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To statin or not to statin ... that is the question!

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Debzz_, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Please read with tongue in cheek, not to sound funny, but when I read "pharma sit round a table", it just didn't sound right.

    The history is interesting in that statins were first discovered in 1971 by a Japanese biochemist. It was never marketed because of adverse effects on tumours, muscle deterioration and the death of some of the laboratory dogs (always bad when that happens).

    Merck became interested and I suppose this is where they did sit round the table because their chief scientist and later CEO visited Japan many times and by 1976 had developed lovastatin.

    As much as the cost of these drugs may seem excessive, not so bad now they're out of patent, it's worth remembering that the life of a patent is 14 years and after filing they have to do all their testing before getting approval from the relevant bodies. No surprise that the cost of bringing any drug to being a commercial product is measured in billions, adequately compensated by the billions that they get in return and hopefully used to fund improvements and new drugs, while lining the pockets of the filthy rich.
     
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  2. Nicksu

    Nicksu Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My doctors were trying to put me on statins when I had a total cholesterol of 5.6 - they can keep them!
     
  3. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Hi, one cannot answer this question in a black and white manner! It all depends on your health condition which your medics are aware of. 20mgs of atorvastatin seems to be overegging it for my liking, particularly for a female. When I took atorvastatin last time a few years ago I got my doctor to give me half a 10mg tablet/day and it brought my total down to well below 4 (c.3.5) when my total was 5.8 unstatinified! Kendrick hedged his bets at one point in his long sections on what causes heart disease so even he has a get out of jail free card. D.
     
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  4. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    By the way the PCSK9's are unlikely to be used because of cost. D.
     
    #24 lindisfel, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:42 AM
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  5. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    What I can add is that exercise and diet has an effect on cholesterol for me, so possibly others.
    My highest figure was 6 (5.6 at diabetes diagnosis). When I was ignorantly on higher carb low fat, and excessive exercise I managed a drop to 4.6. On LCHF and exercise I am at 3.99 with a ratio of 2 to 1.

    It is a concern that these figures don't matter unless as a man I have had a cardiac event. I am only going to focus on triglycerides from this point on.
     
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  6. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    I am not wishing to rain on your parade, Liam, but do you consider those results to be good? This perhaps isn't the right thread to discuss.
     
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  7. Angela17376

    Angela17376 · Member

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    Hello,
    I face the same dilemma as OP. I have been given a prescription for Statins but sensed that my endocrinologist was reluctant to go down this road until my diabetes was effectively treated and because of the known side effects of statins which he informed me of. My cholesterol in Feb was 5.1. The doctor said it should be 4. LDL was 3.1 and HDL 1.3.
    What I would like to know is could a LCHF improve my readings? The HF part scares me because of the increase in saturated fats.
    Also, do plant stanol tablets make any difference?
    I am undecided about statins because of the negative feedback but at the same time I am not blase about the risk of CHD from high cholesterol levels. For now, my prescription remains in the kitchen drawer.
     
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  8. Liam1955

    Liam1955 Type 2 · Master

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    @Bluetit1802 - Hi :). I take the Statins because I like to think it is "protecting me" from Heart Disease? 3 out of 4 males in my Family have suffered (1 died) Heart Disease.
     
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  9. Debzz_

    Debzz_ Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    What also confuses me is a low carb diet where I'm having cheese and cream etc combined with trying to lower cholesterol How does that work ?!
     
  10. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    So, are you happy with that low HDL and high Trigs? And do you think they are protecting you from Heart Disease?
     
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  11. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Well until it is established that you having cheese and cream will raise your cholesterol, it isn't a problem.

    Personally, the more cheese and cream I eat, the better my cholesterol ratios seem to get.
    So, for me, cheese and cream seem to be improving my health (based on 3 years of successive Cholesterol testing, where every year I have cut carbs further, and increased saturated fats to compensate. And every year, my cholesterol ratios improve, while my overall cholesterol number remains slightly below average).

    I'm actually beginning to wonder, as I age, how I am going to increase my cholesterol, since higher cholesterol numbers seem to be protective in older women, and contribute to longevity, but with my optimum ratios, I don't see it as something to worry about.

    The one thing I REALLY don't want is low cholesterol, with high trigs and low HDL. Those would worry me. But eating LCHF has sorted those out perfectly.
     
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  12. Liam1955

    Liam1955 Type 2 · Master

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    @Brunneria - I know in general it should be the higher the HDL and the lower the LDL are considered better. And the Triglycerides should be less than 1.7
    I will be due for fasting blood work in April for my next Diabetic Review at the Hospital.
     
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  13. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    @Liam1955 Do you realise that statins have no affect on HDL or trigs at all? They do keep LDL low, however. HDL is affected by carbs. The less carbs you eat the higher your HDL will climb. Trigs can be helped by more Omega 3 and much reduced fructose.
     
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  14. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Trigs may also be raised by carb and alcohol intake. And lowered by reduction of same.
     
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  15. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I used to work in the tax office, so when I needed to phone up about a rebate today I never gave it a thought - but I found I was stumbling over my words, could not think of the right terms and got so embarrassed about it.
    It is down to taking Atorvastatin along with Metformin for about 5 weeks last November/December, and it isn't getting better.
    I can't do my Sudoku puzzles, which is annoying.
    Ironically, my second test results are rather good.
     
  16. Daphne917

    Daphne917 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Having suffered raised blood sugar, dizzy spells and sleep problems when taking them I will not take statins again.
     
  17. Totto

    Totto Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    How on earth is that supposed to work? How could a statin relieve your heart from any strain? My cardiologist have never mentioned statins, only the different options of blood thinning meds, and beta blockers.

    My GP offered me statins at the time of my diabetes diagnosis though, but I declined.
     
  18. MikeZ

    MikeZ Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    To be clear, when I say to put me down as anti-statin... I am only anti-statin for myself. I do not make the claim that statins are bad for everyone. However, I do believe that statins are over-prescribed and that anyone that is contemplating going on a statin regime should do their own research and decide for themselves.
     
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  19. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Most appear to ignore the fact of the few who produce a lot of ldl (going up to c.8.0) and some medication is necessary because they do have heart attacks. Even Kendrick suggest statins may stop strokes by their slight blood thinning properties because they are vit k antagonistic.
    Some medication causes an increase in ldl as a side effect, how does one compensate for such problems? One has to strike a balance between all these opposing views and medications and weigh them in the balance for ourself and those we care for.
    Gurus can lead us up gum trees! I get the distinct impression sometimes the 'story' has been edited to make a better point. D.
     
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  20. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    There are many other heart meds Toto, it all depends on ones heart condition. D.
     
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