by a long long way and some of the stories I've read on this forum from people with no particular axe to grind really do make me very very angry.

The worst two I can think of off the top of my head:

The 62 year old lady diagnosed as Type 1 who received no real advice on insulin and injecting who was then shouted at by her surgery and told to stop wasting their time when she phoned for advice.

or...

The newly diagnosed Type 2 lady who was told at her first appointment by the grinning and giggling DN and dietician duo who said that she'd "have to give up the doughnuts."

that is really really not on and if I was their employer I would have fired them all on the spot.

I simply think it would be good for HCP's to see what their customers think of them as is quite routinely done in other industry's and services. To do that a simple solution would be the sticky thread idea where people could post both good and bad aspects of their care.

 

[julia72]

Its sad to hear your poor support - I have had 1st class support all the way. I am type 2, and have been on various types of medication and insulin over the 9 years I have had it. I am now on Byetta and lantus and have really good control, have lost 6 stone in a year and feel good.
When I was first diagnosed our practice nurse spent ages going through the wheres and whys plus I was enrolled on a 3 day programme at the local hospital to learn about diabetis and diet etc. I have a regular 6 month checks and they are good quality visits where I always feel I have been given all the support I need.

 

[Camilla]

Appalling and damaging, that is the advice. Something will have to be done. Thank goodness for forums like these where we can spread the good news that we can control diabetes very well by eating low carb and testing frequently. What a sad thing that the medical profession is so far behind the times, so eager to prescribe tablets and just will not listen to or understand diabetics. We are hearing about inadequate or downright damaging advice being given far and wide.

I just ignore the whole lot of them and get on with controlling my diabetes very well by eating low carb.

 

[catherinecherub]

Isn't it time something was done to get them to give out decent advice and help to newly diagnosed patients. I would say they are probably damaging people with their advice. :shock:
Sharon

Makes you want to cry or scream or both doesn't it :x

The two things that make me the most angry are:

The way that many HCP's tend to treat everyone as a completely stupid idiot.
The way that many HCP's never try and learn more about their subject and just adopt a jobs worth attitude.

How we as a group can go about changing this is unclear imo but as someone wrote in a thread the other day 35000 members can't all be wrong.

What I also wonder is how many HCP's lurk in the background of this site reading what we write and ignoring its pretty obvious conclusions.

I would like to see this forum have a Sticky Thread named "HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS READ THIS" inside which are just two threads.

BAD EXPERIENCES

GOOD EXPERIENCES

At least that way there would be one central location where members could vent their spleens or praise their treatment as at the moment all of these kind of story's are just all spread around the place.

Anyone think that's a good idea?

There might be 35,000 members but how many are active?

Care is patchy for all chronic and acute illnesses and it is well known that it is a postcode lottery for your care. Check out cancer care, geriatric care.
Nurses are leaving the profession in droves and are being made redundant as well There is an acute shortage of dietitians and specialist nurses in all fields. Many nurses working in GP surgeries are expected to see patients with a wide variety of ailments and diseases and who can blame them if their advice is less than expected if they only have a few notes given to them as a guide to a particular condition. If they were specialised then they would be able to help more. If you are not sure whether the nurse is a specialist then ask to see her certificates as she cannot pretend to be something she is not, it is against codes of conduct.
There is a thread here that you might like to read.

In Praise of Health Care Professionals.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18183

 

[borofergie]

There are as many who have had a good experience with HCP's than there is had bad ones, there's been many a discussion on the forum in the past and it's probably a 50/50 split........or there abouts! :think:

Well you've been here much longer Nigel, but in my experience (over thet last 10 months) is that the ration of HCPs offering good to bad advice is nowhere near 50:50 (for T2 diabetics I think that 20:80 or even 10:90 would be much fairer).

[Of course this forum probably isn't representative - maybe there are lots of T2 diabetics that get execellent advice from their HCPs and never have to rely on the DUK community for support. Even if it were 50:50 in reality, it's not unusual for the "complainers" to shout much louder than the "praisers".]

In my opinion the problem is not usually with individual HCPs (who are mostly highly educated, conscientious and professional), but that the underlying "eat lots of starchy carbs" message is just wrong. We need to change the message, not shoot the messengers.

 

[xyzzy]

Appalling and damaging, that is the advice. Something will have to be done. Thank goodness for forums like these where we can spread the good news that we can control diabetes very well by eating low carb and testing frequently. What a sad thing that the medical profession is so far behind the times, so eager to prescribe tablets and just will not listen to or understand diabetics. We are hearing about inadequate or downright damaging advice being given far and wide.

I just ignore the whole lot of them and get on with controlling my diabetes very well by eating low carb.

Camilla I read all your posts with interest. You are even more angry about most things including now it seems the status quo attitude of MANY HCP's than me. :lol:

As to the other responses to this thread so far...

All I am asking for is a central point where people can post their good or bad experiences so that HCP's who do come and look at this site can easily see what we as their customers think is good or bad. I really don't see the problem. I now see that there is a thread "In Praise of Health Care Professionals." GREAT make it sticky!

All I'm saying is that in the interest of balance there should be an opposing thread "Criticism of Health Care Professionals." or whatever that should be sticky as well.

I get the economic climate thing and I even said I understood it by saying

She [my DN] is quite truthful with me about it all being down to money regarding drugs and test strips

Two points on the funding thing.

The two examples I gave in the previous post have nothing to do with resourcing and that is why they make me very very angry and want to fire the people concerned rather than just very angry that out healthcare system is under funded or inefficient or both and in terms of diabetic dietary information offers patently outdated advice.

Secondly and I'm sorry but out in my line of business (and most others) my clients (read patients) don't give one iota that I maybe under funded or under resourced that's my problem not theirs. All they want to see are results.

I've tacitly been told on this thread this morning that a 50% complaint rate is acceptable. If I had that level of complaints from my customer base I would be out of business tomorrow. It is not acceptable.

 

[sdgray22]

Well, I started this, not because I felt my practice nurse was unsympathetic or not that she is bad at her job. She is presumably a standard general nurse dealing with sore throats, cystitis and colds and rashes etc. No problem with that but why do they then say she is the person to deal with diabetics? She obviously is immensely out of date and misinformed. If I listened to her I would at present be on loads of drugs, eating lots of carbohydrates with each meal, not testing, (oh and she told me I can only eat 3 eggs a week because of cholesterol, I do not have high cholesterol and if you look into the British Heart Federation site you can actually eat as many as you like as long as you do not add other ingrediants to them). My problem is now that I just humour her, I do not believe she knows anything about diabetes. I as others here will just carry on doing my thing low carb diet and testing (at my expense not the NHS) and therefore controlling my life. As for Courses etc when I rang the Leicester Diabetic Clinic to enquire if I could go on a course (I had the form from the surgery) she said there were none in Leicestershire I could attend, and she would note my name and number and get back to me, that was a month ago, I am not holding my breath

Is Leicestershire a black hole for diabetics? - it seems so. All I can say is thank goodness for you lot.
Xyzzy I too ran a business with my husband for twenty years or more and to be honest anything over 1-2% complaints (because in the real world anybody complaining would not come back,)and we would have lost enough business to be losing a lot of money at that level . The problem is The Health Service is a monopoly (you have to see a Dr if you are really ill chances are a new age crystal fiend won't cure high blood pressure or a heart attack) , ticking boxes has become a major occupation. I am afraid it is all about money instead of care these days. I would say, despite I think my GP is reasonably efficient and quite caring he has no time, that since my diagnosis at the very beginning of January I have seen a Dr or Nurse for a sum total of less than 12 minutes, and had no up to date advice at all. Sorry but thats the truth, its a shame but there it is.
I do not even think it is worth saying anything to them, they would probably say I was a disruptive patient. I have told them it is my body, my disease and my perogative to deal with it how I feel fit.
Anyway, as with all things you have to take control of your own life and get on with it. I signed the petition when I joined by the way. Sharon :thumbup:

 

[sdgray22]

Sorry but i also just thought of this. The people (type 2s) who have what they think is good advice from their surgery, Dr Nurse etc will not be on this forum as they will not be aware there is a problem or that they have higher than we think they should have sugar levels. They are being told there levels are OK, or given another drug, and no need to test. its just the more shall we say inquisitive ones that dig deeper. Ignorance is bliss comes to mind, the wrong advice, will cause problems in the future, I feel.
Sharon

 

[borofergie]

She obviously is immensely out of date and misinformed. If I listened to her I would at present be on loads of drugs, eating lots of carbohydrates with each meal, not testing, (oh and she told me I can only eat 3 eggs a week because of cholesterol, I do not have high cholesterol and if you look into the British Heart Federation site you can actually eat as many as you like as long as you do not add other ingrediants to them).

Sigh. Reminds me of my appointment with an Dietician, when after glancing through my carefully compiled food diaries, she saw the word cheese mentioned once and said "you shouldn't eat too much cheese it's too high in fat".

My problem is now that I just humour her, I do not believe she knows anything about diabetes. I as others here will just carry on doing my thing low carb diet and testing (at my expense not the NHS) and therefore controlling my life.

Exactly the same here.

Imagine how many less informed diabetics are visiting that nurse, and getting exactly the wrong information, and going home and thinking that they are doing a good job of controlling their diabetes.

Is Leicestershire a black hole for diabetics? - it seems so. All I can say is thank goodness for you lot.

No. Judging from DUK, it appears to be a coutry wide problem.